News - Ubisoft makes plans to tackle PC piracy

[kalniel]

Why don't they just scrap DRM altogether? It doesn't work it preventing piracy and just punishes legit users. It's the reason I hardly buy PC games (and the reason lots of people download pirated copies, sometimes after buying the game so they don't have DRM on their PC) - I make efforts to secure my computer against malware - why should I allow just another form on my PC to play a game? If they want to cut down on piracy, scrap DRM!!! That's my opinion anyway.

Edit: I'd like opinions on this but why not implement some sort of USB 'key' which the game checks for. It could be a read-only mass storage device so no drivers, it could be all implemented into the game code so no third-party software.

See the topic dedicated to discussing this for more details, but essentially it can be shown that the proportion of people who pirate only because of DRM are actually insignificant (ditto pricing). The main reasons people pirate are:

- Denial of responsibility: factors apparently beyond individual's control come into play eg: urgent need for software
- Denial of injury or victim: no one suffers from one's actions
- Condemning the condemners: assuming those against a behaviour engage in their own kinds of unauthorised activities, or somehow deserve any damage they sustain eg: loss of earnings
- Appeal to higher loyalties: such as obtaining unauthorised material to help family member

As for DRM not preventing piracy at all, it's hard to imagine why the top business minds in the industry would pay for DRM if it didn't bring some kind of financial benefit in the cases they use it. Unless you think you know better than the experts

[aidanjt]

The main reasons people pirate are:

No, that's your personal assumptions. Many people disagree with those assertions.

As for DRM not preventing piracy at all, it's hard to imagine why the top business minds in the industry would pay for DRM if it didn't bring some kind of financial benefit in the cases they use it. Unless you think you know better than the experts

Is that the same way politicians think banning tools prevents violent crime?

[watercooled]

With all due respect, most of the people who pirate don't know about DRM - but out of the people who know about it a good deal pirate. Really though - how does it help? It turns me and several of my friend away from buying PC games and it doesn't prevent piracy - at all - since it's broken in hours of being released. Maybe someone from a game company could try explaining the logic behind that? There are a good few games I'd buy if they were DRM-free. Of course this is my opinion but I'm sure a fair few people agree with me - and if everyone knew about DRM (which they should, legally - no clear mention on the game box isn't good enough) far fewer would install it. After all who would install a game that had 'this game comes with some malware that uploads any files it sees fit, restricts access to hardware and software on your machine, is near impossible to remove and has ring 0 access to your system' wrote on the box? AFAIK though EA has done away with it and sales have gone up....

[kalniel]

No, that's your personal assumptions. Many people disagree with those assertions.

They're not mine, they come from the researchers listed in the original thread.

Is that the same way politicians think banning tools prevents violent crime?

I'm not sure many politicians would survive being at the top of such huge publically-listed companies as some of these games firms are.

With all due respect, most of the people who pirate don't know about DRM - but out of the people who know about it a good deal pirate.

I don't think that's the case at all.

Really though - how does it help? It turns me and several of my friend away from buying PC games and it doesn't prevent piracy - at all - since it's broken in hours of being released.

I can't speak for the heads of game companies, but they obviously have the data that suggests it's financially worthwhile or they'd change their minds. Personally speculating maybe it has an effect on pre-release piracy (the recent Atari games were not cracked until some weeks after original release), or maybe the proportion of people who risk using cracks is smaller than the proportion who would pirate without that risk - especially if there is an online element to the game.

There are a good few games I'd buy if they were DRM-free.

That's cool - and statements like that, as long as you don't pirate the game in the meantime, have a much larger effect on the bottom line and decisions a company take as to whether to include DRM or not.

AFAIK though EA has done away with it and sales have gone up....

Nope, EA still use DRM, though they are using different mechanisms depending on the market that the game is aimed at - sometimes it's just a simple disk based DRM for example.

[mehmeh]

Edit: I'd like opinions on this but why not implement some sort of USB 'key' which the game checks for. It could be a read-only mass storage device so no drivers, it could be all implemented into the game code so no third-party software.

USB Dongles like your describing have been around for years. Not sure who's using them these days, but alot of music software does. Stienberg (cubase fame) does for sure. Basically the key needs to be attached to the computer for the software to work. Problem is, it didnt take the usual groups long to figure out how to "emulate" the presence of the Dongle.

Maybe its something we'll start seeing more of as everyone has dozens of USB ports these days. Can't see it myself, people tend to lose stuff and its no more effective (read ineffective) than other measures. From my limited understanding, it might have some impact on the OS chioce of pirates in the short term, as most of the dongle cracks seem to be XP only and I would guess different versions would have to be written for different operating systems, hmm..

[shaithis]

it doesn't prevent piracy - at all - since it's broken in hours of being released. Maybe someone from a game company could try explaining the logic behind that?

I guess the software houses think (rightly or wrongly, I have no idea) that there is a large element of piracy that happens without the involvement of the internet. I.e. one person buys a game and his mate copies it.

[watercooled]

I'm not saying it would be completely effective - after all if you can access the game to play it then it's logical you can pirate it. I just wish games wouldn't use ring 0 DRM, after all it's all broken anyway so why not give it limited rights?

[kalniel]

I'm not saying it would be completely effective - after all if you can access the game to play it then it's logical you can pirate it. I just wish games wouldn't use ring 0 DRM, after all it's all broken anyway so why not give it limited rights?

Actually most DRMs don't use ring 0 for the most part - if they do it's just a small ID or something in there that's not really doing anything or just looks like it's in ring 0. It's the emulation tools like deamon tools that you've got to worry about as they do use ring 0 for a lot of stuff, as do many of the loaders and things that try and bypass DRM.

[watercooled]

I guess the software houses think (rightly or wrongly, I have no idea) that there is a large element of piracy that happens without the involvement of the internet. I.e. one person buys a game and his mate copies it.

That might have been true a few years ago but today it's easy to download massive files with broadband.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Agreed, TPM is the most feasible technology which could be used. But people shunned it due to privacy concerns. Which makes it all the more baffling that software vendors still try to reinforce their broken DRM with more aggressive broken DRM.


Well, it's difficult to qualify that with any tangible data, considering nobody has made a great PC game for more than 3 years.

really? so fallout 3 wasnt great?

[aidanjt]

really? so fallout 3 wasnt great?

It was good, I'll even give it very good, but it did lack greatness. It's best deeming quality, and indeed one of the significant reasons I bought it, was it's absence of DRM.

[dangel]

It was good, I'll even give it very good, but it did lack greatness. It's best deeming quality, and indeed one of the significant reasons I bought it, was it's absence of DRM.

Was great for me. But then that's greatness - highly subjective! But certainly in this case it's a highly rated game by critics and punters alike (the latter judging by sales).

Anyway this 'ere new DRM - it'll be broken and understood and rendered pointless just like everything else, meanwhile us legitimate punters will find it a pain in the arse as per usual. Can't see it'll bring anything new to the table..

[Infinite]

Protip: DS game piracy in Asia is unstoppable...

I been in HK nearly 6 weeks and the number of people I have seen playing a DS on public transport is uncountable, the number of people with legit DS games i have seen in them is zero. As a side note, im not even sure i have even seen a legit DS game for sale....

[pauldarkside]

If a person really wants your game they will buy it, even more so these days as everything seems to have an online multiplayer element

As a reformed PC user (my days of piracy are long behind me) I'd say from past experience that statement doesn't hold true - if I wanted something, I'd have downloaded it. Even for those games which did have a meaningful multiplayer component, it was easy enough to find alternative servers.

These days it seems almost manditory for a game to have some form of multiplayer, but I dare say for most titles, after the initial buzz has subsided, it's pretty worthless with poorly populated servers. All that's left then is the single player element - that doesn't necessarily offer enough incentive to spend one's cash. Further, not everyone's interested in multiplayer anyway.

Pirates are going to do their thing regardless of obstacles - they're probably not going to be customers anyway, so why aggravate those that do spend the money. In my mind that's the wrong issue to be focusing on. The bigger problem appears to be second-hand market and that's what publishers/developers can and should be tackling - include something substantial which can only be unlocked by the original purchaser (similar to Gears of War 2). Perhaps allowing second users to pay a fee to them to unlock. Either that, or continue to properly support the title with paid addons/content - incentivise people to buy and hold on to a game. Maybe not going as far as Burnout Paradise, but something similar.

Unless games move to some sort of non-cloneable server based format, it'll be a game of cat and mouse. Personally, I reckon it's best to work on areas which are more likely to yield results - the second hand market - rather than piracy. Work with customers, not against them.

[nightkhaos]

Digital Rights Management is not a problem. It's Intrustive DRM that is the problem.

Take GTAIV and Fallout 3 DLC, in order to play you need a Game for Windows Live Account installed, and your key is associated to that account. That is not intrusive, it doesn't prevent you from playing, and further more it means you can install on as many computers as you like.

However, let us look at EA's Spore's DRM. You can only install on 5 computers. What if you're like me and you format your computer every six months in order to keep the install clean? (Not so much with Windows 7 through)

Everyone has come to accept that if it says "Games for Windows Live" on the box you need to have an Internet Connection and Games for Windows Live account to activate your game, and then you're laughing. Just like everyone has accepted that you need to have the game CD in the drive to play most games.

Security always comes at the cost of usability, and for games, bad usability is not something you want, because you will lose customers, and not to pirates, they will downright refuse to use your software.

[watercooled]

Steam is good also - AFAIK it's not intrusive at all - all DRM is contained in the program and it doesn't mess round with system files, have ring 0 access or install and drivers. I just find it really hard to get my head around what's the point of DRM...