News - Valerie Singleton launches computers for the elderly

[lproven]

There is nothing "thin" about Alex, the applications run locally and the data is stored locally too.
(...)
When you've used Alex, you'll understand it better than the understanding you've got from the marketing material on the website and youtube videos

Well, until this thread, I'd never even heard of them, & I'm not going to go getting one now. We are still working hard on refining Eldy & its facilities and the last thing I'd want is to be accused of stealing other people's ideas. We are happy with our own ideas, thanks!

Yes, the gap between Eldy & the native GNOME desktop of Linux Mint is big, but that is true of any generic desktop OS. Mint is an attractive, easy, polished OS, and getting better fast - people could do a lot worse, and we regard the fact that machine does not using Micros~1 products as an active boon. Our hope is that some of our users will rapidly gain confidence and understanding of their new machines, and then they'll be able to "lose the training wheels" and thus emboldened learn to use the native OS underneath.

As for support from friends & family... I've been in PC software support for 21 years. I adopted MS Windows at version 2.01. I have fixed more home computers than I can count - plus many thousands of business ones - and one of the single most dangerous things that can happen to a computer is intervention from "a mate who knows about computers". If running Linux keeps helpful, well-meaning but incompetent mates from fiddling, that is a good thing! :-)

On the other hand, of course, anyone with a real clue about PCs and software will go "oh, yes, fine, this is Firefox 3.5 and OpenOffice running under GNOME... no problem." The sort of dabbler who goes "where's the big blue E thing, what's it called..." will probably only make it worse.

If they buy it and really don't like Eldy, well, they're still just PCs. It's perfectly possible to wipe the machine & put Windows 7 on it, or add RAM, a bigger hard disk or whatever you like. It won't be anywhere near as quick afterwards, though. Linux goes like stink on these machines - a full, current, high-end distro, not some cut-down thing. You need a rather better spec to get the best out of Windows: a proper Core2 Duo or Phenom, 2-3GB RAM, 3D card & so on...

[mikerr]

Touchscreens are easy and quite "intuitive"

..which is the very raison d'etre of these systems ?

Firstly, a cheap [touchscreen] is something like £400, more than doubling the cost of the system. The Italian programmers of Eldy sell an all-in-one touchscreen PC for it: it's €1000 or around £1000.

23" touchscreen for £277 @ lambda-tek
Whole computer (netbook) with touchscreen for £350 @ ebuyer

touchscreens are not very accurate & require regular recalibration.

Even if that were true nowadays (it isn't), you hardly need great accuracy for the big button interface that these systems use....

But thirdly and mostly, buying a train ticket is very different from sitting surfing the web. The human arm tires very quickly when operated holding it up: 5-10min to fatigue, cramps and pain, and that's in a healthy fit young adult. You simply cannot use one for hours on end; human physiology does not permit it. You could lay it on the desktop, but then, you get neck & shoulder pain looking down.

Lol, mice are fiddly and hard to use for pensioner's fat fingers,
and the wrist movement is often difficult & painful for those with athritis

By contrast pressing the screen every now and again requires very little precision or effort.

Not bashing any product (don't take it personally!), just offering an opinion.

[peterb]

I'm not sure why anyone would think this is patronising. It appears to be a fully fledged PC, with a GUI customised for a particular age group, whose eyesight may not be that good, and who may not have had previous computer experience.

The USP are the training video, and if it has been market tested with the target user group, and meets the criteria that it set out to achieve, and as a result gets a group that may not be taking advantage of the internet then that is excellent. It is relatively expensive for what it is, but I guess that covers the tutorial material and the bespoke GUI.

Could it be done for less by a Hexite? Yes it could, but the target market may not have a friendly Hexite to do the customisation, or provide the support.

As for "Not being Microsoft Compatable" - So what? There are plenty of Web browsers and E mail clients available for non MS operating systems, and many open source products that do an equally good (or better) job as the popular MS apps.

It is of particular interest to me because I have been looking at building a machine for my mother-in-law. All she really needs is web browsing and e mail, and my solution will probably be a mini-itx machine with a Linux distro with Firefox and Thunderbird (or evolution), and a base model printer. That will be fine for her, because I will be there for support, should it be needed. But if I wasn't particularly computer literate, I might have looked at this as a potential solution.

[Saracen]

..which is the very raison d'etre of these systems ?

Even if that were true nowadays (it isn't), you hardly need great accuracy for the big button interface that these systems use....



Lol, mice are fiddly and hard to use for pensioner's fat fingers,
and the wrist movement is often difficult & painful for those with athritis

By contrast pressing the screen every now and again requires very little precision or effort.

Not bashing any product (don't take it personally!), just offering an opinion.

Well, speaking as someone that does suffer from arthritis, quite badly, and as someone with extensive experience of touchscreens, I'd prefer the mouse by FAR.

Of course, that may not be true for all arthritis suffers, but it is for me. The movement required o operate a mouse, or even a keyboard, is IMHO far less than the strain of reaching out to operate even simple push-button interfaces on screens for extended periods.

What I don't agree with lproven on, though, is that human physiology simply won't allow such systems to be used for extensive periods. Why? Ask a checkout operator in just about any major supermarket. And God knows, I've done enough compliance testing of those systems to certify the legality for trading to have had hundreds of hours of experience doing it. I do not envy checkout operators their job, as personally, I find them far more uncomfortable to use for extended periods than the keyboard systems they typically replaced.

Touchscreens are, IMHO, fine for very simple interfaces where it's simply a matter of negotiating a series of button selections from a limited range (and supermarket checkouts do fall into that category, albeit with some number of menu levels, and usually with some non-touch buttons too). And they can work well with handhelds. But for a large, fixed position screen and where complex interaction can be required, they're very problematic. That, I certainly do agree with lproven about.

Unless I miss my guess, he's saying this interface is targeted at users with a specific set of challenges, not least might be a certain level of computer phobia. But if a user progresses beyond that, the hardware underneath provides a reasonable hardware basis for a fully fledged PC. And it also needs to be borne in mind that the type of thing the target users are going to be doing with their machines, even if they do go beyond simple interfaces, isn't going to be using for for a development platform, or a CAD workstation or even a high-end gaming machine. The hardware looks to me to be perfectly adequate for running some flavour of Windows, an Office OS, web browser and so forth, which is probably typical of the maximum level of sophistication that'll be needed.

And as for the price, I guess the market will answer that. Not everybody is heavily price conscious. Even where it's a factor, it won't always be high up the list. The compete product, the hardware, the interface, the customised usability, the service and backup you might get, they all blend together to comprise the product you pay for. And if the confidence gained from a relatively simplistic interface gets people connected and online where a full Windows or Linux desktop would be intimidating, then it may well be very good value for the type of person it;s aimed at. I certainly know a fair few people that simply go blank, usually with bewilderment or fear, when presented with a standard desktop. The first question is usually "so what do I do now?" If they can be guided through that, introduced gently and allowed to gain confidence, then that's a valuable role to play.

[er612]

My 82yr old grandmother desperately wants a computer. This is exactly what she needs. I live in the US but I am only finding delivery to UK addresses. Please advise on how to purchase. Thank you.