And this is why I get so pissed off with people like you.Originally Posted by bobharvey
He didn't say it was.
He said, the training they were given was that they didn't get viruses because they where 64bit. That is a crap load of bollocks right there.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
Hey,
I can see your point but people do some to rate apple support highly and expect them to sort out any issue for them. People sign up for apple care and I assume they expect for the price they pay for apple care malicious software removal would be part of that service.
I dont know of many people who have a similar support package with microsoft.
microsoft provide microsoft security essentials for home and small business (up to ten computers)
microsoft provide malicious software removal tool as well as microsoft security scanner.
apple provides very basic protection against some malicious software via certain methods. if you download certain malware on a mac it will be blocked by apple. if you run the same file from a usb stick its not blocked by apple.
I feel that people should be aware of malicious software on all operating systems. multiplatform malware
operating systems with less market share should stop making up BS about how secure their operating systems are. people can write malicious software for any platform they wish.
antivirus software isnt 100% but the alternatives are hard to understand for non technical users. the alternitives im talking about are the following: host intrusion protection, behaviour blocker, sandbox.
Last edited by lodore; 21-05-2011 at 05:24 PM.
Seems like every time I browse this forum, I'm met with you expressing your rabid dislike of Apple through overblown claims you can't substantiate. Can't you just drop it? You're every bit as bad as the Apple 'faithful'.
*see usertitle
scaryjim (23-05-2011)
Microsoft provide an operating system, Apple provide a complete package, there is a difference.
Microsoft released tools like MSE because many many users lacked even basic levels of protection and they have a reasonable channel (Windows Update) through which they could just offer to install it.
Tbh, Apple computers should be treated like your TV or dishwasher, in that Apple should provide all necessary help except where its due to incorrect use and user damage.
It maybe an Apple computer, however if it's personal and its a computer then it's a PC, those adverts drive me nuts.
But how long did it take Microsoft to release that? 20 or so years!
Apple will bring out a fix, there is no doubt on that, they usually say don't confirm or deny when they are looking into things and do not have a full fix themselves to it yet.
Same thing with location services, do not confirm or deny, they then brought out 4.3.3 with a full fix to that.
Well that 20 years is a bit short, you know they've been around longer than that, so lets call its 33 years. But the thing is 33 years ago they had no viruses or nasties to avoid the ****tards who like to claim its only viruses which are problematic, so lets look at who had the first one? Oh Apple did, because they had a large market share. Wow.
Then fast forward 10 years the situation is reversed. Microsoft's 95 product is a gaping bag of holy dung, but you know what, MAC OS is worse in so many ways. Meanwhile MS are pushing people on to an NT based OS, this is some 5 years before OSX comes along which kinda admitted MAC OS was a turd and replaced it. After Microsoft have finally got its user base kick and screaming onto XP, which has the options for security settings most of which are disabled in the name of backwards compatibility and migration, some people aren't updating their computers, if you've a 56k or whatever the COST of applying a patch was significant. So plenty of users don't bother. Thankfully a mostly harmless thing comes along called blaster. This wakes up, not just Microsoft, but the ISPs, the smaller enterprises and the home user. Their PC just restarts. They can't get any real work done, its not hard to remove if you've an ounce of skill, but the point is it made people realise that the whole function of their computer can be destroyed. XP SP2 comes along which on paper feature list has much better security features than OSX.
NT is a better kernel than BSD. There I said it. It should be, it was made by the VAX people who were ahead of everyone else. It then got crapped on by the explorer team, concepts such as ActiveX and DCOM just make you giggle when you think about it. But at its core it was better. Ok that is akin to saying its a much stronger bunker, but the bunker is surrounded by 100tons of high explosive. That is the point I'm trying to make thou, kernel better, package as a whole worse. But only because of how useful the package as a whole was....
However there is a reason I mention it. It was a wake up to ALL developers that they have to take responsibility, they can't just subjugate everything to a kernel or logon manager and expect security which plenty where doing.
From SP2 days onwards people realised this, except Apple, who put out frankly sickening adverts which to someone who actually understands software are amusingly ironic. The fanboys however weren't.
Meanwhile Microsoft kept hurting useability in the form of Vista, and again in 7, the point is thou that 7 is now a rediculasly hard to crack OS, its like an onion of layers. This is true whilst its maintained its large attack space. Every peice of code you have on your PC you could argue increases the attack space. OSX has sod all apps, and very few common combinations. As such its harder to hit, but only due to obscurity.
So the point I'm making is that your spouting such stupidity by suggesting that Apple shouldn't learn the lessons of Microsoft. EVERYONE has to learn the lesson of the first couple of years of this millennium, because we were ALL pretty much asleep.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
And....breathe....
Apple does normally patch their software, even if it does take a while. The difference with this particular case, is that it's not an inherent flaw in the operating system or in any of their software. As far as Apple is concerned, the users downloaded the application, entered their admin password and were effectively socially engineered. I don't agree with Apple's standpoint, but I can understand their logic.
Remember Pwn2Own a few years ago? Users gave up trying to assault the OS directly on day one. On day two, they were allowed to use web browsers and it turned out that Safari crumpled like a sheet of paper. This happened in both 2007 and 2008, in the latter year, no one even bothered to try on day 1, where no user intervention was allowed. 2008 day 2, the laptops fell due to malicious code on a website - again, Safari's fault. The MacBook actually fell before Windows did in that instance.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/m...ker-jungle/173
http://www.networkworld.com/news/200...-pits-mac.html
The point I'm trying to make is that the vast number of bugs on both OS X and Windows these days are down to either people being dim, or web connected applications being buggy. If you type "zero-day exploit OS X" into Google, I couldn't find one that wasn't Safari, Flash, QuickTime, Java, Skype, etc.
As for Microsoft, all you need these days is MSE, Defender, the built in firewall and an ounce of common sense (a good ad blocker will save most inept web users). MSE was tested to be just as good as plenty of paid-for AV programs and it's very lightweight. That said, it took Microsoft until 2009 to get rid of autorun.
Actually, Microsoft had an AV program that ran in DOS a long time ago.
Given that abundance of AV software in the market, there is no reason for Microsoft to release it at all, except for the fact that so many people are suffering from a Clue deficiency.
the problem is that the majority of users believe that macs aren't attacked by malware and thus don't take as much care as windows users. twice bitten and all that and a bit of a generalisation but that's the problem!
Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!
This isn't really a question of "Will Apple patch OSX or provide free security tools". It's should apple provide telephone technical support for removing user installed malware?
Of course they shouldn't, it's crazy to expect them too. Microsoft wouldn't either - at best they would say "go and download/user windows defender", they wouldn't sit there and walk a user through removing some malicious software step by step.
This is yet another non-story that is being over hyped and taken out of context simply to attack Apple.
edit: So another question is..should apple provide users with anti malware ala windows defender? No I don't think so..from one point of view its good for the end user, so they should do it. On the other hand, it would be a PR disaster for them. Releasing such a software package would mean admitting that the OS is vulnerable (which of course it is), causing said PR disaster. For Microsoft it was the opposite case - everyone already knew how vulnerable Windows was, so releasing Defender was a PR boost for them.
Last edited by Spud1; 22-05-2011 at 10:01 PM.
So, Apple's out is that the malware is installed by the user and not a fault with the OS as such, so, the problem is the Mac user and not the system...
Havent the rest of us been saying that for years?
scaryjim (23-05-2011)
Non story? Apple's mantra for years has been about just working and lack of virus problems....and when one comes along they try and sweep it under the carpet? I'd love it if malware wasn't a problem, but it is, and shall continue to be, and now Macs aren't escaping attention. It's not attacking Apple users, just the blinkered approach of the manufacturer that doesn't want to admit they are now being attacked like Windows is...
Old puter - still good enuff till I save some pennies!
There are thousands of worms/trojans/malware apps out there targeting OSX. Have been for years, and their existence has never been officially denied. Apple "Geniuses" are nothing of the sort and their word can never be taken to be trueThere is a general view that OSX doesn't get infected, although as we know in reality there are just less infections proportionally, largely because of the smaller user base and the more locked down nature of the system.
The angle most press seem to be taking is the "apple isn't helping their users" one, which is rather unfair considering the nature of this particular piece of malware and how other publishers would respond to the same issue. Its not that Apple are denying that this malware is an issue, it's just that they are not wanting to spend thousands of $ fixing problems caused by user errors. That's the point i'm making here
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