News - Windows 8 gets ribbon interface

[jim]

Erm?

file:///C:/

[directhex]

Fallen right into the trap of the perspective of a power user - most people don't known about almost any keyboard shortcuts because it's hidden functionality just like the other items you described. For power users there are now over 200 direct keyboard shortcuts but most people won't ever use them but you and I can

People marvel at me showing them Win+E to open explorer!

That blog you're telling everyone to read?

It reports that 32% of people using Explorer accomplish actions via keyboard shortcuts. 55% use context (right-click menus). Almost 90% of Explorer users are using the keyboard or context menu.

It's not power users doing that stuff. It's everyone with an IQ above 85.

[TheAnimus]

That blog you're telling everyone to read?

It reports that 32% of people using Explorer accomplish actions via keyboard shortcuts. 55% use context (right-click menus). Almost 90% of Explorer users are using the keyboard or context menu.

It's not power users doing that stuff. It's everyone with an IQ above 85.

True, but that is not an argument against the ribbon at all, if anything its an argument of how bad the current interface is!

For a start off how would a new user find the command keys?, this interface also brings more in.

So new users are better keyboarded, and pro users are better keyboarded.

Screen real estate, all users get more rows by default than win7 by default, those who collapse the ribbon get more than current users, widescreen users get to use the preview pain space but not the ribbon vertically, well thats a half good thing!

The quick pin action list is bloody handy thou, and the programming model (i'm assuming they'll expose it) of been able to add more features ala say Picture editing in word, I think will make a great UI for even the pro users who seldom use that tool.

Can't see what all the fuss is about, except its expanded by default, but those people will get their action resolved by just double clicking it, and closing the window (to save settings) less time than their rants on the internets.....

Newbs and Touch users will be greatly benefitting from this, and also I think once 3rd party apps have adopted this it will be a much cleaner state of play than the current context menu is.

[directhex]

True, but that is not an argument against the ribbon at all, if anything its an argument of how bad the current interface is!

Agreed. So let's analyse.



These top 10 commands cover 81% of Explorer usage. Every other action Explorer can do covers less than 20% of actual real-world usage.



Only 2 of those top 10 commands has a clickybutton. Clearly this is the failure condition. Let's make a new interface which focuses on those ten actions that covers 81% of use, right?



Explain how the first two analyses leads to this design. More than 50% of the space in this bar is for actions which are rarely used. Of the ten actions they highlight, their positioning and sizing is random and has no bearing on how frequently they're used - e.g. "New Item" is 6x more used than "New Folder", but is half the size.

Actually, it's worse than that. "the top 10 commands represent 81.8% of total usage" - plus "The commands that make up 84% of what customers do in Explorer are now all available on this one tab" means they decided to use up 50% of the default toolbar space on actions which are only used 2% of the time.

That's what people are criticizing - the cognitive dissonance between "our users use these ten commands" and "look at our new invert selection button".

[EvanJackPenn]

It reports that 32% of people using Explorer accomplish actions via keyboard shortcuts. 55% use context (right-click menus). Almost 90% of Explorer users are using the keyboard or context menu.

That is assuming those 32% are mutally exclusive to the 55%. In reality, that 55% is likely to include the majority of the keyboard shortcut users. Jus' sayin'


I'm still running XP here and I'm looking at getting 7 for my new build (see my siggy ) but that's around Christmas time or Q1 of 2012. I'd hate to pay out a £100 license to use for 10 months before Windows 8 comes out. Because I'm sick of being the one who runs an out of date OS. There's not even a vista PC in this hosue! :O

[cameronlite]

I'm still running XP here and I'm looking at getting 7 for my new build (see my siggy ) but that's around Christmas time or Q1 of 2012. I'd hate to pay out a £100 license to use for 10 months before Windows 8 comes out. Because I'm sick of being the one who runs an out of date OS. There's not even a vista PC in this hosue! :O

Grab your pitchforks guys...

[TheAnimus]

Agreed. So let's analyse.
...
Explain how the first two analyses leads to this design. More than 50% of the space in this bar is for actions which are rarely used. Of the ten actions they highlight, their positioning and sizing is random and has no bearing on how frequently they're used - e.g. "New Item" is 6x more used than "New Folder", but is half the size.

Actually, it's worse than that. "the top 10 commands represent 81.8% of total usage" - plus "The commands that make up 84% of what customers do in Explorer are now all available on this one tab" means they decided to use up 50% of the default toolbar space on actions which are only used 2% of the time.

That's what people are criticizing - the cognitive dissonance between "our users use these ten commands" and "look at our new invert selection button".

There comes a question of why are so many people ignoring certain features?

I agree the New Item been less prominant than New Folder, but hey, this isn't the final cut yet!

Some of the features, such as a the copy path are really rather handy, but seldom used at present, I think there is a disconnect between the figures they have published showing what is used, and what some analysists THINK people WANT to use.

The example I would give is seat belts, so few people used them at first they were neglected, but thanks to public awareness AND the on going engineering making them more comfortable, more people started using them. The legislation was behind the innovation. Ok, its not a good example, but its 16:15 here and I'm tired, and its the best I can do...

What I'm trying to say is that it would be folly to say well having 82% of our users copying and pasting is job done!

[dangel]

It's not power users doing that stuff. It's everyone with an IQ above 85.

Lies and damn statistics eh?

IQ has very little to do with it - although it makes a good punchline no doubt. Hidden functionality is bad period. Not as funny though, sorry.

It'd certainly be interesting to see stats once the ribbon is introduced and whether this has a tangible effect on what gets used by comparison - as has been said, much of how people do things can be led by what's there now and I don't know if the stats are exclusive either. In any case I encourage people to comment on the blog site as they do seem to be taking note of suggestions/feedback.

[mmh]

essentially anyone who has figured out keyboard shortcuts has figured out that its simpler and quicker than moving the mouse to these buttons :- its more efficient, you don't have to move your mouse and probably not even your fingers on the keyboard.

So its better for touch screen users - is that why they did it in office? because what the world needs is people typing on touch screens into word processing programs... really?

maybe there should be a split between OS's so that touchscreen can keep thier crappy features and excesses of buttons, and those of us that actually work on PC's can use things the way that theyre meant to be used? - infact, isnt it iOS that runs on Ipads and the like? if apple can see the light, surely microsoft can see that they are 2 entirely different markets and PC users don't need the shiny button rubbish that touchscreen users do?

I'm one of the groups that now fails to be able to find anything of use in the new office 2007+ menu systems as it just doesnt follow any of the same logic that I've used for the past 15 years!

[dangel]

essentially anyone who has figured out keyboard shortcuts has figured out that its simpler and quicker than moving the mouse to these buttons :- its more efficient, you don't have to move your mouse and probably not even your fingers on the keyboard.

...or the fact that the buttons just aren't there and the menus are hidden in Windows 7 means you have little choice. The current UI pushes users down a certain road to a large degree. I wholeheartedly agree it's quicker but currently if you want just to use a mouse you're having to use context menus pretty much all of the time.

So its better for touch screen users - is that why they did it in office? because what the world needs is people typing on touch screens into word processing programs... really?

I think that's a fallacy - they did it in office (and blogged about it) as a result of so many people being unable to find anything in the myriad of menus hidden away. For me the ribbon was a massive improvement in this area (although i'm not claiming it's perfect by any means). Remember the horror of when they tried menus-what-hid-infrequently-used-items? That was unbelievably annoying.

maybe there should be a split between OS's so that touchscreen can keep thier crappy features and excesses of buttons, and those of us that actually work on PC's can use things the way that they're meant to be used? - infact, isnt it iOS that runs on Ipads and the like? if apple can see the light, surely microsoft can see that they are 2 entirely different markets and PC users don't need the shiny button rubbish that touchscreen users do?

I think there already is - this is not a touch interface, that has already been shown.

I'm one of the groups that now fails to be able to find anything of use in the new office 2007+ menu systems as it just doesnt follow any of the same logic that I've used for the past 15 years!

Understandable - I was initially sceptical and found it difficult for a short while until I got used to it. For 90% of the time i can find what I want right away (or it actually contextually changes so that I do) but there is always the odd item that's harder to find. I think they said that Word had 1500 odd features and that exposing all of them is extremely difficult if not impossible.

[crossy]

That blog you're telling everyone to read? It reports that 32% of people using Explorer accomplish actions via keyboard shortcuts. 55% use context (right-click menus). Almost 90% of Explorer users are using the keyboard or context menu. It's not power users doing that stuff. It's everyone with an IQ above 85.

That being the case, then why the heck aren't MS doing something innovative and dispensing with the menu's - replace them with right-click and (optional!) keyboard shortcuts? TBH, that's more intuitive than the stupid "ribbon" - I can't believe that anyone would have much of a problem with the idea that one button is "select" and the other is "action".

No one seems to have too much trouble with the idea of selecting items and then doing long-press to get a context menu on their mobiles - so why not carry that idea across for the tablet edition of Win8? Again, no need for any menu really. I'm in agreement with the folks that are decrying the loss of valuable screen "real estate" (not everyone uses a massive monitor) to clutter, more so if your Win8 device is a tablet (<10" screen).

And I'm sure that I'm not the only person who's got into the sloppy habit of using the right-click as a combined select and context menu action.

I thought it'd be too good to last and MS would find someway to pour some Office 2007 UI s**te into Windows8. Still, I suppose there will be a way to turn it all off...

(As you can probably guess, I'm no fan of the Office2007+ "way" - which is the main reason that I switched to LibreOffice at home).

[usxhe190]

I keep going back and forth with the ribbon. It is initutive in some areas but really bad in other areas.

To me, it is just like trying to learn again and I really don't see how it is better than the old one.

To me, it is the same thing - i.e. learn where the buttons are located so I can do what I need to do (whether they are buttons are now bigger or smaller etc).

Right now, the conclusion for me is that I don't like the ribbon.

However, this file system for MS is still infinitely better than the file system in Apple.

[dangel]

What I don't understand is how you think anyone is taking something away from you? MS have stated you'll have many more keyboard shortcuts available and the bar can be hidden - it's more customisable not less..

[OilSheikh]

Windows - getting ruined release by release.

From the 3D icons in XP to cartoony icons of Vista and Windows 7 and now this Ribbon crap!

[usxhe190]

What I don't understand is how you think anyone is taking something away from you? MS have stated you'll have many more keyboard shortcuts available and the bar can be hidden - it's more customisable not less..

Yes, but its the default and so MS wants you to move from the old style to the new style...

It's sorta like Vista/Win7 with the new programe layout at the start menu. Vista had the option of turning back on the old style but Win7 didn't and so you could see the direction MS wants to go with these stuff.

[dangel]

Yes, but its the default and so MS wants you to move from the old style to the new style...

..which is different from XP or 7 how? For most users they're saying this makes sense - for the majority of hexus folk it probably doesn't - every time I install XP or 7 for myself I end up customising explorer because it's not by default set up for a 'power user' (hateful term). I understand why it's like that.

It's sorta like Vista/Win7 with the new programe layout at the start menu. Vista had the option of turning back on the old style but Win7 didn't and so you could see the direction MS wants to go with these stuff.

Things have to change. The XP start menu (especially in 'classic' mode) was fecking horrible. Whilst I hate the expand/contract UI in 7 (XP's finicky menu->submenu->submenu->submenu was beyond annoying), the instant search and instant running of any command you can take from my cold dead body