News - Apple launches the iPhone 4S, but not the iPhone 5

[.havoc]

Oh and it has the voice command features already.

I am little baffled by this Siri malarky...voice recognition has been around since god knows when! In fact according to my good friend Wiki, it has been around since '52. And in phones since for as long as I can remember.

Question you gotta ask yourself is how many times have you EVER used voice dialling on your phone?

(Granted - Siri is an evolution of this tech, but I would still never use the thing.)

[Steve A]

16 mega-pixels? How utterly pointless. One of the few things I actually like Apple for is generally avoiding the pointless numbers game.

Phone cameras are *always* rubbish. More pixels just means lower signal to noise ratio, almost certainly resulting in far worse performance. It'll probably be dog slow too, because the images are so ridiculously big. You could blow up a 16 mega-pixel image to the size of the side of a barn, but would you really want to do that with an image taken on your crappy camera phone?

Don't fall for this nonsense!

I disagree ... i have the HTC sensation and the camera is excellent, for me it makes a big difference when im choosing which phone to go for.

I take pictures of my kids and get them printed and they look great.

My logic is pretty straight forward ... why pay more for something that does less, and im not just talking about the ipoo, im just taking about phones in general.

[Fraz]

So...going by THAT theory...whats the point in Apple introducing a higher resolution camera exactly? As surely you are just getting worse performance and crappier photo's that you wouldn't want to print on the side of a barn...apparently...

Frankly anything over about 5 mega-pixels in a phone camera is largely pointless. I'm talking about a balance of features. Image quality, responsiveness (i.e. do I press then wait for half a second, or does the photo get taken when *I* want it to be taken), contrast, having an actual shutter, repeat rate, etc, etc.

But sure, if you want to just judge the camera's quality because it has the biggest number of mega-pixels, then go ahead. I'm trying to say it's a largely pointless metric, and when it's the only thing manufacturer's aspire to, it generally means a reduction in quality. Apple, however, understands a well-rounded product better than most.

[Stringent]

Bit generous calling it a spec bump...more of a catchup is the way I see it. And there always seems to be this thing that unless they redesign the thing ENTIRELY then your e-peen is going to shrivel into obscurity because you can't take your new shiny fruit and rub in other peoples faces so hard you knock their eyeballs into the back of their head!

It's a product revision, as you say, a bump. Why waste cash changing the whole manufacturing process when you have an army drones out there willing to buy whatever you release next, doesn't make sense to change it because there isn't much point.

It is generous because compared with the current iPhone 4 it is a nice spec bump. However I would like to see real world differences between the iPhone 4 and 4S running iOS 5 and Siri, and camera shots. Is it catchup? Yes. But Apple don't sell specs, they sell 'it works'. People just have this expectation thats all.

But now is the time for the likes of HTC, Nokia, Samsung to bust out their cool new designs and phones to grab some customers back from Apple who won't be upgrading to an iPhone 4S.

Also its probably a pilot to see how well the new internals work in a phone, and if it works fine work on a redesign and revision for June next year.

[.havoc]

Frankly anything over about 5 mega-pixels in a phone camera is largely pointless. I'm talking about a balance of features. Image quality, responsiveness (i.e. do I press then wait for half a second, or does the photo get taken when *I* want it to be taken), contrast, having an actual shutter, repeat rate, etc, etc.

But sure, if you want to just judge the camera's quality because it has the biggest number of mega-pixels, then go ahead. I'm trying to say it's a largely pointless metric, and when it's the only thing manufacturer's aspire to, it generally means a reduction in quality. Apple, however, understands a well-rounded product better than most.

Oh no I agree, to the extent that i rarely - if ever - use the camera on my phone. I don't care for it, never have and never will- I am by no means a photographer. All I want is a fast responsive phone.

However, how do we know that improvements in picture quality (yet to be determined) haven't had an adverse effect on performance...but instead make it take longer to capture and process the image...?

And a well rounded product just means its a jack of all trades and master of nothing. As a phone - its pretty crap. The audio quality is so-so. It can be painfully temperamental (the number of times I have heard "f*ck sake this f*cking phone is f*cking crap" from my rather short tempered sibling - an apple fanatic - is quite astonishing)

But anyways we are somewhat focusing on an issue which ultimately - is completely irrelevant .

I think Apple really could of done more...something along the lines of bring it up to date with current tech, sure add a feature or two...but the thing that would of made it a winner is drop the damn price! I can't praise a product like this when it is so woefully expensive compared to its competitors without anything to make it significantly better...

[3dcandy]

Frankly anything over about 5 mega-pixels in a phone camera is largely pointless. I'm talking about a balance of features. Image quality, responsiveness (i.e. do I press then wait for half a second, or does the photo get taken when *I* want it to be taken), contrast, having an actual shutter, repeat rate, etc, etc.

But sure, if you want to just judge the camera's quality because it has the biggest number of mega-pixels, then go ahead. I'm trying to say it's a largely pointless metric, and when it's the only thing manufacturer's aspire to, it generally means a reduction in quality. Apple, however, understands a well-rounded product better than most.

Well rounded as in much more expensive? Or well rounded as in not as good as the competitors? You can spin whatever way you wish, but my point about the 4S is that it's not the great step forward previous generations were. It's 6 months too late in my mind, which is a lifetime in the mobile market right now. Also with dual core phones, camera responsiveness has jumped in leaps and bounds. Yup, you'll still never beat a piece of hardware that's designed just to take pictures, but that's another argument...

Seems most people are saying it's a dull product, with a dull launch, so unlike the Jobs era Apple. I haven't looked but last I saw the shares had taken a hit because of the lukewarm launch...

[mikerr]

I wonder if Siri has the same security bug that standard iphone voice control has...

Pick up someone's LOCKED iphone
Press and hold the home button for 2 seconds.
Now say "call work", "call home" or "call 0151 12345"

Yes, voice control bypasses the lock screen by default, and you can freely make calls on it ;(

[TheAnimus]

Question you gotta ask yourself is how many times have you EVER used voice dialling on your phone?

Most times I'm driving:

Call Dad Mobile

<Calling Brad Mobile>

NOT SOME MOBILE IN THE US YOU UTTER PIECE OF CRAP.

[3dcandy]

Oh no I agree, to the extent that i rarely - if ever - use the camera on my phone. I don't care for it, never have and never will- I am by no means a photographer. All I want is a fast responsive phone.

However, how do we know that improvements in picture quality (yet to be determined) haven't had an adverse effect on performance...but instead make it take longer to capture and process the image...?

And a well rounded product just means its a jack of all trades and master of nothing. As a phone - its pretty crap. The audio quality is so-so. It can be painfully temperamental (the number of times I have heard "f*ck sake this f*cking phone is f*cking crap" from my rather short tempered sibling - an apple fanatic - is quite astonishing)

But anyways we are somewhat focusing on an issue which ultimately - is completely irrelevant .

I think Apple really could of done more...something along the lines of bring it up to date with current tech, sure add a feature or two...but the thing that would of made it a winner is drop the damn price! I can't praise a product like this when it is so woefully expensive compared to its competitors without anything to make it significantly better...

Just seen Apple are touting 1.1 second to take first picture....not sure if that's from when you load the app or from when you press the shutter, but that's certainly not quick!

[Smudger]

Frankly anything over about 5 mega-pixels in a phone camera is largely pointless.
Apple, however, understands a well-rounded product better than most.

If that's the case, why are they increasing the mega-pixel count to 8? Aren't they just 'chasing' the same numbers that everyone else has?

I'm not particularly bothered about the camera on my phone - it gets used for snaps, at parties and such. If I want to get proper photos, I use a proper camera.

[.havoc]

Most times I'm driving:

Call Dad Mobile

<Calling Brad Mobile>

NOT SOME MOBILE IN THE US YOU UTTER PIECE OF CRAP.

Haha love it!

[Scott B]

I just put up the initial response to the launch, including a bunch of new Apple vids: http://mobile-device.biz/content/item.php?item=32028

[TheAnimus]

Frankly anything over about 5 mega-pixels in a phone camera is largely pointless. I'm talking about a balance of features. Image quality

The thing is the sensors are so much better now, you might find your better off with a cheap 10megapixel sensor, than you are with a moderate 8. The race to 16 has also resulted in massive cost reduction for OK quality kit. I dare say you're better off with a 16, and scaling down nowadays, of course this was not the case 3 years ago.

responsiveness (i.e. do I press then wait for half a second, or does the photo get taken when *I* want it to be taken), contrast, having an actual shutter, repeat rate, etc, etc

And this is why in classic Apple style they ignored this. They instead showed a bar chart of it vrs some hand picked competitors.

First and foremost, anyone who doesn't have a lock screen of some kind is an idiot. I mean really you are. Secondly, navigate to the camera 'App'.

So, compare that with any WP7.5 phone, which has a dedicated camera button on the side, which can be turned on whilst the phone is locked.

As such the time to shot should be measured in how long it takes to get out of pocket, find button, frame, take.

When you look at it in those terms, I'd wager that any without a hardware button are far behind.

Its like their graph of userbase adaption of the latest OSX service pack vs win7... lol.

[crossy]

I disagree ... i have the HTC sensation and the camera is excellent, for me it makes a big difference when im choosing which phone to go for. I take pictures of my kids and get them printed and they look great.

Add the old SE Xperia X10 to that list of mobies with decent camera's (agree cheesemp?). It's not that good for wide(/landscape) shots, diabolical for anything moving fast, but for portrait and macro shots it's actually pretty decent. I'd certainly be content to A4 print some of the shots I get with it.

Frankly anything over about 5 mega-pixels in a phone camera is largely pointless. I'm talking about a balance of features. Image quality, responsiveness (i.e. do I press then wait for half a second, or does the photo get taken when *I* want it to be taken), contrast, having an actual shutter, repeat rate, etc, etc.

Well put - personally speaking I'd agree with the 5MP "limit" unless there was some seriously good lens in front of that sensor. Can't see any point to 8MP+ unless there's optical zoom in there too. That said, camera is a "nice to have", not an essential to me - I place higher importance on battery life, heft, UI responsiveness.

Well...I'm going to need a bigger bowl! Since my current bowl of 'Who gives a sh*t' seems to be overflowing at the moment...

Rotten sod - I just finished cleaning the last of the coffee spray out of the keyboard/monitor after your last such comment!
Hexus: any chance of a "coffee spray" emotie being added to the list - looks like I'm going to need it?

Interesting to see that pretty much everyone's honed in on Siri and the camera - surely there's more to this launch than that? If not then I'm going to agree with Stringent, i.e. "But now is the time for the likes of HTC, Nokia, Samsung to bust out their cool new designs and phones to grab some customers back from Apple who won't be upgrading to an iPhone 4S.". Samsung seem to be doing incremental improvements, HTC look to be off to Win7 (with some darned nice designs), and I'm willing to put a large bet that Stephen Elop has made it plain to his designers that the first NokiaSoft phone will have to be a tour-de-force.

So are we going to mark this Apple launch as "C- - must try harder" ?

[cheesemp]

Add the old SE Xperia X10 to that list of mobies with decent camera's (agree cheesemp?). It's not that good for wide(/landscape) shots, diabolical for anything moving fast, but for portrait and macro shots it's actually pretty decent. I'd certainly be content to A4 print some of the shots I get with it.

I've been remembered! Yes completely agree. Its good enough for most things and the HD video recording is quite nice. Still would rather have a proper camera when I want something decent but great for facebook etc.

Also regarding voice control - Android has had this for ages - I've just never found a use for it!

[.havoc]

Rotten sod - I just finished cleaning the last of the coffee spray out of the keyboard/monitor after your last such comment!
Hexus: any chance of a "coffee spray" emotie being added to the list - looks like I'm going to need it?

Just for you Crossy...