Features - QOTW: Will you be buying the new iPad?

[Mattus]

Popularity is no more an indicator of suitability than it is an indicator of scientific accuracy.

What exactly are you saying? Are you saying that all these people who buy iPads would actually be better-suited to an Android tablet of some description, but they're somehow bamboozled into buying the iPad instead?

This is by far the most annoying argument used against Apple because it implies that Apple users are too stupid to know which products are actually best for them. For those of us who actually buy Apple products on their merits after having considered their suitability, to be frank, it's pretty insulting. Why can't you accept that Android tablets may be right for you, but the Android tablet manufacturers have singularly failed to make products which appeal to the majority?

And if all these iPad users are using a product which actually isn't very suitable for them, how can you explain the fact that Apple has the highest satisfaction figures in the industry? Or is that down to the stupid unthinking Apple sheep as well?

[watercooled]

Again, marketing and the label, if Android marketed a tablet to the same extent as Apple the figures would certainly be quite different.

And the 'stupid Apple sheep' remark is just an over-sensitive interpretation by many users IMO. Ignorance != stupid, and many people will have only used an iPad/pod/phone, because it's the well-known/safe option but won't have bothered to research anywhere near as much as us enthusiasts would, nor will they have tried others, so they can't possibly know another brand isn't much better suited to their needs.

In my experience, people owning non-Apple products in parts of the market where they do well, tend to be the type to put more research into the purchase while, as I said, the Apple choice is the default to play it safe.

[Mattus]

Again, marketing and the label, if Android marketed a tablet to the same extent as Apple the figures would certainly be quite different.

I disagree. The iPad UI is easier to use for the uninitiated, the product is more aesthetically appealing, and it's supported by better infrastructure (i.e. the App Store, iCloud, software updates, etc.) Those factors are at least as important as marketing.

[watercooled]

I disagree. The iPad UI is easier to use for the uninitiated,

Opinion, subjective

the product is more aesthetically appealing,

Again, subjective and TBH there's not a great deal of difference between quite a few of the vanilla tablets.

and it's supported by better infrastructure (i.e. the App Store, iCloud, software updates, etc.) Those factors are at least as important as marketing.

Not necessarily, and you lose some of that if you jailbreak to run anything besides what Apple decides you can.

If you want to start nitpicking, I'm sure i could come up with a substantial list of problems with Apple choices. For example, fragility, most people I know who own an iPhone have broken the screen at some point, we even made a joke about it when a friend dropped his Blackberry from a 3rd floor walkway and it survived completely intact.

[Mattus]

Opinion, subjective

Of course it's an opinion. This is a forum - it's full of opinions. But you can't just dismiss all opinions this way because some opinions are supported by a lot more empirical evidence than others. It is mentioned again and again and again that the iPad's ease of use is a major factor in its appeal to a diverse range of users.

Which evidence do you have that Android tablets offer a high level of ease of use for users outside of the technology enthusiast community?

As for what Apple 'allows you to run' on an iPad.. the 'walled garden' is another argument that gets a lot of technology enthusiasts on forums in a rage, but for the majority of users just isn't an important issue. What does the average user want to do on an iPad which he can't do without jailbreaking (with the possible exception of Flash)?

[aidanjt]

It is mentioned again and again and again that the iPad's ease of use is a major factor in its appeal to a diverse range of users.

Everything written there 'extolling the virtues of the iPad, period' is really just extolling the virtues of the tablet form factor compared to one of the traditional PC form factors. If you're going to be asserting that the iPad is teh bestest eva, and nothing else in the universe can beat it, then you really need to be backing that up with an impartial comparative study of all valid contenders.

[MSIC]

If you're going to be asserting that the iPad is teh bestest eva, and nothing else in the universe can beat it, then you really need to be backing that up with an impartial comparative study of all valid contenders.

I happen to think Mattus is right, and when he is trying to calmly put across an opinion its not very mature to degenerate in to the above sort of writing (and i know you're normally better than that).

For me personally, i think that iOS is a much more intuitive interface - it's more internally consistent than Android (at least 2.3, which i'm familiar with on my SGS2 plus 2.3 on a previous tablet) - a common example being my 'back' button which sometimes exits from an app, and other times come up one level, and not always predictably either. If i go in to my text app in 2.3 it typically takes me to my last sent text. If i want to create a new text, i press the back button, and sometimes get dumped back to my iOS.
I also think that iOS is a prettier interface - again, at least compared to iOS 2.3 (youtube videos of 3.0 do appear to go in a better direction, and i cant wait to upgrade to 4.0).
For me, and i think this is a critical point - many tech literate people (i.e. us here) dont care too much about the beauty of how something is presented and far prefer to have features and functionality; we are too quick to dismiss this attitute in others as trivial or 'dumbing down' in some way - i would 100% disagree with this perspective, and would confidently argue that it is these sorts of attention-to-detail points that have results in Apple's rapid expansion in to the mindset of the general public (and concurrent profitability).
Android is a more flexible, capable and seemingly powerful system than iOS is, but if you look only at the things that iOS does offer, then it offers then in a better way than Android does.

I dont believe that the general public want choice and 'real' functionality - they want a straightforward, beautiful and high quality interface that does the things that have been prepared / indoctrinated (take your pick) to think about.

[aidanjt]

I happen to think Mattus is right, and when he is trying to calmly put across an opinion its not very mature to degenerate in to the above sort of writing (and i know you're normally better than that).

He was making bare assertions, not opinions. And he was far from being calm about it. In fact he became quite hysterical when I simply stated that popularity isn't a measure of suitability.

For me personally, i think that iOS is a much more intuitive interface - it's more internally consistent than Android (at least 2.3, which i'm familiar with on my SGS2 plus 2.3 on a previous tablet) - a common example being my 'back' button which sometimes exits from an app, and other times come up one level, and not always predictably either. If i go in to my text app in 2.3 it typically takes me to my last sent text. If i want to create a new text, i press the back button, and sometimes get dumped back to my iOS.
I also think that iOS is a prettier interface - again, at least compared to iOS 2.3 (youtube videos of 3.0 do appear to go in a better direction, and i cant wait to upgrade to 4.0).
For me, and i think this is a critical point - many tech literate people (i.e. us here) dont care too much about the beauty of how something is presented and far prefer to have features and functionality; we are too quick to dismiss this attitute in others as trivial or 'dumbing down' in some way - i would 100% disagree with this perspective, and would confidently argue that it is these sorts of attention-to-detail points that have results in Apple's rapid expansion in to the mindset of the general public (and concurrent profitability).
Android is a more flexible, capable and seemingly powerful system than iOS is, but if you look only at the things that iOS does offer, then it offers then in a better way than Android does.

I dont believe that the general public want choice and 'real' functionality - they want a straightforward, beautiful and high quality interface that does the things that have been prepared / indoctrinated (take your pick) to think about.

See, that's an opinion. You're not using assertive language. I don't agree with it, because I find ICS more atheistically pleasing than iOS, and I don't prescribe to the idea that technology needs to be condescending or dictatorial for most people to get to grips with it. And that's not to say there isn't room for improvement in Android, obviously there is for both, otherwise new products would be pointless. But it's a well expressed opinion.

[crossy]

Again, marketing and the label, if Android marketed a tablet to the same extent as Apple the figures would certainly be quite different.

And the 'stupid Apple sheep' remark is just an over-sensitive interpretation by many users IMO. Ignorance != stupid, and many people will have only used an iPad/pod/phone, because it's the well-known/safe option

First part - very true. The influence of Apple's marketing machine (kudos to them for being so good at it is everywhere). E.g. go into a big electronic store and look at the large displays for iPhone and iPad, as opposed to the stuck-in-the-corner one for 'droid devices (and Playbooks). I asked a PC World guy about this one day, and was quite candidly told that it was in their interests to sell iPads etc because the margins were better. Not saying that this is necessarily true or not personally, merely repeating what I was told.

Look on films and tv - what you'll see invariably are iPhones and iPads (although the new Hawaii Five-O seems to be going through a spell of Android and WinP7 phones). E.g. "Alexander Armstrong's The Big Ask" on Dave, the guests use iPads to draw on - no reason that something else couldn't have been chosen. Look also at online sites - Comets, Currys, etc - the categorisation is "iPad" and then "Tablet" (for Galaxy Tab's etc), almost if the iPad isn't really a tablet, or there's iPads and then there's other things too - but the iPad is first in the list.

I really hate the "Apple Sheeple" monika - as the only ones it really applies to are the evangelical types. That said I've equal opprobrium for the "if you use Apple then you're a sellout" crowd. Said it before, while I have little respect for Apple the company, they do turn out some darned good products (although perhaps not to my taste at the moment).

the iPad's ease of use is a major factor in its appeal to a diverse range of users. Which evidence do you have that Android tablets offer a high level of ease of use for users outside of the technology enthusiast community?

Hmm, but that's where we diverge, I'm not convinced that iPads are necessarily easier to use than the Android equivalents, especially if you disregard the stuff running Android 2.3 and instead pick proper ICS gear. And unless you've got access to some learned university study, I suspect any "evidence" on ease of use will difficult to find.

For me personally, i think that iOS is a much more intuitive interface - it's more internally consistent than Android (at least 2.3, which i'm familiar with on my SGS2 plus 2.3 on a previous tablet) - a common example being my 'back' button which sometimes exits from an app, and other times come up one level, and not always predictably either. If i go in to my text app in 2.3 it typically takes me to my last sent text. If i want to create a new text, i press the back button, and sometimes get dumped back to my iOS.

Funnily enough I had exactly the same complaints about my iPod Touch - that being one of the reasons I got rid of it.

I also think that iOS is a prettier interface - again, at least compared to iOS 2.3 (youtube videos of 3.0 do appear to go in a better direction, and i cant wait to upgrade to 4.0).
For me, and i think this is a critical point - many tech literate people (i.e. us here) dont care too much about the beauty of how something is presented and far prefer to have features and functionality; we are too quick to dismiss this attitute in others as trivial or 'dumbing down' in some way - i would 100% disagree with this perspective, and would confidently argue that it is these sorts of attention-to-detail points that have results in Apple's rapid expansion in to the mindset of the general public (and concurrent profitability).

I'm going to disagree with everything that you said here - how many times have folks here complained about a case looking ugly or Win 8 Metro being a mess? As to relative beauty I think that both Android 3.0+ and iOS5 have good points and bad - if I had a level playing field choice of which to choose for a new device I'd have to think very long and hard.
The trivialisation (in some circles) of the "experience" - I think - is down to those folks who've consistently argued that an Apple device is "better" purely on it's looks. When I saw someone describe an iPhone4S as "a device having an almost sensuous beauty" I knew they'd lost the plot - it's a phone, get over it! (PS SE Arc S is still wayyyyy prettier to me anyway - ha-ha).
And here's where I get lynched - there was an article that said, in effect, that some of Apple's success was due to being identified as a "fashionable" brand and hence people bought solely to feel that they "belonged" to that elite. There's maybe some truth in that - e.g. look at the very large logo's on the backs of iPhone and iPad, placed where others can see them.

I dont believe that the general public want choice and 'real' functionality - they want a straightforward, beautiful and high quality interface that does the things that have been prepared / indoctrinated (take your pick) to think about.

Hmm, again, not sure I agree. Most folks I know about who've gone for a tablet have wanted it for a specific reason. If the learning curve for an iPad to do what they want is smaller then it's a better device - no argument possible. My point is that, whilst in 2010 this was an easy choice (heck, I probably would have bought an iPad!), in 2011 it's less so, and now this year (with more decent devices from Samsung et al) and (finally!) a decent tablet OS in ICS, it's more of a straight fight.

Personally speaking (and if this get's me accused of being a sell-out then so be it), if I was to buy a tablet for my mother, then it'd probably be an iPad2 - because her needs wouldn't be much and the brand recognition would save on a lot of explanation. On the other hand, for my eldest daughter it'd probably be an Asus Transformer, and her sister would probably prefer a Sony S series. That said, both of them currently have HP TouchPad's and are enjoying them greatly - now there's an interface that deserved more of a shot than it eventually got!

Maybe Hexus should escalate this from QOTW to Question-Of-The-Month?

[mikerr]

Android does have a brand/image problem - how does the great unwashed know the difference between a crap £50 android tablet (experience that and you'll move away from android totally) and a decent android tablet.
A decent android talbet is better than an ipad, but not all android tablets are at that level.

Similar situation with phones, the best android phone is probably better than an iphone,
but there's a lot of crap android devices below it...

E.g. I could demo my android NOVO Elf - which is a match/better than my ipad - but then friends have seen that and gone out and bought a poor tablet thinking android tablets are all similar (they aren't).

With there being one ipad, there's no bottom end crap - less choice, but no real chance to choose wrong either.

[watercooled]

Very much my point, you can go and buy an iPad knowing what you'll get. Go and pick a random Android tab without research and you could end up with something catastrophically bad if you're unlucky. Unfortunately, as you say, people see 'Android' as an equivalent to the iPad, they don't get it's just the OS run by a wide range of tablets/phones.

Simply recommending an Android tablet is like recommending a PC running Windows, assuming they'll all be the same. And that lack of choice really does help Apple's reputation, it makes things simpler.

In terms of beauty of a UI, bash needs some love IMO.

[crossy]

Very much my point, you can go and buy an iPad knowing what you'll get. Go and pick a random Android tab without research and you could end up with something catastrophically bad if you're unlucky. Unfortunately, as you say, people see 'Android' as an equivalent to the iPad, they don't get it's just the OS run by a wide range of tablets/phones.

Oh, so true - I really can't help coming back to the conclusion that what's needed is a prominent "Google Certified" sticker (although "Google Play Certified" would also do), along with some major PR to get that "brand" out there. To get that branding, your tablet would need to be running Android 3.0/4.0 and have Market/Play on it - and I'd maybe argue that ICS perhaps should be the minimum OS level.
There's also maybe a point of view that Microsoft has learned lessons and been a bit better at keeping the Windows Phone "experience" relatively consistent - so I'd hope that Windows 8 Tablet Edition would be equally good/bad across it's various makes and models.

Simply recommending an Android tablet is like recommending a PC running Windows, assuming they'll all be the same. And that lack of choice really does help Apple's reputation, it makes things simpler.

Hadn't thought of that, but again, that's a good summary. Same as buying a Mac - you know exactly what you're going to get.

In terms of beauty of a UI, bash needs some love IMO.

colour bash is all the ui you need... rofl.

[3dcandy]

If you read that report on the crash statistics, part of the problem is that the average Apple users does not realise the app has crashed because it is silent under iOS 99% of the time. When you try the app again it reloads/re-starts and you just don't know it has crashed, whilst Android usually makes a big song and dance....
Walled garden is a blessing and a pita for Apple. I don't particularly feel that the ecosystem is that much better, I quite like the Android market and can find stuff and download it just as quick, and usually it's cheaper too. Only problem is that some apps are written with a fixed screen res and don't play so well. This fragmentation of Android is bad as you can buy tosh, both hardware and software wise. Also it's still great to buy one dock/connector and just plonk your iDevice in...

My biggest beef I think is the price issue, I can always get a cheaper option than Apple that will do the job equally as well. These things are all tools basically right?

[3dcandy]

Also re: Samsung and Tablets, people forget that quite a few components in iPads are made by Samsung, cpu and screens especially, so they must be making a fair bit from Apple already. I'd like to see what happens if Apple pushes too hard and Samsung stops supplying them. Probably won't happen but I would laugh so hard my ass would probably detach from my body if they did...

[TooNice]

For example, fragility, most people I know who own an iPhone have broken the screen at some point, we even made a joke about it when a friend dropped his Blackberry from a 3rd floor walkway and it survived completely intact.

Really? Can't say that I've ever dropped my phone.. or any electronic device from a 3rd floor walkway and I am not about to try, but after 4 years of use, and having dropped my 2G iPhone from various places, the screen is damage free. I can honestly say that none of the people I know with newer iPhones have complained about broken screens either. It doesn't come across as the most obvious issue to me.

I can always get a cheaper option than Apple that will do the job equally as well. These things are all tools basically right?

As hardware, it might be true. Though I question if it is the case in the MP3 player market - back when I was looking for one in the iPod 5G, Creative Vision:M, iAudio X5 and they all did the job "equally well" on average more or less, but they all had exclusive features or did certain things better than the competition. The pricing difference between each devices wasn't great enough to give up any single device if it had the features that suits your needs/taste more than the others.

But as tools, the applications they run is at least as important as the hardware. My most used application for the past 3 years is this: http://www.codefromtokyo.com

I have periodically scanned discussion threads on learning tools on Japanese learning forums, and while Japanese <-> English dictionaries obviously exist on Android devices, there are useful features in the aforementioned apps not found elsewhere. It's probably too niche of a product for most people to care, but I would and can afford to pay more for a more suitable tool, and suitability in this case is less about the hardware but more about the software.

I'll note is that the IME Pad on Windows is *miles* better than the Kanji drawing pad on the iOS (or at least earlier versions, I am stuck to version 3 on my 2G iPhone). If this remains true on Windows 8 smartphone and someone develop a suitable app, it might be enough for me to jump ship.

In the mean time, I am just going to shop for a cheap second hand 3GS so that I can actually make calls here in Japan and carry on using the same applications. As a tool, the hardware is adequate.

[Mattus]

He was making bare assertions, not opinions..

Bare assertions? My assertions were supported by three sources. Which, unless I'm mistaken, is three more than you have provided in support of yours.