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About LinkBacksBuggy whips hugely outsold automobiles at the start of the 20th century too. If you were there you'd no doubt have missed the point then as well and be claiming how pathetic car sales were.
Buggy whips hugely outsold automobiles at the start of the 20th century too. If you were there you'd no doubt have missed the point then as well and be claiming how pathetic car sales were.
I see you're still completely unable to differentiate between a PC and a tablet. That's ok, I'm sure it's confusing to people who can only eat up marketing hyperbole.Originally Posted by Malphas
At no point have I inferred anything about PC and tablets being the same or similar. You're just consistently failing to understand why that isn't important.
If you like Windows 7 so so so much then keep using it, it will be supported until 2020 like people have said. Nobody forces you to upgrade! Those people who like Windows 8 could just get on with benefitting from the new features in peace and quiet without the tirade of negativity from people who aren't getting what they want (which is what they already have). Ahhh blissful quiet...
Windows 8 and Metro has been created for a touch driven world that Microsoft are scrabbling to not be left out of. Apple, smartphones and the hardware manufacturers have pushed us down the touch road and made it a huge market which actually the general public seem to quite like (touching things after all is quite simple and intuitive for non technical folk), Microsoft once again are not leading the market but trying to catch one that is running away from them. Windows 7 like all forms of Windows before it are crap for touch devices, that's why the original tablet concept died on it's arse 10yrs ago.
Windows 8 is really fine, sure there isn't so much there to give reason to upgrade your old PC but for the new touchy-feely devices it's meant for there is a lot of relevant and useful changes. Remember most of Windows sales is OEM with hardware, focussing on the smaller upgrade market isn't really a good business strategy. Windows and PC hardware are symbiotic, new things in one drives sales in the other so Windows 8 must successfully partner with the new hardware form factors and create something new to drive the market together. At the moment that means tablets and already Microsoft are playing catch up to iPads so they have focussed on the touch and tablet experience.
Windows 8 is necessary, Microsoft's hand is forced and they are trying their best to make a jack-of-all-trades OS to drive integration. Personally I prefer that to the cut-down OS strategy (iOS, Android) so I'll take the rough with the smooth (I'm not a huge fan of launching desktop mode from Metro but I'll cope, not that bad really is it) and probably buy a Windows 8/x86 tablet in the style of the Asus Transformer and replace two of my devices in one hit...
Ahhh and there ends some moderate calm, let the vitriol commence...
Malphas (06-06-2012)
I lol'ed at that, have been down the same road with Office
Jon
Commenters seem to want it to literally stay the same, or not release Windows 8 at all... imagine if MS had taken that same "not broke, people like it and use it" attitude before Windows 7, Vista, XP.... we'd still be using a Windows 95 clone by that strategy. They need to shake up with Windows UI for a new touch world so that it works for poking... it's about trying to make it usable on as many form factors as possible. Keeping the UI exactly like 7 as the luddites call for would ensure Windows becomes the sad old dinosaur of the computing world.
Of course it'll come to nothing... people always grumble about change on something they quite like and are used to, but they continue to use it anyway and soon learn that actually the new way can be better. It took some getting used to the Ribbon, but once you do it really is quicker than all those menus.That said, I suspect that all the (continuing) grousing about evident deficiencies in the Windows 8 UI will come to naught, since it'll follow the usual Microsoft "innovation" pattern - namely: rejection, refusal, acceptance, affection. First we'll hate it, then refuse to upgrade, then grudgingly accept that it's a "done deal" and try and make the best of it, before finally coming around to their way of thinking. Last example of this was the (infamous?) Office 2007 ribbon debacle - although I still hate it, but have now progressed to the "acceptance" stage.
Is it too early to start lobbying Microsoft for a touchless option for Windows 9 - seeing as this seems to be the preferred option for the Windows 8 refuseniks?
Another example why the MS attitude to shoehorning never worked in the first place. Apple OTH,did not do this though. OS X and iOS were separated and will be still for a reasonable amount of time. TBH,I have the feeling Apple will still do a better job of combining the needs of both desktop and tablet owners.
The ONLY reason MS want to push desktop users towards Metro and especially Metro apps,is to make more money. That is all. They will get a greater cut from software sales on the platform and bulk up their app store so the numbers look better when compared to iOS and Android.
But still 600 million sales of Windows 7 including 75 million sales of Windows 7 this year,indicates quite a number of people probably like Windows 7,especially considering Windows 8 is only a few months away and is probably liked by a decent amount of the general public. You would expect most people would be holding off until Windows 8 and this does not seem the case. However,it would be interesting to see how business adopts Windows 8 or whether Windows 7 will still be more popular for the immediate future. I suspect the extended support is probably for business and commercial users. The fact that it was announced before the release of the retail version of Windows 8,is very interesting.
Windows 8 tablets will need to compete on price with the iPad and if not Windows 8 might fail in the tablet wars. There is noise that the licensing costs for tablets might be higher than what most OEMs want though,which is going to be a problem. On top of this Android tablets also exist on the low end too. Convertible tablets might be able to command a higher price,but they will be only really be useful for people who want to do work using a keyboard and touchpad or mouse. However,in this case Windows 7 might be an unintentional competitor especially for business use.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 06-06-2012 at 07:07 PM.
This, infers this:
If you don't understand the difference between a PC and a tablet, then you're unable to understand why it's important to be able to distinguish the differences between them.
In your opinion, in my opinion (and presumably in Microsoft's) it's not relevant. Why should Microsoft care about your pedantic definitions of what qualifies as a PC, or what kind of devices Windows is supposedly aimed at. Microsoft can afford to not care about people like you, you either have nowhere else to go due to a lack of competition, or you're one of the tiny of handful of Linux users. On the other hand Microsoft can't afford to neglect the tablet market, because there's viable competition there from Google, and the sector is poised to grow massively - if they don't get a foothold now, then they could be relegated to an also-ran permanently. In a nutshell, that's why Windows 8 is so touch/tablet-centric rather than just being a slightly improved Windows 7 to appease stubborn users that want more of the same.
But that's just it, the majority of PC users don't have a touchscreen and people aren't going to go out and buy one just because Windows 8 has metro, yes obviously some will, but the majority won't. Microsofts approach has been wrong in my opinion. Microsoft could have easily made Windows 8 with an optional installation screen that said "Metro or Classic View", that way they could still keep all the touch screen features while keeping the majority of pc users happy.
Jon
^^ This
Rookie
But.. but.. that's just your pedantic opinion!! And since Malphas' opinion is the only opinion in the universe which matters, you're wrong! Because he said so.
I know there is a lot of negativity around windows 8, which I am happy to jump on the band wagon, but all these negative views do come from PC 'geeks' (excuse the phrase)
I think to your average Joe Windows 8 will work very well. I think for the very younger generation growing up with tablets/Android they will prefer Windows 8 to and previous versions. I think we don't like the massive change that windows 8 is bringing. Alot of people didn't like seeing the back of DOS, but windows 95 did start the ball moving on the next two decades of computing as we know it.
I think Windows 8 is taking the next step, in ten years we will get used to it, grow with it and it will grow with us. Microsoft are em-brassing the next generation, not the old one.
Most of the UI concepts have been around since the 1960s and 1970s though,so there is really nothing new about any of this. Multi-touch ideas were refined in the 1980s and 1990s AFAIK. I have been using touch based mobile devices since 2005,way before most people I knew and you could make the argument that many techies adopt these things years before. This is why touch is not a big deal. It is already incorporated into our lives.
Touch is easier to use in many cases - I find using my TP more convenient for general stuff and for sharing stuff with others too. Its like the whole PC vs console argument too.
However,I also think you forget some people who are complaining are those who do work with their PCs. Can you imagine doing excel work on the current touch only tablets,ie, large spreadsheets,or even programming work?? What about things like Coreldraw?? Try writing a large thesis on a touch only device too or extensive documentation.
Tablets can be incorporated into this workflow but I don't think touch based computers can totally replace older methods ATM.
A lot of this involves extensive multi-tasking too. If people ended up doing one thing at a time,yeah it would so great and easy. Unfortunately in many jobs that is not acceptable any more,and lack of productivity will screw you over.
IMHO,I don't think the current touch based UIs and technology are that great for such purposes. Perhaps,in another few years,but not with what is currently on the market.
However, using something "older" methods,means more work is done,then good for you. If that even includes something "old" like CLI,why not??
Instead of a communist like approach, there needs to be more choice in what UIs people can use,instead of this one size fits all mantra which is an outdated way of thinking IMHO.
Why even keep to one interface?? If something works better with CLI,use it. If a mouse and keyboard based GUI works better for something use that,touch works with something else, use that.
Voice and thought based interfaces are probably going to be the next areas to get more attention in the next few years.
Just because a steering wheel works well with a car,does not mean you want to fly a plane with one either.
Just because Lady Gaga is top of the charts,it does not means you need to chuck away all your Led Zeppelin albums.
It is almost like some homogenous way of thinking - you can't use that you are dumb,or you are a golden oldie, or too young,etc. Small minded thinking IMHO(not a dig you,but at all these UI evangelists).
Just because something is old means it is not going to disappear. Graphics tablets are an example - even the steering wheel on a car.
Finger based touch ATM lacks precision,which is the issue,and most of the things you are talking about are not content creation but content consumption,and serially done tasks.
Tablets,were first thought of decades ago for consumption reasons,ie,one example being for teaching purposes especially for children. Even in 2001:A Space Odyssey,they use tablets to watch TV and that was in the 1960s! The mouse and keyboard GUI interface was thought of for productivity reasons in the home office(Xerox were the first to implement it).
This is what UI evangelists forget,they are different animals for different markets and this has been known since the 1970s.
It is only technology which has prevented tablets from being implemented on a larger scale earlier,ie,touchscreens which were a major stumbling block.
Even it were not the case,the keyboard and mouse probably would still be around IMHO.
Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 06-06-2012 at 10:38 PM.
Don't forget amd needs windows 8 to succeed to save their current cpu architecture, bulldozer and its derivatives got a significant performance boost in the developer preview, haven't seen anyone do a performance roundup of the builds yet.
This would be an issue if the majority of Windows sales occured directly, however as you should be aware the vast majority of sales are to OEMs who preinstall them on devices. Since Microsoft are pushing in this direction it's fairly obvious that manufacturers are going to be increasingly including touchscreens in the devices they sell. And I say "devices" rather than PC's, because that's what Windows 8 is intended for - it's no long a desktop or production notebook oriented system, it's intended for everything from tablets and convertibles to small screen ultraportables, to traditional notebooks and desktops. Unfortunately for some that means compromises, but again Microsoft really doesn't need to worry, because PC Windows users have no-where else to go, there's simply no viable competition in that sector (unlike tablets and convertibles).
Basically just because you personally dislike the way Windows 8 is headed, doesn't mean it's a bad idea. You're in a minority of disgruntled users that Microsoft doesn't need to worry about. Microsoft's aims aren't to keep every single one of their existing users happy, it's to sell more licenses and Windows 8 helps achieve that by massively broadening the range of form factors they can target.
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