News - Now anyone can try Windows 8 RTM for free

[dangel]

Vista/7 UI may look different but for the most part behave very similarly to XP. Driver problems were an issue, and fixing them took longer than it should have, but at least you could rely on them being fixed at some point, unlike the 8 UI which will likely remain as-is unless sales are terrible; MS probably anticipated this hence the very low expected pricing.

I wouldn't put it past MS to put out 9 earlier than normal (regardless of populatity of 8 mind) because they seem to be doing many things differently of late. Less SKUs, lower pricing, taking risks, tablets, NT everywhere, xbox integration etc etc.
Vista remained an unstable mess for half it's lifetime and is still today horrible on laptops due to it's hard drive chatter.

No, we don't have to buy it, but being MS they essentially force people to upgrade eventually because things like DX are never upgraded on a given OS, and then there's underlying improvements like the CPU scheduler (which is meant to improve BD performance but I admit I've not actually checked that yet). I just hope it's similar to Vista>7 where 8 is the expensive public beta and 9 will be the version actually worth the trouble of installing.

As I said, three choices - and you can already avoid MUI practically all the time with minimal effort if you're so inclined (which is one of them). I think you're right - 9 will make things far more sensible (and I also think that until Surface an WP8 are on the market none of this makes much sense anyway) for desktops. To call 8 transitional is obviously true and MS like any other company have to listen to their customers and react.

I can guarantee you won't *need* 8 for a year minimum for gaming - probably much longer - as it takes a long time for new DX versions to see any uptake (see DX11).

[fragrance1]

Wow That's amazing. I'd love to try this out

[Noxvayl]

What's the big problem?

The way I see it the big problem is that unless Microsoft do a U-turn people using Windows 7 or XP will be forced to either choose another Operating System or deal with the new interface Microsoft has created in the future. Clearly people are unwilling to deal with the new interface and therefore they are making as much noise about it as possible to try persuade Microsoft to change it.

[dangel]

The way I see it the big problem is that unless Microsoft do a U-turn people using Windows 7 or XP will be forced to either choose another Operating System or deal with the new interface Microsoft has created in the future. Clearly people are unwilling to deal with the new interface and therefore they are making as much noise about it as possible to try persuade Microsoft to change it.

First people aren't going to choose another OS. I know some think this could happen but I'm a realist - people will either upgrade or stick till 9 comes along. Second, I agree clearly *some* people are unwilling - we just don't know how many. Either way I don't see that as a problem - if they force MS to change things for the better, what's the big problem?

The truth is for the most part people will live with whatever MS do - I see it all the time when people visit with an ill laptop, running Vista and a buttload of crap they don't need making it slow as hell. They just put up with it because they don't know any better. It's horrible isn't it? But then remember how most people buy a PC - from a box shifter who load it with current-Windows and bunch of trialware.

Just for reference I'm now refusing to look at XP PCs *at all*

[Noxvayl]

Either way I don't see that as a problem - if they force MS to change things for the better, what's the big problem?

Massive if there, I don't think Microsoft are paying much attention to desktop customers and if they are it doesn't seem like they are listening or have any intention to listen.

To me it is more likely that Linux becomes the desktop OS of choice than Microsoft making Windows 9 desktop friendly.

Just for reference I'm now refusing to look at XP PCs *at all*

I also dislike XP now, thankfully everyone in my family has Windows 7 so I don't have to deal with it.

[dangel]

Massive if there, I don't think Microsoft are paying much attention to desktop customers and if they are it doesn't seem like they are listening or have any intention to listen.

To me it is more likely that Linux becomes the desktop OS of choice than Microsoft making Windows 9 desktop friendly.

MS make piles of money out of Office and Windows - they have to listen it's a massive revenue stream. Of course they're also thinking about WP8 and Surface and that's perhaps why they're willing to take a hit in the short term. They've done it before so I don't see why they wouldn't do it again and simply standing still will see them left in the wake of Google and Apple as they build new markets well away from the impenetrable ecosystem of Microsoft. That they'd not bring things back together in the future seems highly unlikely - they either back down on their new path or refine it to the point where the issues fall away on the desktop. Has to happen, period. Consider this, Vista needed to happen - everything you love today in 7 has it's basis there (particularly the driver model and better security) but initially came with great pain.

Linux has been coming to the desktop 'real soon now' for the past decade - and even with MS' worst OS mistake in that period (Vista) it has had no real traction. I can't see 8 changing that based on it's UI alone as the underlying OS is very good. One wonders though if the core OS team (call them the 'desktop' team) at MS aren't very upset about shipping the MUI layer as is.
Oddly enough i'd love some real competition on the desktop from linux but really it's only a threat in mobile (Android) which MS have obviously recognised.

On a sidenote, does anyone else wonder how we'll be interacting with our desktops in the future? I note that kinect (and similar controllers with higher accuracy) have appeared of late plus keyboards and mice with touch/gesture support. Whilst touch screens are undoubtably daft on desktops does this matter in light of this sort of thing? Will I be swiping my keys/mouse?

[aidanjt]

On a sidenote, does anyone else wonder how we'll be interacting with our desktops in the future?

Well at the current rate of GUI retardation, I'll likely end up using regular kms kernel terminal or KMSCON full time, instead of being crippled by unusable tabletised crap. At least the 'UX' designers are nowhere to be seen in cli land, and they'd likely be strung up if they tried to make the fonts and colours and margins and boarders all pretty-like.

[dangel]

Well at the current rate of GUI retardation, I'll likely end up using KMSCON full time, instead of being crippled by unusable tabletised crap. At least the 'UX' designers are nowhere to be seen in cli land, and they'd likely be strung up if they tried to make the fonts and colours and margins and boarders all pretty-like.

Oh, I dunno - powershell ain't black

My earlier question to you?

[aidanjt]

My earlier question to you?

Which? Examples of Win8 RTM being worse than the beta? Well Metr.. sorry Windows 8-style User Interface, snapped front and centre. The beta at least semi-pretended to be a desktop OS, had a 'start menu', as laughable as it was, rather than being a tablet OS loading the 'Desktop emulator app'.

[dangel]

Which? Examples of Win8 RTM being worse than the beta? Well Metr.. sorry Windows 8-style User Interface, snapped front and centre. The beta at least semi-pretended to be a desktop OS, had a 'start menu', as laughable as it was, rather than being a tablet OS loading the 'Desktop emulator app'.

Eh? All those things work almost exactly the same between the CP and RTM builds for me - in fact the only difference was the tweaking of icons sizes/text for desktop proper apps, some new backgrounds and the new theme for the desktop. Whilst being far from perfect it's not gone backward and nothing you've said there makes any sense/puts on light on that. What build was the 'beta'? I only used the DP, CP and RTM builds.

[aidanjt]

Eh? All those things work almost exactly the same between the CP and RTM builds for me

Not the beta.

[dangel]

Not the beta.

Which one? There is no spoon beta.

[Agent]

http://log.nadim.cc/?p=78

You'd think they'd make it clear this was happening.

[blueball]

For me the mouse wheel scrolls just fine! Which app?

Initially when I saw the scroll bar showing info off the right of the screen I didin't even try to use the mouse wheel. Having gone back in and tried it I can say that rolling the mouse wheel up down does indeed move the screen left/right.

How bloody retarded is that!!!!!

How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?

None! They just define darkness as the new daytime!

[tombonez]

After having a full toy with the RTM I still don't know what to make of it, somewhat liking it though.

[dangel]

How bloody retarded is that!!!!!

I find it quite convenient - there's no pleasing some!