News - Computer hacker Gary McKinnon avoids US extradition

[mikerr]

The European law of human rights screws our courts up left right and centre, if we did not have to abide to that it would be a different story and our country would be better off financially.

What Gary did was illegal in the eyes of the US, not only did he break in to there computers but he left messages in there, personally I think he should be brought to justice in this country, yes he might not be a bad person but there have to be boundary's.

Neither was it limited to silly messages, he also deleted files and accounts:

deleted critical operating system files from nine computers and this led to a 24 hour shutdown of 2000 computers in the Washington network of the US Military,;

- deleted 2,455 user accounts on one particular US Army computer;

- deleted system files and logs from computers at the US Naval Weapons Station responsible for the identity, location, physical condition, staffing and battle readiness of US Navy ships, rendering the station's entire network of over 300 computers inoperable

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...cide-concerns/

Given the (OTT) message he left "I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels", it gives lie to the "autistic kid just looking for ufo stuff"

[ZaO]

So are Hexus readers now in favour of the Human Rights act and its use to block extradition etc.? I could have sworn that not so long ago people were calling for it to be abolished..

I am against anyone going to jail for anything and have felt that way for a long time. I bet anyone who cries for people to be locked up and then gets locked up them self would feel different about it. Even if this kid hacked my personal computer and stole everything I've got I wouldn't want them locked in a cage. It doesn't help the world to do that.

[Geoff I]

Neither was it limited to silly messages, he also deleted files and accounts:


http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...cide-concerns/

Given the (OTT) message he left "I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels", it gives lie to the "autistic kid just looking for ufo stuff"

And thats why he should be put on trial in this country, so he can be humiliated into what he has done, he should never get away with this crime.

[Saracen]

I am against anyone going to jail for anything and have felt that way for a long time. I bet anyone who cries for people to be locked up and then gets locked up them self would feel different about it. Even if this kid hacked my personal computer and stole everything I've got I wouldn't want them locked in a cage. It doesn't help the world to do that.

On the other hand, I'd bet that most people would be frothing at the mouth at the notion that criminals can do whatever they like, as often as they like, and never face the risk of prison.

And, for example, would expect burglars to be punished, and if necessary, sent to prison. "Necessary" might be indicated, for example, by the fact that they've committed numerous offences, and community punishments have totally failed to elicit a modification to that offending behaviour.

Prison, even if it achieves nothing else, protects the public from the offender while they're locked up. For every day a recidivist burglar is locked up, it's a day someone isn't becoming a burglary victim as a result of that person.

I don't think you're going to get many people to agree with you that nobody should ever go to prison for anything. On the contrary, numerous polls indicate that public opinion rests firmly in the opposite direction.

[alpha channel]

Happy that he won't be extradited? I'd say so if for no other reason than this guy, an individual, made US cyber security look silly and they've got their panties in a wad (as they would say) because he's made them look inept and we've finally grown a bit of a backbone and stopped bowing and scraping at their every whim (at that what it looks like sometimes, the special relationship only seems to flow in one direction).

It seems (note the seems) all too easy for private individuals to be carted off to the mighty US for an extended holiday in one of their lock ups while extraditing anyone from the US seems on par with getting blood from a stone.

Only the gods know what a state sponsored attack would do to their systems if they had managed a similar sort of penetration at least he's highlighted that weakness while doing minimal damage (if any, our American cousins do like to over dramatise thing don;t they) and, hopefully, they've plugged it.

[Saracen]

....

It seems (note the seems) all too easy for private individuals to be carted off to the mighty US for an extended holiday in one of their lock ups while extraditing anyone from the US seems on par with getting blood from a stone.

....

Easy?

Hmmm.

11 years of intensive legal battles, discussions between PM and President, and a final decision from the Home Secretary to block it anyway.

Yup, extradited at the drop of a hat, clearly.

[TheAnimus]

this man's not a bad guy. screw them. the usa rulers are criminals and so are ours.

The guy was messing about with other peoples computer systems, which are in some way related to defense of their realm. He left taunts goading them, he knew what he was doing was illegal.

He deserves punishment for that.

Computer security is no difference to that of a home. Just because I can break in, doesn't mean its OK.

[grizzla]

As far as i am aware they were fighting against his extradition to the US. His mother was interviewed this morning on BBC Breakfast she accepted the fact that he could likely face prosecution in the UK, they were not against him being held accountable for what he had done.

[ZaO]

On the other hand, I'd bet that most people would be frothing at the mouth at the notion that criminals can do whatever they like, as often as they like, and never face the risk of prison.

And, for example, would expect burglars to be punished, and if necessary, sent to prison. "Necessary" might be indicated, for example, by the fact that they've committed numerous offences, and community punishments have totally failed to elicit a modification to that offending behaviour.

Prison, even if it achieves nothing else, protects the public from the offender while they're locked up. For every day a recidivist burglar is locked up, it's a day someone isn't becoming a burglary victim as a result of that person.

I don't think you're going to get many people to agree with you that nobody should ever go to prison for anything. On the contrary, numerous polls indicate that public opinion rests firmly in the opposite direction.

I don't expect lots of people to agree with me. I also think lots of people opinions are based way to much on things other people tell them. Anyways... I'm not saying anyone should be able to get away with anything they like. Just saying that locking people in cages does no good. Especially when someone who does a non violent crime gets locked in with violent people. I know this is gonna sound a bit cheesy but I don't believe in teaching by fear. Teaching people not to do things out of fear is completely wrong and it's sickening to me that so many people firmly believe in that method. It's better to teach people with compassion as to why they shouldn't do certain things because of the negative affects it will have.

The guy was messing about with other peoples computer systems, which are in some way related to defense of their realm. He left taunts goading them, he knew what he was doing was illegal.

He deserves punishment for that.

Computer security is no difference to that of a home. Just because I can break in, doesn't mean its OK.

Well I just think the situation is ironic. The leaders of the US are far worse than this guy. They should be punished if anyone should.

[TheAnimus]

Well I just think the situation is ironic. The leaders of the US are far worse than this guy. They should be punished if anyone should.

[Saracen]

I don't expect lots of people to agree with me.
....

And that, of course, is fine. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

....

I also think lots of people opinions are based way to much on things other people tell them.
....

Not doubt true, much of the time.

.... Anyways... I'm not saying anyone should be able to get away with anything they like. Just saying that locking people in cages does no good. Especially when someone who does a non violent crime gets locked in with violent people.

....

Well, there's a difference between a position that not everybody in jail should be there, including non-violent offences, and what you said, which as a reminder, was ....

I am against anyone going to jail for anything ...

What do you suggest as a practical alternative for, let's say, Ian Huntley, or Dr Harold Shipman, or the Moors murderers, or .... I could go on.

.... I know this is gonna sound a bit cheesy but I don't believe in teaching by fear. Teaching people not to do things out of fear is completely wrong and it's sickening to me that so many people firmly believe in that method. It's better to teach people with compassion as to why they shouldn't do certain things because of the negative affects it will have.
....

Jail is not just about teaching, or rehabilitation, though that's obviously part of it. It's also about punishment, which acts in part as a deterrent and in part as a help towards closure for the victims, but also as a preventative. Just as the recidivist burglar I mentioned isn't creating new burglary victims while he's banged up, so Ian Huntley isn't murdering any more little girls, and Brady and Hindley aren't still on a killing spree.

So .... if we never bang up "anyone ... for anything, what do we do with the likes of Huntley, Brady and Hindley, while we're teaching them, "with compassion" that murdering little kids or old people is .... erm .... wrong, and informing them that it'll have "negative effects", like depriving people of their lives and their families of their loved ones?

And how many more kids have to die before Huntley works out he was a naughty boy?

Of course, there is one other option that absolutely prevents the likes of Huntley and Brady killing again, and that keeps them out of jail. And personally, I have no problem with it for cases like those. But I'd guess you may not be in favour of that option either. So, what level if risk does society have to accept, how many more victims do their have to be, while we compassionately "teach" people that murdering kids, or arguably worse, serially abusing them, isn't acceptable social behaviour?

We all live under a social contract, don't you think? We've given up instant local "justice" and lynch mobs, on the basis that society's justice protects us, holds us all to standards and punishes those that don't, or in many cases, won't abide by that contract.

Jail is a central part of that contract, and a fundamental and core part of jail is that it prevents re-offending, while the offender is locked up.

[ZaO]

@Saracen - I am against people going to jail yeh. Rehabilitation is something I believe in though. And if that means keeping dangerous people from roaming the streets while that is in process then so be it. I think what I meant was jail as we know it. Which is why I sort of emphasized "locking someone in a cage".

These teachings need to start with parents and their kids. Some people are going to turn out pretty bad even with these teachings, sure. So we have to do our best with them. I think people need to stop giving into the fear that the media loves to create, crying out for crazy laws that suppress us even more. It's a big deception and masses are falling for it. We'll be taxed on the air we breathe one day. Oh wait, maybe that's already in place lol....

I don't feel like I personally opted in on this "social contract". I barely have any faith in our justice system I'm afraid to say. In fact I have barely any faith in the entire ruling system. They're all criminal gangsters with some outlandish double standards.

[Jimbo75]

The US military should be thankful that they got hacked by a single person and were able to patch up the issues before they really got hacked by a bunch of paid Chinese professionals.

[ZaO]

The US military should be thankful that they got hacked by a single person and were able to patch up the issues before they really got hacked by a bunch of paid Chinese professionals.

Haha. They could've easily set this kid up anyway and we're all here judging him when he may not have even done it.

[Agent]

The European law of human rights screws our courts up left right and centre, if we did not have to abide to that it would be a different story and our country would be better off financially.

We'd be better off financially if we used slaves and only fed them enough food to survive and do their job.

Doesn't mean it's right though.

[Savas]

so in their logic, only once you're about to kill yourself that your human rights is at risk.. jees..

Talha Ahsan has the same condition as Gary McKinnon, yet Ahsan is over there now. i'm all for not extraditing our citizens to the US, but it IS indeed double standards.

you think you're "free", but you're not. while you point fingers at China..

more story's like this remind me of 'the enemy of the state' film. you're part of the system until something happens and you're life is turned upside down. you think it won't happen to you. similar to the guards during the holocaust that were just doing their "jobs"; killing all the jews and simply following orders thinking it's OK because they're working for the team.