News - Next Xbox will be “Always On, Always Connected”

[watercooled]

Safety first boys and girls:

It's not the point though, and I'm not just complaining about it on my own behalf, it's just a potential security disaster.

I have a similar opinion about laptops with built-in webcams, look how many invasive pictures have been stolen by malware for example. Malware happens, and the webcam greatly increases the harm they can do. I know it's not likely, but all devices like that including microphones etc, should have a physical, positive lock-out switch which physically disconnects the hardware.

I'd say the same about Kinect, but it's probably not possible while the console on as it is apparently mandatory, and while it's off you can just unplug the lot.

[McPhee]

However, if play-while-installing is allowed, why not just allow disc play in the first place, even if it harms load times but warns the user? Maybe they want to keep load times equal for online play, which is understandable, but in that case, playing-while-installing presumably wouldn't be allowed, or it defeats the purpose.

To flip this on it's head, why enable disc-only play if you have a hard drive in every console and can install the game in the background, resulting in better performance? All we have here is a system that is using the available hardware to pull the best possible performance. If files are prioritised appropriately, and transfer rate is sufficiently speedy, there's no reason why playing while installing should be less performant. It's all down to the implementation I guess. The idea is great.

Definitely agree on the 'Always connected' part being a problem. If it's a possibility, great. If it's mandatory (surely very unlikely?) then they can sod off.

[McPhee]

It's not the point though, and I'm not just complaining about it on my own behalf, it's just a potential security disaster.

I have a similar opinion about laptops with built-in webcams, look how many invasive pictures have been stolen by malware for example. Malware happens, and the webcam greatly increases the harm they can do. I know it's not likely, but all devices like that including microphones etc, should have a physical, positive lock-out switch which physically disconnects the hardware.

I'd say the same about Kinect, but it's probably not possible while the console on as it is apparently mandatory, and while it's off you can just unplug the lot.

Samsung's phones use the front-facing camera for stuff like orientation-lock and scrolling, meaning the camera is always on. Turned the camera features off for the exact reasons that you are getting at. It's probably harmless, but definitely creepy.

[MrNeil]

being online all the time !! Would that mean you have to pay for the Xbox live subscription to play any or all games ????

[HalloweenJack]

well you need xbox gold to play online anyway. the online all the time will likely be in addition to online services for authentication purposes only

[Preacher]

I'm an Xbox owner but have to say its funny how Sony focused on graphical prowess and Microsoft on software features. Guessing it can't compete!

[Zerox]

Argh.

Why do I need to have a kinect bundled with a console?

I have no need nor want for such a device, and why does the article say that the new Kinect is required for the new Xbox to operate? Is it just too much for me to just play the damn game without all of these stupid peripherals trying to disrupt my experience?

But otherwise I am interested about the whole "no optical disc needed" idea. Is it somehow different from the last Xbox where people could put the game on the HDD and have the disc in the disc drive for authentication?

Could this be the feature that prevents used game sales, namely put the content on the hdd and *bam* the disc gets formatted. Possibly.

Hopefully the "always on" feature is one of a range of power states, and hence would allow people who just want to turn the console off completely have the option to do so.

[watercooled]

Well it's impossible to format/erase a pressed optical disc, so that's why I'm thinking something like Steam, where you get a code to install the game, and a disc to install from. It doesn't preclude the possibility of selling, but it puts the choice/control in MS's hands.

[crossy]

Well it's impossible to format/erase a pressed optical disc, so that's why I'm thinking something like Steam, where you get a code to install the game, and a disc to install from. It doesn't preclude the possibility of selling, but it puts the choice/control in MS's hands.

Aye, that's what confused me about Sleeping Dogs - I bought the retail box, but it seemed that the disk was really just a way to get the Steam client on your system, and then the actual app was downloaded from Steam. I can't help wondering if it'd be possible to do some kind of hybrid arrangement where you got the main app from the optical disk, but the installer then downloaded content that would be on a second (or third, fourth, etc) disk from XBL.

With that said, I'm not impressed with the idea of DVD disks as an install medium - sure I really want that for my legacy XBox360 games (assuming the new console plays them!), but I would have really liked to see a movement to flash storage - high capacity SD cards are easily available, so it'd have been nice to be able to use those. And yes, I realise that a DVD disk is a couple of pence, but a 16GB SD card (which would replace two DVDs) is about £10. On the other hand there's size reductions, install/play speed increases, capacity increases, etc.

Why do I need to have a kinect bundled with a console? I have no need nor want for such a device, and why does the article say that the new Kinect is required for the new Xbox to operate? Is it just too much for me to just play the damn game without all of these stupid peripherals trying to disrupt my experience?

Easy to say now, but I'll say with certainty that the current Kinect does make using the dashboard a little bit nicer (and certainly more impressive to relatives etc - Minority Report stylee). I'm willing to be a bit more open minded about it's utility - especially as the smart money is on the UI being MUI - which is definitely better with touch.

I'll grant your point about the usage in games, but to my mind this is a chicken-and-egg situation - if the developers can't bank on that capability being there then there's less incentive to use it. Personally speaking an improved Kinect (that can operate at around 50 cm distance, or less) coupled with FULL UI support (because the current Kinect feels very much an add-on, since there's times when you have to fall back to the controller).

Also a reminder that Kinect isn't just limited to body tracking, but also includes voice recognition - so there's another feature that could be leveraged into games if the console's OS supports it properly.

I'm an Xbox owner but have to say its funny how Sony focused on graphical prowess and Microsoft on software features. Guessing it can't compete!

PS3 owner then? Actually that's probably a reasonable statement - in fact I'd also suggest that MS has pushed their online features more, whereas Sony push the "media centre" aspect. Horses for courses.

Samsung's phones use the front-facing camera for stuff like orientation-lock and scrolling, meaning the camera is always on.

If you're talking about the modern Samsung droid phones then I'm reasonably sure you're wrong - certainly the S3 doesn't do this because I can cover up the camera and orientation change works fine. As far as I know (mere phone user) it's a combo of gyroscope and accelerometer that's used. The S4 does use the camera for scroll control, but that's a new feature. Oh, and what about the Samsung phones that don't include a ffc?

[watercooled]

You can actually install the game from the Steam disc too to save having to download it. You'll often get updates downloaded once it's installed however. Also, the disc can't be used for installation until the release date, if you want to preload you have to download an encrypted copy from the Steam servers, and the key to unlock them can be downloaded on release - it takes a few minutes to process everything. I think the disc is also encrypted somehow but can't be copied for HDD until release for some reason, although that might have changed now.

Also, I was playing with an S3 mini a few days ago and it seems to have some camera-operated features. For example, you can set it so the screen stays on while you're looking at it.

[ETR316]

ANYONE HERE WHO COMPLAINS ABOUT MSFT BEING ON ALL THE TIME, SORRY TO SAY IS AN IDIOT, WHY? BECAUSE WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR CELL PHONES DO? ON MOST OF THE TIME, and all of you who are worried about being tracked and privacy issues will most likely be the first ones to run out and buy a "SMART WATCH", lemmings.

THAT is what you should be concerned about, they will be able to track your every move, BUT, I bet you wont bitch moan and complain about that now will you? unless it has Microsoft on it.

dummies... sorry for the use of cap locks. shame on me... hahaha

[Preacher]

Ok fanboy take a deep breath and calm down.

There is a massive difference in power requirements between an always on phone and xbox.

I own a 360 and had an original xbox, best console ever IMO, I have a windows pc, a Microsoft keyboard and two of their mice. Does this entitle me to a view without being flamed?

[Saracen]

ANYONE HERE WHO COMPLAINS ABOUT MSFT BEING ON ALL THE TIME, SORRY TO SAY IS AN IDIOT, WHY? BECAUSE WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR CELL PHONES DO? ON MOST OF THE TIME, and all of you who are worried about being tracked and privacy issues will most likely be the first ones to run out and buy a "SMART WATCH", lemmings.

THAT is what you should be concerned about, they will be able to track your every move, BUT, I bet you wont bitch moan and complain about that now will you? unless it has Microsoft on it.

dummies... sorry for the use of cap locks. shame on me... hahaha

That attitude is way below an acceptable standard on HEXUS. Calling other members "idiots" and "dummies" is a direct breach of our rules, which I suggest you read.

Do it again and your account will be suspended.

[watercooled]

Not that it really justifies a response, but for the sake of anyone reading, I will anyway.

There are better ways to express your views, but if you'd taken the time to read the thread (calmly), you'd see most of your questions, if you can call them that, have been answered already.

I've said it elsewhere on the forum, but it does seem it's very unpopular to speak negatively about MS lately? And I don't see how this is an attack on MS exactly, they're criticisms which may or may not apply to one of their unreleased products.

In terms of privacy, as I said this is nothing specific to the Xbox, it's a valid concern for plenty of devices from phones to laptops - malicious software can and has stolen data from inputs, e.g. camera, on plenty of occasions.

As for always on, as I also said earlier, this really depends on a) power consumption b) whether it's configurable and c) what it's used for. It's useful for phones to remain 'on' constantly so they can receive calls and messages (i.e. kind of what they're designed for) although when the screen is off they should be in a very low-power state where the application processor is nearly off and the baseband is running in an idle mode.

Similar privacy concerns can, of course, apply to phones e.g. a malicious app may report your location to its owner, but who do you mean by 'they'? If you mean operators, they can technically track your phone through signal triangulation regardless of whether it's a smartphone/watch or something from early 90's. In fact knowing your location (well, signal strength at various towers) is important for cell handoffs. Operators don't really care about your location beyond that, although police can gain permission for obvious reasons. Course aggregate data collected by some apps, assuming proper implementation, shouldn't really violate privacy of individuals as it shouldn't be personally identifiable.

[crossy]

That attitude is way below an acceptable standard on HEXUS. Calling other members "idiots" and "dummies" is a direct breach of our rules, which I suggest you read.
Do it again and your account will be suspended.

Seriously? Personally I thought that, while being a bit on the juvenile side, there wasn't anything really in that post to take umbrage at. I thought the "insulting behaviour" provision was more targetted and/or on the use of stronger language. And actually I think I know what the poster was aiming at - namely that Microsoft (arguably) do get held in more suspicion than others.

Then again, I did get banned from a web forum last year - for asking a question comparing two products and using the first two links I got from Google in the post (and these were on shop sites which apparently was a no-no). I'll consider myself indirectly warned.


ETR316: Caps shouting is decided uncool bro' - chill ma homie.

I've said it elsewhere on the forum, but it does seem it's very unpopular to speak negatively about MS lately?

Hey, if anyone wants someone to speak ill of Microsoft - in the interest of balance and providing there's a free-pass from Saracen's ban-hammer - then I'll be more than happy to oblige. Especially after spending some time trying to figure out why my Windows7 installation suddenly seems to have taken a liking to BSOD'ing shortly after startup/login. For example I had three attempts to try and get Chrome and Media Player running at the same time yesterday - eventually gave up and switched to iTunes. Damn you Windows!

In terms of privacy, as I said this is nothing specific to the Xbox, it's a valid concern for plenty of devices from phones to laptops

Given the usual location for these devices is in the bedroom, there surely must be Simpson's style "think of the children" concerns about the Kinect's camera, (and the "well the old one was okay" defence doesn't work since that was an optional product, whereas the new console seems to need its Kinect). Microsoft must be aware of these concerns, (and hopefully doing something about them), else they are deserving of the "idiots" and "dummies" descriptions.

As for always on, as I also said earlier, this really depends on a) power consumption b) whether it's configurable and c) what it's used for.

With me it's definitely (b) and (c) since I can't see a console using more power than my PC. If the new XBox has to be "always on(line)" then first off I can't see why, and secondly that's GOT to make it less desirable than the PS4. Again, I can't see Microsoft being unaware of this.

If you mean operators, they can technically track your phone through signal triangulation regardless of whether it's a smartphone/watch or something from early 90's. In fact knowing your location (well, signal strength at various towers) is important for cell handoffs. Operators don't really care about your location beyond that, although police can gain permission for obvious reasons. Course aggregate data collected by some apps, assuming proper implementation, shouldn't really violate privacy of individuals as it shouldn't be personally identifiable.

I seem to remember one (or more?) of the big US operators got slapped last year for privacy violations - think it was Verizon. I remember that it was something about uploading people's GPS tracks to their servers along with cell strength information. The justification was that they were using the information to check service quality, but there was a right old hoo-haa about it.

As to the police using location services, anyone who watches US cop shows should be well aware of that. Heck, if you've seen any more than half a dozen episodes of Hawaii Five-O or NCIS will have seen them attempt to trace some miscreants location - with no sign of any warrant etc either.