News - Twelve Steam Machine hardware partners revealed so far at CES

[Corky34]

Its a little more than just a custom GUI on top of Debian Linux..
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTU0MzY

SteamOS is using the Linux 3.10 kernel, but it's not a vanilla kernel. There's many patches added onto the Linux 3.10 kernel for SteamOS, particularly taken from the real-time patch-set and other changes. As pointed out by a Phoronix reader, "SteamOS appears to be using linux 3.10 - PREEMPT_RT_FULL (unsurprisingly) with a heavy amount of patching (282 patches for -rt in the 'all' architectures/folder, alone). The kernel is also using aufs and they seem to be sitting on some bug fixes for upstream on top of that. Some of the -rt related hacks they are using i have seen (in one case, i am using the same patch for ntrig)... It looks like they have gone to a lot of effort getting the kernel just right for their needs."

The xcompmgr package is still popular though among lightweight Linux users. In looking through the code, steamos-compositor is much-changed compared to upstream xcompmgr. The diff between steamos-compositor and upstream xcompmgr is over a 4,200 line patch.

Changes that Valve made to their Debian Wheezy base included backporting eglibc 2.17, adding updated graphics drivers, switching to the Linux 3.10 kernel, auto-updates from Valve SteamOS repositories, and they have written their own custom graphics compositor.
About this SteamOS compositor running atop X.Org, Valve's notes say, "Custom graphics compositor designed to provide a seamless transition between Steam, its games and the SteamOS system overlay."

[directhex]

Its a little more than just a custom GUI on top of Debian Linux..
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTU0MzY

It's not an RT kernel, and not very patched at all. Phoronix don't know what they're talking about.

[crossy]

It's not an RT kernel, and not very patched at all. Phoronix don't know what they're talking about.

You got any hard information on that? I was under the impression that Phoronix was - on the whole - reasonably trustworthy. Unlike The Register.

Part of the problem with SteamOS (which I'm a lot more interested in than a SteamBox) is that there's a positive lack of hard detail. Remembering even basic stuff like the assumption (?) that it was based on Ubuntu since that's Valve's distro of choice.

One thing I will say though - it's pretty self evident that Valve should be studiously avoiding changing the low-levels of the OS. Tinkering with stuff like the kernel means potential hassle further down the road - e.g. games that work fine on SteamOS, but work poorly (or even not at all) on a Steam-For-Linux install.

[directhex]

You got any hard information on that? I was under the impression that Phoronix was - on the whole - reasonably trustworthy. Unlike The Register.

Part of the problem with SteamOS (which I'm a lot more interested in than a SteamBox) is that there's a positive lack of hard detail. Remembering even basic stuff like the assumption (?) that it was based on Ubuntu since that's Valve's distro of choice.

One thing I will say though - it's pretty self evident that Valve should be studiously avoiding changing the low-levels of the OS. Tinkering with stuff like the kernel means potential hassle further down the road - e.g. games that work fine on SteamOS, but work poorly (or even not at all) on a Steam-For-Linux install.

The full extent of Valve's changes on top of Debian's changes:

directhex@barnabas:/tmp$ debdiff linux_3.10.11-1.dsc linux_3.10.11-1+steamos7.dsc | diffstat
dpkg-source: warning: extracting unsigned source package (/tmp/linux_3.10.11-1+steamos7.dsc)
 changelog                                                               |   47 
 config.defines.dump                                                     | 3004 ++++----
 config/kernelarch-x86/config                                            |    2 
 control                                                                 | 3428 +++++-----
 control.md5sum                                                          |    2 
 patches/0001-drm-intel-Only-smash-VGA-SR01-register-if-intel-is-d.patch |   51 
 patches/0001-fbcon-Clean-up-fbcon-data-in-fb_info-on-FB_EVENT_FB_.patch |   88 
 patches/defer-input-nodes-and-led-support                               |  493 +
 patches/series                                                          |    4 
 rules                                                                   |    6 
 rules.gen                                                               |  474 -
 templates/temp.image.plain/postinst                                     |    4 
 12 files changed, 4147 insertions(+), 3456 deletions(-)

The confusion in Phoronix comes from comparing the linux-source package to an upstream kernel.org kernel release - because Debian builds a whole lot of different types of kernel from one source package, the Debian kernel tree may appear heavily patched (but Valve are just using the normal -amd64- configuration, same as any normal PC would by default)

[crossy]

The full extent of Valve's changes on top of Debian's changes:

The confusion in Phoronix comes from comparing the linux-source package to an upstream kernel.org kernel release - because Debian builds a whole lot of different types of kernel from one source package, the Debian kernel tree may appear heavily patched (but Valve are just using the normal -amd64- configuration, same as any normal PC would by default)

Thanks for taking the time to do this. Interesting, but without me having to spend much mental effort! (lol).

Wonder if Valve are going to be "solid open source citizens" and offer their patches back to the parent Debian project (if they're any good of course). That was a criticism levelled at Canonical - that they changed stuff Debian->Ubuntu and then didn't offer the improvements back. Not commenting on the truth, or otherwise, of this oft-quoted criticism.

(The other oft-quoted criticism being that Canoncial "fixed" stuff and promptly broke it).

[Plasmastorm]

Imo this whole steam machine malarkey is heading the same was as Android mobile phones.
Serious fragmentation as every one has different specs. Can see it now, someone recommends a steam machine to a mate who then goes out and buys one.
Then turns out it's not the same as his friends cause he spotted one for $100 less and got that thinking he was being smart.

Say what you want about consoles, at least you know that the masses are going to know what they are buying at the time cause although they change slightly over the years essentially they are the same.

[kalniel]

Imo this whole steam machine malarkey is heading the same was as Android mobile phones.

You mean an almost unrivalled success? I don't think Steam Machines will have anything like the success of Android phones, but you never know.

[GeorgeStorm]

I could definitely see them different models being an issue in the situation Plasmastorm mentioned, which is entirely possible/very likely in my opinion. I assume they'll have some kind of rating system to give people a quick idea of how they'll perform in comparison to each other across the different models from different manufacturers.

[shaithis]

Imo this whole steam machine malarkey is heading the same was as Android mobile phones.
Serious fragmentation as every one has different specs. Can see it now, someone recommends a steam machine to a mate who then goes out and buys one.
Then turns out it's not the same as his friends cause he spotted one for $100 less and got that thinking he was being smart.

Say what you want about consoles, at least you know that the masses are going to know what they are buying at the time cause although they change slightly over the years essentially they are the same.

AS with many things in life, somethings strong point can also be it's weakness.

You see varied specs as being bad, many see it as good......look at Android

It means that someone who is happier with a slower, cheaper system can have that and someone else who wants an all-singing-all-dancing system can have theirs.....both running the same software.

This is the main reason Apple are losing out so much to Android currently, many people like to decide what to buy, not be told.

[Zeven]

The last version of steam OS i have seen did not play nice with AMD at all. They better fix that before release.
But i'm still not able to see this as anything more then yet another prebuild Alienware like overpriced pc. The only difference is the OS

Things are looking up.

[Savas]

AS with many things in life, somethings strong point can also be it's weakness.

You see varied specs as being bad, many see it as good......look at Android

It means that someone who is happier with a slower, cheaper system can have that and someone else who wants an all-singing-all-dancing system can have theirs.....both running the same software.

This is the main reason Apple are losing out so much to Android currently, many people like to decide what to buy, not be told.

Well said, and enough said. Anyone who is complaining about the specs is really clueless.. Not all games on Steam require top end hardware, plus other games that aren't on Steam too. First, it's a waste of money if you don't plan on playing those game and just want some casual fun, second it's a choice of your budget and how long term you want your hardware to last... DUH.

Moreover,do people really think that 100% of all PC titles in 6 years time will run fine on even the $699 spec SteamBox?? A PS4 will run every title made for it fine. Will a PC be simple plug and play like a console??

Do you have any clue how Steam works? It's not actually complicated to right click on a game, purchase it, install it and run it.. I count 4 clicks, IS there less on consoles? And if you've purchased and installed already, that's two less clicks to get it running..

I have a few PS1 and PS2 titles I can't play on PS3 and probably 4... So why is it justifiable for a console to move and upgrade itself, but not when PC's do it?? And please don't just say I require a PS1 or PS2, because then you should downgrade your Operating System to be compatible with the game when it was release. Your points are full of holes and really one-sided bias.

This whole concept of longevity is so warped.. Console systems last for a few years because they have to.. They can't just release a game that the hardware of the machine can't handle, nobody would bother buying it.. PC game developers can release a game that doesn't work on an older machine, because they know that newer machines are out there already, and it's a fine balance between enhancements in gaming graphics and having the average user be able to run it.. Hence the life span of PC gaming systems are less than consoles. There is nothing to do with quality or consistency... I don't know why you act like older consoles are immune from breaking down... If they spent the same time in planning, you'd get the same result with a PC gaming system.

A game made 6 years in the future that can't run on the current Steam Box now, will be a FAR FAR better game than anything the PS4 can even handle, so how is that the same bloody comparison.. Seriously? Wait, unless you have a magical PS4 that upgrades its hardware itself.