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Thread: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewster0101 View Post
    Mobile phone charging sorted - EU PM's can go home knowing they've done their bit of hard work

    Ukraine can wait another day......
    I'm not a fan of the over bureaucratic mess the EU has become, but that's not really fair. The people who have written this draft would have little, if anything to do with the situation in Ukraine. Not only that, but this started way before the Ukraine situation.

    The MEPs had to do little more than cast a vote, which is literally seconds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    Pretty sure this is more about the wall wart than it is about the cable and connector anyway.

    Be nice if a decent, reversible USB3.0 compliant connector became standard though, the current micro USB 3.0 is... not the best

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    I thought this had already happened a few years ago, which was why most mobiles are micro usb now.

    So they certainly seem to have dragged there heels making it a standard.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    about time this happened. i have a drawer full of chargers for various devices. they can all be binned now.

    i would prefer wireless charging becoming the standard. much better way.
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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny_Y8S View Post
    LOL. Apple are already in compliance with the standard. Just because it's being extended to tablets etc doesn't change anything. This is clearly a subject you know very little about, or why Apple created their adaptor to allow micro USB charging.
    Erm, I DIDN'T say that Apple would be forced to drop their Lightning connector. So if they (Apple) decide to ship their i-Devices with a uUSB->Lightning converter then that's still compliant
    Edit: Others have said the same, now I've read the rest of the thread.
    And I very much doubt that Apple created their adapter out of the goodness of their corporate heart - it's probably more to being compliant with earlier moves from the EU. As I said before, there's some good arguments for replacing the uUSB connector with the Lightning connector as the standard, but that presupposes that Apple would let that happen.

    Now I'm not @work I've had a chance to read up a bit more and that confirms pretty much that you can put any connector you like, just as long as that "universal" charger can talk to it. And, assuming I'm reading it right, you can even go wireless - just as long as your wireless dock/pad/whatever can take a feed from the universal charger. I'm just hoping that the rule is tight enough to prohibit nonsense like that which Samsung perpetrated with the Galaxy Note and Tab tablets - altering the cabling etc, so you can only charge with their cable and their charger - they really deserve a good slap over that idiocy.

    (I also can't say as I care that much for the sneering tone in your post, but hey, I'm not that sensitive, so I'll let it pass)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny_Y8S View Post
    Apple gear gets resold or repurposed at the end of it's normal life and thus doesn't end up in landfill.
    Got any facts to back up that sweeping generalisation? No, thought not. (See I can do "sneery" too)
    I can't see many folks around still using the original iPhone - for example. And a quick Google search will show examples of where iDevices are no more magical than any other piece of technologic trash. At best they can expect to get stripped, and recycled safely. At worst, they (and HTC's, Samsung's, Sony's, Motorola's, Blackberry's, etc) end up in some 3rd world dump leaching lord-knows what into the groundwater. If you doubt me, then take off the iFan glasses and look at some of the reports from ecological campaigners like Greenpeace etc. It's pretty shocking how much harm our once-beloved essential devices cause when we decide that they're no longer "beloved" nor "essential".
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny_Y8S View Post
    I would say producing a quality long lasting product that people want to keep and use and that retains it's value over time is the best way of avoiding it going in landfill.
    As a generalism, that's true. However, with technology moving onwards so rapidly a product that was top of the line two years ago is merely middle of the road now. Take iPhone4S or Galaxy S3 - both top phones then, not so hot now. Or to take a real "outta there" example - Cray Y-MP supercomputer, arguably better built than any mobile phone, but definitely now "so last century". And I'm going to assume that when you said "value" you were speaking in a more ethereal "value to it's user" sense, rather than crass "dollars and cents" - since we both know that any piece of consumer electronics loses staggering amounts of resale value.
    Last edited by crossy; 17-03-2014 at 11:08 PM.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    I will say its good how most things can be charged off USB, I charge my 3DS at work with it plugged into the PC, I will say its not a standard connector but the power requirements are so its a 99p cable off ebay.

    I do fins it amusing in the office when somebody with an iphone needs a charger, use windows and android users all just shrug with our £1 cables.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Percy1983 View Post
    I will say its good how most things can be charged off USB, I charge my 3DS at work with it plugged into the PC, I will say its not a standard connector but the power requirements are so its a 99p cable off ebay.

    I do fins it amusing in the office when somebody with an iphone needs a charger, use windows and android users all just shrug with our £1 cables.
    But therein lies one reason why this is a bad idea - a common standard means you can plug your £500 phone into a £1 charger from China.

    Just like PCs, chargers can made made of exacting standards, which built-in protections against problems .... or not. How long before cheap chargers start blowing expensive phones, and/or tablets?

    Multiple chargers is a pain, but not as big a pain as having to buy a new device, because a cheap charger fried an expensive device and the manufacturer washed their hands of it.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    Phone 'chargers' aren't actually chargers as such and haven't been for a long time.
    They're just a +5v power supply. All of the battery charging logic is inside the phone itself.
    Cheap chargers are far more likely to blow themselves up than a phone, have seen a few cases of this counterfeit apple chargers which only exist because genuine chargers are seen as a rip off.

    It got so bad at one point apple would give you a genuine charger for handing in a fake for free.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    But therein lies one reason why this is a bad idea - a common standard means you can plug your £500 phone into a £1 charger from China.

    Just like PCs, chargers can made made of exacting standards, which built-in protections against problems .... or not. How long before cheap chargers start blowing expensive phones, and/or tablets?

    Multiple chargers is a pain, but not as big a pain as having to buy a new device, because a cheap charger fried an expensive device and the manufacturer washed their hands of it.
    Hmm, at the risk of incurring your wrath, I don't agree with your logic here. After all if we're back in the bad old days of a 1:1 mapping between chargers and phones, then there's nothing to stop your hypothetical idiot with a £500 smartphone from buying a manufacturer-specific no-name "compatible" charger from "dahn the market" and frying their phone.

    I'm being unkind here, but there's arguably a bit of Darwinism going on there - if you're dumb enough to trust some really cheap charger, then maybe you deserved to get "burned", (not literally of course - I wouldn't wish that on anyone ... other than perhaps that bozo in a silver Volvo XC90 who tried to run me off the road on Sunday past).

    Is dodgy chargers any different to those dodgy batteries that you see on eBay etc?

    I'm probably being very naive but maybe an "EU standard charger" would be easier to enforce standards on - some kind of test stamp, CE mark perhaps. Then educate the public not to buy anything without the mark.

    I know what you're getting at, but I don't see non-universal chargers as being the answer. Stronger trading standards type enforcement and a better educated public is.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    It doesn't seem that long ago that charging by USB was really bad, the low voltage and low current available limited what the phone manufacturer could do and a "proper" high voltage charger seemed better in every way. Things improved, now it works well.

    I have two USB leads by the side of my bed for charging stuff. A charging mat would be so convenient compared to finding where the cable has dropped to on the floor of an evening, but if the phone company is forced to include a usb charging socket then they may well never bother with new technology, so it won't get improved to the point that you see it as useful.

    If you aren't convinced, how about micro displayport? With DockPort extensions that gives you charging, display and usb3 in a single connector. If that is banned then someone needs a damned good kicking.
    Finding the cable on the bedside is already resolved with a dock stand if it's a problem, which IMHO is better than a charging mat, I'd prefer the the efficiency of a wired connection over the slight easier picking up - I'd still prefer a regular cable so I can pick it up, use it *and* charge it though! Wireless charging might improve but it has a long way to go yet.

    Well there we go see, Dockport - there already is something technically better on the horizon... I'm concerned over standardisation just stifles innovation for very little benefit, if we continue to get given a 5V PSU with every new device (which we probably will) then there will still be a mountain of waste spares anyway.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Percy1983 View Post
    I do fins it amusing in the office when somebody with an iphone needs a charger, use windows and android users all just shrug with our £1 cables.
    I find it even funnier when someone goes looking for a "blackberry" or "kindle" charger, when they could use the same micro USB charger they have been using for some other device You see it offshore a lot. Lots of people with all the gadgets and no real idea how they work or how to use the properly.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    This is why the consumer gets screwed over constantly.. Instead of pushing for more progress like these kind of actions to make STANDARDS, there's idiots bashing EU in some manner, talking about Ukraine and Apple or cheap batteries with warped logic they think makes remotely any sense.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    Quote Originally Posted by crossy View Post
    Hmm, at the risk of incurring your wrath, I don't agree with your logic here. After all if we're back in the bad old days of a 1:1 mapping between chargers and phones, then there's nothing to stop your hypothetical idiot with a £500 smartphone from buying a manufacturer-specific no-name "compatible" charger from "dahn the market" and frying their phone.

    I'm being unkind here, but there's arguably a bit of Darwinism going on there - if you're dumb enough to trust some really cheap charger, then maybe you deserved to get "burned", (not literally of course - I wouldn't wish that on anyone ... other than perhaps that bozo in a silver Volvo XC90 who tried to run me off the road on Sunday past).

    Is dodgy chargers any different to those dodgy batteries that you see on eBay etc?

    I'm probably being very naive but maybe an "EU standard charger" would be easier to enforce standards on - some kind of test stamp, CE mark perhaps. Then educate the public not to buy anything without the mark.

    I know what you're getting at, but I don't see non-universal chargers as being the answer. Stronger trading standards type enforcement and a better educated public is.
    I take your point, but ... two things.

    First, the danger is that if you give the impression that a 'standard' charger means any charger is the same as any other, then in the absence of carefully and effectively enforced standards, you encourage a race to the bottom. And, given the already huge workliad on Teading Standards, my bet is that enforcement will be sporadic, at best. It's not going to be a priority.

    And you also risk either, as someone suggested earlier, a mountain of chargers building up, or a race to cut costs on chargers. Or perhaps, manufacturers not including a charger at all, and if that gappens, it opens the possibility for all sorts of physical failure to be blamed on the charger .... which is made by someone else.

    After all, people will pay silly money for the latest, high-tech, fashion-statement phone, but the charger? Well, sexy it ain't. So, it'll be a cost reduction target for manufacturers, if they include one at all.

    Personally, I don't gave a problem with chargers. When I buy a new phone, I either sell, give away ir ditch the old one, in which case, the dedicated charger gets sold, given away or ditched with it. Whether dedicated or 'standard', I have one phone, one charger.

    For the computery types here (most of us) ever tried explaining to a non-computer-literate friend why a 500w PSU costing £8 is not the same thing as a 500w PSU cost £60?

    Personally, having taken a few apart over the years, I don't take chances on cheap PSUs, because while some of the price of more expensive brands may be marketing, a fair bit is component and design quality. When you make a really cheap variant, something gets sacrificed to get the cost down.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    You're picking and choosing what kind of reality/logic you like to follow.. You mention PSU and the choice to go between £8 or £60 and then here you're expecting consistency from the charges.

    That's the beauty of it. You buy a charger that YOU want and trust the same way you would with a PSU.. I don't see people crying about that. So you can spend whatever you want on a charger, hell it can be gold plated if that makes you happy.. Have you seen the HDMI cable market? I don't see that being plagued with cheap cables, in fact people are spending stupid amounts of money because they've think the digital signals some how come out better. The argument of "them" not knowing better actually doesn't even hold because the more they don't know, the easier it's to get them to buy the more expensive product.

    The real benefit here is you buy your preferred charger and you don't need to replace it. It's very simple. You've instantly cut down on WASTE and you also help yourself. Everybody wins... What's so hard about this to understand?

    If they fry their product, they'll know it was the dodgy charger they used, if it was the chargers fault, that doesn't mean globally everyone else's items have been fried at the same time.. Personally and I think most people will do is buy from a trusted place and not spend another second thinking about it.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Savas View Post
    You're picking and choosing what kind of reality/logic you like to follow.. You mention PSU and the choice to go between £8 or £60 and then here you're expecting consistency from the charges.

    That's the beauty of it. You buy a charger that YOU want and trust the same way you would with a PSU.. I don't see people crying about that. So you can spend whatever you want on a charger, hell it can be gold plated if that makes you happy.. Have you seen the HDMI cable market? I don't see that being plagued with cheap cables, in fact people are spending stupid amounts of money because they've think the digital signals some how come out better. The argument of "them" not knowing better actually doesn't even hold because the more they don't know, the easier it's to get them to buy the more expensive product.

    The real benefit here is you buy your preferred charger and you don't need to replace it. It's very simple. You've instantly cut down on WASTE and you also help yourself. Everybody wins... What's so hard about this to understand?

    If they fry their product, they'll know it was the dodgy charger they used, if it was the chargers fault, that doesn't mean globally everyone else's items have been fried at the same time.. Personally and I think most people will do is buy from a trusted place and not spend another second thinking about it.
    There are cheap PSUs with very poor filtering, voltage stability and so on, and there are properly designed PSUs with good design, good component quality, and so on. You use the cheap ones at you own risk. The same applies to chargers, at least for the more popular phones, and other devices, with cheap devices from typically less reputable far eastern sources. The buyer chooses, and takes the risk. But many buyers don't understand the risk, thinking that one 500w PSU is the same as another, but just a lot more expensive. If you "standardise", one risk you run is that people think any charger that fits a "standard EU connector" is the same as any other .... so they'll buy the cheap one, not realising that cheap manufacturer, poor quality control and lack of decent quality components can, and regularly does, lead to poor, and even dangerous, results.


    And Savas, knock off the patronising remarks about "choosing reality" and "what's so hard to understand". You're welcome to disagree with anyone here, and say so, but that kind of tone is not welcome here.

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    Re: News - EU votes yes to universal mobile phone charger

    Quote Originally Posted by kingpotnoodle View Post
    Finding the cable on the bedside is already resolved with a dock stand if it's a problem, which IMHO is better than a charging mat, I'd prefer the the efficiency of a wired connection over the slight easier picking up - I'd still prefer a regular cable so I can pick it up, use it *and* charge it though! Wireless charging might improve but it has a long way to go yet.

    Well there we go see, Dockport - there already is something technically better on the horizon... I'm concerned over standardisation just stifles innovation for very little benefit, if we continue to get given a 5V PSU with every new device (which we probably will) then there will still be a mountain of waste spares anyway.
    That would require a dock stand for at least a couple of different phones, a couple of different tablets and a Nook e-reader. As the items are all different sizes with charging ports all over the place, that would require at least 5 docking stands.

    Wireless would work regardless of device size so just one mat. If you assume headphones are bluetooth, TV output is over WiFi and charging is wireless then that would be all the ports removed from the case and perhaps we could have waterproof phones.

    My Nook reader and my Dad's Moto-G phone didn't come with a charging adapter, just a USB lead. I guess that for cheaper devices the mountain of chargers is already dropping.

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