News - Analysts: 92 per cent of all PC games sales are now digital

[ZaO]

I think some of you guys might be missing the point. You used to be able to sell physical games on. You know, the secondhand market n all... But I guess not all of us are old enough to remember such a crazy thing

[crossy]

Exactly. Point is, the physical media being used for much except backup. We could theoretically buy digital and keep a backup another way.

From a technical point of view you're correct in what you say about game. However, with a physical copy - especially one that doesn't DRM-style "activation codes" - you can uninstall and then give to someone else. And from what I've seen there's not that many of the digital distribution systems that allow you to "gift" a title to someone else. There's also what someone amusingly called the "digital KKK" - the Kindle Kill Kapability - where the publisher etc decides that you no longer deserve a certain title and either disables it remotely or deinstalls it without so much as a by-your-leave. It's a lot more difficult to hit that kill switch with a physical copy of a game.

I'm also curious what would happen to your digital library if the electronic service it relies on is closed for whatever reason. I strongly suspect that if Steam, Orgin, uPlay ceased-to-be then the libraries built up in these systems would become unplayable. Especially if the shutdown was the result of going out of business rather than a planned exit from the market.

CD's and DVD's - on the other hand - are a different kettle of fish. Like you and Brewster101 I listen to my music on phone or DAP, and watch the occasional film I've bought on tablet when I'm away from home. With the disk-based copies you have the freedom to cut those to any format you want, and in any quality you want. I've just iFlash'd an iPod Video I got from eBay and I'll be filling that 128GB with lossless format music - not something I could do if I'd bought digital copies where, for the overwhelming majority, your purchases will be delivered in lossy formats.

[kalniel]

And from what I've seen there's not that many of the digital distribution systems that allow you to "gift" a title to someone else. There's also what someone amusingly called the "digital KKK" - the Kindle Kill Kapability - where the publisher etc decides that you no longer deserve a certain title and either disables it remotely or deinstalls it without so much as a by-your-leave. It's a lot more difficult to hit that kill switch with a physical copy of a game.

I'm also curious what would happen to your digital library if the electronic service it relies on is closed for whatever reason. I strongly suspect that if Steam, Orgin, uPlay ceased-to-be then the libraries built up in these systems would become unplayable. Especially if the shutdown was the result of going out of business rather than a planned exit from the market.

Those are both DRM decisions though, nothing to do with digital distribution or not. You can have digital without DRM and then those points don't apply.

[Spud1]

I think some of you guys might be missing the point. You used to be able to sell physical games on. You know, the secondhand market n all... But I guess not all of us are old enough to remember such a crazy thing

Thats the main reason I don't buy physical PC games anymore, but I do for consoles. Console games you can still trade in and get reasonable money - PC games are worthless second hand

[ZaO]

Thats the main reason I don't buy physical PC games anymore, but I do for consoles. Console games you can still trade in and get reasonable money - PC games are worthless second hand

Yeh, same here! And this has to play a big role in why physical sales have dropped so much. There's pretty much no point in waiting for a physical copy to turn up anymore. The industry will try to make it sound like people have naturally moved over to digital. But really, they've forced it on us.

[kalniel]

Yeh, same here! And this has to play a big role in why physical sales have dropped so much. There's pretty much no point in waiting for a physical copy to turn up anymore. The industry will try to make it sound like people have naturally moved over to digital. But really, they've forced it on us.

Second hand price is driven by market demand. So how has the industry, by way of low second hand prices for PC games, forced us to move to digital?

[Spud1]

Second hand price is driven by market demand. So how has the industry, by way of low second hand prices for PC games, forced us to move to digital?

Many factors - but you can blame "DRM" or rather the account based implementation of it. Some console games suffer from the exact same problem.

In days gone by you got a CDKey printed on your case/manual/etc that you needed to install the game and then later play online, but that was about it. That key was fully transferable, so if you sold your game the new owner could still play the full game - single and multiplayer.

These days that is *very* rare - most games that have an online component require you to register your CD key with them, which permanently locks that key to you personally (or makes it very difficult to transfer it). This means that if you sold on the game, the new purchasers doesn't get the full game. They can't play online, can't get the additional DLC content that came with the physical copy etc etc. It becomes essentially worthless for most people.

The reasons these changes came into force are fairly obvious - although I never actually did it I know of many people who would buy a game, copy it, write down the CD key and return it the next day. Easy to do and particularly as copy protection of the time was pretty poor (most games used SafeDisc/C-Dilla/SecuROM etc which were simply to bypass, even more intelligent systems like F.A.D.E were broken in a few days).

It's not exactly that the price of 2nd hand games is low, its more that it's not possible to sell them on! That has long been a problem with digital only games (lack of transferability) but since physical games now have essentially the same limitation, the instant availability and generally lower price of digital games makes it a bit of a no brainer.

To clarify my earlier post - I do actually buy some physical games, but generally only collectors editions. I have a habit of buying all the Blizzard collectors editions (they are usually worth it) but when I think back over the past 2 years, the only physical PC games I have bought have been Blizzards.

[kalniel]

It's not exactly that the price of 2nd hand games is low, its more that it's not possible to sell them on!

The point was about 2nd hand game price being low driving move to digital. Which I'm questioning the factors behind.

[Spud1]

The point was about 2nd hand game price being low driving move to digital. Which I'm questioning the factors behind.

Taking that in isolation and forgetting my point that you can't even sell them on in most cases, it just removes the major benefit of a physical game. Why wait for one to arrive or spend the money going to a shop, when you can get the exact same experience (sans the art book etc if a collectors edition) instantly without moving out of your chair? When you could get 20-30% of your money back on a trade in, it was worth it. Now, its just not, even if you can find someone to take it.

[ZaO]

Second hand price is driven by market demand. So how has the industry, by way of low second hand prices for PC games, forced us to move to digital?

They've made it pointless buying physical games. It's no longer worth waiting for them to turn up. So we just buy digital instead, as we get to play them much sooner without loss of benefits. They want to kill the secondhand market, and are doing a good job of it, while making piracy increase (I assume).

I'm not at all against digital. I actually make and sell music. I can't afford to create physical products to sell. So mine is all digital. But I don't like the idea that you can't transfer your licence. I'm not for these massive corps trying to completely destroy the secondhand market. Locking purchases and warranties onto one person is just gross. Maybe someone can win me over with an explanation on that one. But I've never heard a good reason for it yet..

[kalniel]

Taking that in isolation and forgetting my point that you can't even sell them on in most cases

We already know you can't sell DRM games on in most cases, that was discussed earlier. The question was what does the industry have to do with the low cost of second hand games on PC?

, it just removes the major benefit of a physical game. Why wait for one to arrive or spend the money going to a shop, when you can get the exact same experience (sans the art book etc if a collectors edition) instantly without moving out of your chair? When you could get 20-30% of your money back on a trade in, it was worth it. Now, its just not, even if you can find someone to take it.

Buy why is the trade in price on PC games so low? And who drives that?

They've made it pointless buying physical games. It's no longer worth waiting for them to turn up. So we just buy digital instead, as we get to play them much sooner without loss of benefits. They want to kill the secondhand market, and are doing a good job of it, while making piracy increase (I assume).

OK, but why are second hand prices low and why is this the industries fault?

I'm not at all against digital. I actually make and sell music. I can't afford to create physical products to sell. So mine is all digital. But I don't like the idea that you can't transfer your licence. I'm not for these massive corps trying to completely destroy the secondhand market. Locking purchases and warranties onto one person is just gross. Maybe someone can win me over with an explanation on that one. But I've never heard a good reason for it yet..

Agreed, but that's an argument against DRM rather than digital. You can have DRM for a phyiscal product, or a digital one without DRM.

I think licensing can be an option - I like the way I can buy different license types for operating systems to reflect my usage, so that I get the best value for money. But that needs competition so that I choose it. Is their competition in PC games? - even more so I think - I can choose to buy great DRM free games.

As always the power is with the customer holding their wallet - if you support DRM-free then buy DRM-free and don't buy DRM. Back on topic, it's likely customer choice that's driven the preference for digital, not the industry.

[Spud1]

We already know you can't sell DRM games on in most cases, that was discussed earlier. The question was what does the industry have to do with the low cost of second hand games on PC?

Buy why is the trade in price on PC games so low? And who drives that?

OK, but why are second hand prices low and why is this the industries fault?

It's the same point i've already made really If you can't sell on the full game then its not worth as much (if anything). That's purely down to the industry making an active choice to kill off part of the 2nd hand market. As I mentioned this has affected console games too (the infamous "online pass" fiascos) although that has mostly died a death now due to the uproar it caused in a market that is ultimately much bigger than the PC gaming sector.

Allow people to sell on full games and you have a market again, prices would rise. I'm not blaming DRM for this as such, I guess it's more the implications.

[shaithis]

Glad of it. While it has annoyed some people, the vast majority of PC gamers are seeing substantially lower prices now....prices we might not have seen if the move to digital didn't happen.

The CD key market has gone mental lately though.......so many key stores I have to use 2 key site indexers and that still doesn't cover everyone!

[ZaO]

@kalniel - Your question has been answered multiple times already. The industry has made secondhand games worthless with the registration restrictions. The point is that physical copies of games did not suffer from this problem at first. They used to be something that you could sell on or trade, as the serial keys (if they had them) were transferable. Now they're not - why bother buying them? The industry has made this change happen.

I'm not actually against DRM. Piracy is a real problem which I aknowledge. And it really hurts digital creators. It happens to me, so I know firsthand how it feels. You put all that time, effort, love and money into creating something. Then people just take it for free and give you nothing for it. So I understand why the industry does some of the things it does. But I also believe in keeping the secondhand market alive. Licences should be transferable in my opinion (though someone might be able to persuade me otherwise. I'm open to that). And like I said before - I'm cool with it if the devs/publishers can set up a system for us to buy/sell/trade secondhand games where they take a little cut of each transaction. If they provide a decent platform for us to make these trades, then they're even more deserving of taking that cut I can totally understand why they don't want to do that as well. I get that we just buy a licence to use a piece of software. People are crazy if they think that they literally own the software just from paying 30-40 quid for a game! They're being completely ignorant to what the real costs are in making a game. Though this is going slightly off topic here. So my original point - the industry has had a massive influence in the digital changeover. Digital is fine by me anyway. As I say - I just want the secondhand market to be kept alive. Just my feelings on that one

[kalniel]

It's the same point i've already made really If you can't sell on the full game then its not worth as much (if anything). That's purely down to the industry making an active choice to kill off part of the 2nd hand market.

Doesn't make sense. If you can't sell on the full game then there's no second hand market for that game at all, not lower-prices for the other games that you can sell on.

Allow people to sell on full games and you have a market again, prices would rise.

I don't think I follow. How does lack of selling a game affect the demand (and hence market) for games? If anything it would just decrease supply, and increase prices.

What I think is that PC gamers just aren't all that interested in second hand games, because they can easily and cheaply buy them digitally or they can afford the costs to buy new physically - they are after all still much much cheaper than console games.

[aidanjt]

It'll not be long before physical media is phased out by the industry. The government needs to get a move on with giving digital content licensees more definitive ownership rights.