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About LinkBacksSaracen we already know how you hate change
if win2k was still about - you would be still using it
Saracen we already know how you hate change
if win2k was still about - you would be still using it
Erm, I can see how you might think that, but actually, you're wrong. I don't hate change. What I do object to is change being forced on me, for no gain, and even more so when it's actually detrimental.Originally Posted by HalloweenJack
And, ummm, I do still have a Win2k system.
But answer me this. That system is an OLD machine. Limited memory, very limited processor by today's standard, but it does what I need it to do. Upgrading means buying new hardware, probably an entire new machine, and buying an OS upgrade, and it'll still do what I need it to do, which is what it's doing right now, without spending a penny. So, why fork out to upgrade? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I've said the same thing in the past about some XP machines. I'll upgrade IF and only if I get a benefit from doing so. But most of my 13 machines are XP, currently (if I counted right) 8 of them. And again, they're doing what I need as they are. So, would you pay out for eight Win 7 or Win 8 licences, AND hardware upgrades to run them, if the machines were doing everything you needed without?
HOWEVER .... given that I migrated my main machine from Win 7 to Ubuntu, and Office to Libre, it hardly stacks up that I'm change-averse.
Also, when Office switched to the ribbon bar thingy, I tried it, and while it took some time to acclimatise, I found I preferred it. It's a different mindset, but I found that the options I needed were there when I needed them, much more of the time. So I stuck with it, rather than reverting it with ClassicMenus, or similar.
I'm quite content with change PROVIDED it's for the better, provided it helps me, not hinders me.
And that is my gripe with Win8. MUI might work well for touch devices, but it does not work well for kb/mouse combo's. Yes, you can get used to it, but why should I, only to have a less convenient UI than before the change.
I have my applications grouped in submenu's. So, for instance, programming, utilities, business, accounting, games, comms, graphics, etc. And grouped in the order of most frequent use. Within 'business', for instance, there are a number of custom-written databases. Menu parameters start the database application with the right parameters to open the right files for specific uses. So, getting one of those databases opened consists of click, click, click, with each click in pretty much the same screen area.
And, it's been working that way for me for, as I said, about 15 or 20 years. So .... why change to something far less convenient, just because MS want to leverage mobile device sales?
This is what MS, if rumours are correct, have finally, finally noticed - that all they had to do was give US the choice. Do that, and objections go away.
Underneath, Win 8 has a lot going for it. I've never said different. The problem is issues like the above. And it's not just the start menu, though that's a large part of it. I have no need of or interest in MUI-style apps. I certainly don't want or need live-tile type status updates. I emphatically do not want to be told I have email when the OS wants to tell me. Why? Because when I'm working, and remember, it's "creative" work, I'm in the zone. And interruptions knock me out of the zone, disrupt my train of thought, and it's often very hard to get it back. Hell, I even turn the phone ringer off.
So, I don't like the horrible "tiles", don't want live tiles, emphatically don't like the horrible, clunky, desktop to MUI context switching, and I seriously DO want the damn start menu back. Which, with Ubuntu, I can get.
It's not that I don't like change, Jack. It's that I don't like change for the worse, or change that I'm expected to pay money for that actually leaves me worse off than before. To me, it's like my car manufacturer telling me that the car can't be serviced any more so I have to buy a new one which, by the way, has less power, no sound system, no ABS and uncomfortable seats. Please sign here, sir, and hand over the wedge and your old car.
aidanjt (28-09-2014)
Good lord, the demagogues are still trotting this flogged to death chessnut out?
I too dislike MUI for mouse and keyboard, so I don't use it. Want to see what my start screen looks like and how I use it? I went to all the effort of installing screen cap software, recording and uploading this for you. Sequence is neither shortened or edited. http://youtu.be/aqwGT2h4wnI
Edit: Microsoft haven't been forcing metro apps on users either, nor do I get any email notifications. I'm not sure why you're getting that, but there's a handy fix for it. http://youtu.be/ZK2TVgoiSP4 Just press Win + I to bring up the settings bar - you don't even have to use the charms (speaking of which, I have mine disabled)
Last edited by CustardInc; 28-09-2014 at 01:01 PM.
Windows 7 Professional is a much better experience than Home IMHO, well worth the extra license fee. But I am sad that they are trying to push 7 into irrelevance so quickly. I have friends who are older buying Windows 8 computers new and asking me to help them relearn their computers. I take one look at the tiles interface and I'm like "What is this, can we turn this off?" And find out it is actually pretty hard to disable. Plus Microsoft tries to get people to tie their email addy to the OS before they even allow new users to log in which is really vile.
Email notification is one of the "advantages" often quoted for the Metto UI, or more specifically, live tiles. My point is, I don't want those ugly tiles, live or not, and "live" is no use to me.
MS are trying to force Metro apps, or more specifically, the environment, on users. They tried to prevent people being able to ignore MUI. They wanted us all using MUI because it would get their mobile UI on so many desktops, and leverage their way into "the future" of mobile phone and tablet devices, dominated by Android and iOS. It's only been very slowly, and most reluctantly, that MS have conceded ground, and even then, only due to the presence of Start8, and the free altetnatives.
MS have had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the realisation that a very significant propirtion of their users are reslly very, VERY angry with them over attempts to force us to do things the way MS now want us to. And whoever the moron at MS was that thought loads of publicity about bringing back the Start button, without bringing back menu functionality, was a bright idea really deserves (or deserved) to be fired. That was the point at which I lost patience with MS and went Ubuntu. That was rubbing salt into the wound, and totally, uttetly counter-productive.
I know we can somewhat tune Win8 to get rid of MUI, but we can't (yet) completely disable MUi and leave JUST a desktop environment, and certainly not with the menus back. Not without resorting to third-party tools, anyway.
The part of your earlier post I really object to, though, was ....That is not only simply not true. It's also offensive and deeply patronising.At this point anyone refusing to adopt it either hasn't really tried it / is too suborn to acknowledge that it's changed since initial release / can't cope with minor UI changes / doesn't like performance boosts.
How good is Windows 7 Ultimate compared to Professional?
Unfortunately, even witch Win9 Microsoft insists in pushes METRO interface, now a mix between Win 8.x and Win 7 os.
Note if Microsoft had listened consumers, it wouldn't put this... hybrid she calls Win9. This means Ms will try again introduce METRO in the future.
I'll wait for Win10 (maybe) because this "big-badly-done-patch", I don't want; MS "forgot" to work into a REALLY NEW operating system.
I don't know much about Windows Ultimate. I used the side by side comparison charts with Pro and Ultimate when I first decided to upgrade to Windows 7 in 2011. The only thing I could see that Ultimate did which was surplus to Professional 64-bit was the Global Language Packs. Since I primarily speak english, I didn't think it was worth the extra money (then $60)
But that has always been their way. It is probably 20 years ago I saw someone write "Microsoft: Making you think the way we do (tm)"
Was it Windows 95 where Microsoft dropped the File Manager program, and people kept dragging a copy over to new machines for years after?
I have yet to see any productivity benefits from the ribbon interface in Office.
Interesting that you have gone Ubuntu. I have installed Steam on my Linux partition, there is enough there to keep me going for a while. I only really booted into Windows to play games, and recently I have been playing Civ V and SpaceChem both of which I now have under Linux.
Well, there's a lot of truth in that, and we know that both inertia and aversion to any change are factors developers have to be wary of. But I think there's a qualitative and quantitative difference between the normal user inertia and the backlash against UI changes in Win 8.
For me, and judging by publicly made remarks, for a lot of people, the "backlash" is because the UI is felt to be entirely inappropriate for non-touch devices which, of course, is what the vast majirity of people have on desktop machines.
For me, it goes a bit further than that, which is that the change appears to be entirely about MS's interests, and their strategic direction.
And ultimately, my shift to Linux is because what I consider that strategic direction to be is utterly unacceptable to me, so it's not so much me leaving MS as MS leaving me. I have quite a few machines here, mostly quite old, and mostly for very specific purposes, like driving old hardware. For almost all of those, what MS do with Win8, or Win 10 or future versions, is irrelevant because I'm not upgrading the old OS to Win 7 let alone W8 or later.
I'm not much of a gamer these days, with what little I do do being non-DRM stuff from GOG. So, on my 'main' machine, I can change the boot drive, and currently, I have drives with Win7, Win8 and Ubuntu. So when I do want games, if it runs under Linux then great, but if not, I can switch to a Win 7 drive and boot into that.
My main divergence with MS is over that strategic direction they're taking, and I see the Win8 UI as a symptom of that, no doubt with more to come in the future. And that is why I switched to Ubuntu, with my disgust over the UI changes really just being the icing on the cake, not the main issue.
I remember a senior MS exec saying, a while back, that MS no longer see themselves as a software company but as a cloud services company. However they cut that, I'm not interested. If it's about cloud services, like storage of user files, I'm not interested. If they see it as online, web-based office apps instead of locally installed software, not interested. If they see it as "subscription" services with or without integrated cloud services, not interested. And so on. If it's increasingly "thin clients", not interested.
My personal computers are exactly that - personal. And what I want is an OS that I install and that can, and much of the time will, run on the PC without internet connection. And in relation to Office, exactly the same applies. What I want, be it OS, Office apps or other software IS software, not cloud services. And my strong suspicion is that whatever concessions MS make over UI changes in Win8 will be a minor tactical withdrawal not a change of heart, let alone strategic direction.
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