Microsoft explains Windows 10 upgrade for non-genuine users

[jag272]

The program "Belarc advisor" shows installed keys...will that work?

Haven't used any of the keyfinder software on 7/8, I used Magic Jellybean previously on XP though, but ye checking the key might work. If it's fake it'll usually be either an OEM key without KB971033 disabled or an MSDN key which is identifiable by the first 5 digits iirc.

[Saracen]

Hey guys. Please excuse me for not reading the article properly, its links, or the forum posts. It's rude, I know But I just wanted to ask - does this mean there is no free upgrade to W10 for those who don't have a registered copy of Windows already? Thanks

Depends what you mean by not having a registered copy.

Do you have :-

1) No copy of Windows (7, 8+, don't remember if Vista is covered) at all
2) Legit version of XP or earlier
3) You have a legit copy of qualifying Windows, but it's not registered
4) You have qualifying version (7, etc) but it's not legit

As I understand it, answers are

1) No, they're not just giving it away to anyone who wants it.

2) No, free versions only apply to qualifying versions of Windows, not XP and earlier

3) Yes, you get a free version but will have to register your qualifying version, or at least, have it installed and activated, as the upgrade is via Windows Update

4) Yes, you get a "free" upgrade, but if you upgrade a non-genuine version, it'll still be non-genuine after upgrade. The "free" upgrade does NOT convert an illegitimate copy into a legitimate one.


All "as I understand it", and as of the latest info I've seen, but full details, T&Cs etc aren't yet published.

[directhex]

The program "Belarc advisor" shows installed keys...will that work?

Windows 8 certified hardware no longer has the full 25-character CD key attached to the chassis - instead, it embeds the CD key in an ACPI table in the firmware, and the installer can load it at install time.

A second ACPI table may exist, containing WGA activation keys, so the installer can pre-activate your system when you install.

The first table can be extracted using anything that can look at ACPI tables - note that things like Magic Jellybean or Belarc Advisor look at the key of the installed OS, not the key in the firmware, and they might not match up if using pirate install media.

From a Linux booted system (e.g. a live USB stick), "sudo cat /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM | tail -c 29" will tell you the CD key in the firmware.

[GuidoLS]

Depends what you mean by not having a registered copy.

Do you have :-

1) No copy of Windows (7, 8+, don't remember if Vista is covered) at all
2) Legit version of XP or earlier
3) You have a legit copy of qualifying Windows, but it's not registered
4) You have qualifying version (7, etc) but it's not legit

As I understand it, answers are

1) No, they're not just giving it away to anyone who wants it.

2) No, free versions only apply to qualifying versions of Windows, not XP and earlier

3) Yes, you get a free version but will have to register your qualifying version, or at least, have it installed and activated, as the upgrade is via Windows Update

4) Yes, you get a "free" upgrade, but if you upgrade a non-genuine version, it'll still be non-genuine after upgrade. The "free" upgrade does NOT convert an illegitimate copy into a legitimate one.


All "as I understand it", and as of the latest info I've seen, but full details, T&Cs etc aren't yet published.

Only change/addendum would be to option #2 - Legit version of Vista or earlier. Otherwise, everything I've seen posted has indicated that 'as of now' this is the 100% accurate answer, along with your caveat.

[ZaO]

Depends what you mean by not having a registered copy.

Do you have :-

1) No copy of Windows (7, 8+, don't remember if Vista is covered) at all
2) Legit version of XP or earlier
3) You have a legit copy of qualifying Windows, but it's not registered
4) You have qualifying version (7, etc) but it's not legit

As I understand it, answers are

1) No, they're not just giving it away to anyone who wants it.

2) No, free versions only apply to qualifying versions of Windows, not XP and earlier

3) Yes, you get a free version but will have to register your qualifying version, or at least, have it installed and activated, as the upgrade is via Windows Update

4) Yes, you get a "free" upgrade, but if you upgrade a non-genuine version, it'll still be non-genuine after upgrade. The "free" upgrade does NOT convert an illegitimate copy into a legitimate one.


All "as I understand it", and as of the latest info I've seen, but full details, T&Cs etc aren't yet published.

Ah ok. Well I did have a legit copy of W7 which is installed and registered, but a family member now has that computer. So what I did was use my W7 disc to install W7 on my new build, but it's not registered as the key belongs to the other computer (I'm just getting the nag messages instead). I didn't wanna buy W7 again with W10 so close. So I've just been waiting to see what's gonna happen with it and how much it costs. So it sounds like, without this one activated, I'm not gonna get a free, registered upgrade.

Looks like I'll probably be buying W10 then! Shame Linux support isn't where I was hoping it'd be by this point. My most important program is still only supported on Windows and Mac

Thanks for the great answer though

[Saracen]

Only change/addendum would be to option #2 - Legit version of Vista or earlier. Otherwise, everything I've seen posted has indicated that 'as of now' this is the 100% accurate answer, along with your caveat.

So Vista doesn't qualify?

Seems a bit weird, but ... okay. I jumped Vista entirely, so never pay much attention to it.

[Saracen]

Ah ok. Well I did have a legit copy of W7 which is installed and registered, but a family member now has that computer. So what I did was use my W7 disc to install W7 on my new build, but it's not registered as the key belongs to the other computer (I'm just getting the nag messages instead). I didn't wanna buy W7 again with W10 so close. So I've just been waiting to see what's gonna happen with it and how much it costs. So it sounds like, without this one activated, I'm not gonna get a free, registered upgrade.

Looks like I'll probably be buying W10 then! Shame Linux support isn't where I was hoping it'd be by this point. My most important program is still only supported on Windows and Mac

Thanks for the great answer though

Well, I guess that depends on what version of W7 it was.

If it's OEM, then it's effectively restricted to that original computer, and can't be transferred, registered or, legitimately, activated.

If you bought a RETAIL licence and installed it on that computer, you can transfer the licence to the new computer, but the original then becomes unlicensed, and to comply with the licence (IIRC) you need to remove it from the original.,

[GuidoLS]

So Vista doesn't qualify?

Seems a bit weird, but ... okay. I jumped Vista entirely, so never pay much attention to it.

Other than the fact that it goes totally eol in less than 2 years, and by extension, the hardware becomes too old to support (on an oem level, at any rate. I know more than a few people that still use Vista quite happily, on newer hardware), I can't think of any good reason other than they had to cut it off somewhere, and 2 generations is just as reasonable as 3.

[GuidoLS]

Just a PSA, as the story hasn't been posted on Hexus yet, but if you are doing the Insider Preview, and you are using an AMD GPU, it's advised that you do NOT update to build 10122 - there are known crash issues with Spartan/Edge that they hope to have fixed in the next couple of days, but there was enough demand for everything else that MS released the entire update.

MS did not hide this - they made it very clear this was the case hours before the release went to update - there is no ISO for this update. Not sure why Hexus missed this one, as the update was pushed to Windows Update at 10am EDT (GMT -4) - well before the end of most office hours.

[jag272]

Just a PSA, as the story hasn't been posted on Hexus yet, but if you are doing the Insider Preview, and you are using an AMD GPU, it's advised that you do NOT update to build 10122 - there are known crash issues with Spartan/Edge that they hope to have fixed in the next couple of days, but there was enough demand for everything else that MS released the entire update.

MS did not hide this - they made it very clear this was the case hours before the release went to update - there is no ISO for this update. Not sure why Hexus missed this one, as the update was pushed to Windows Update at 10am EDT (GMT -4) - well before the end of most office hours.

Ahhh nice, I'll have to take a look. I finally got round to installing the preview in VM the other day and couldnt find anything in 10074, apparently they shifted the UI around significantly from the original preview, hopefully 10122 is a little more friendly.

[ZaO]

Well, I guess that depends on what version of W7 it was.

If it's OEM, then it's effectively restricted to that original computer, and can't be transferred, registered or, legitimately, activated.

If you bought a RETAIL licence and installed it on that computer, you can transfer the licence to the new computer, but the original then becomes unlicensed, and to comply with the licence (IIRC) you need to remove it from the original.,

It's a download version I bought via the cheap student deal thing when I was at college. So I think that's just the same as a normal retail version.. I think it's just W7 Pro Retail. But yeh, I'll let it stay on the other computer instead of nicking that licence back for my self

As for OEM versions. I usually buy them, and I haven't really had much trouble moving them around. I mean, when you consider that upgrading your computer is somehow considered as installing on a different computer. The idea that you can't upgrade your computer for your purchased copy of the OS to remain legit is just crazy, OEM or not. I did phone up MS support one time and they did this remote assistance stuff which I wasn't keen on! But after, the guy told me there is an automated system, which turned out to be way easier! So if my key ever stopped activating because I got a new mobo or something like that, I'd just ring up the automated system, input my original key, and it would give me some other code to type in and let me activate I did that with my Vista OEM version, and my W7 retail version.

[Saracen]

One of the major reasons OEM licences are cheaper than retail is that you cab't legally transfer them to another computer, outside of very limited circumstances. Whether it physically works, or MS activare it, isn't the point - it's a breach of the licence.

[shaithis]

Its only a EULA though. Do they even mean much in UK courts? Are Microsoft really going to take you to court for getting one of their operators to re-activate your Windows OEM license? Given the choice, would Microsoft prefer you re-activate your OEM license on a new motherboard or just use one of the other ways to activate without giving MS a penny? (I can tell you now, that they should have re-activated one of mine a few years ago after a mobo died - Had they, I might not have a KMS emulator online now and I might still be subscribing to technet)

I do find the posturing over licenses to be a bit OTT most of the time, yes it's a breach but to put it in perspective, it's considerably less of an offence than speeding, something most people do regularly....and IMO, the whole non-transferable to another machine license should not be legal in the first place.

[Saracen]

Its only a EULA though. Do they even mean much in UK courts? Are Microsoft really going to take you to court for getting one of their operators to re-activate your Windows OEM license? Given the choice, would Microsoft prefer you re-activate your OEM license on a new motherboard or just use one of the other ways to activate without giving MS a penny? (I can tell you now, that they should have re-activated one of mine a few years ago after a mobo died - Had they, I might not have a KMS emulator online now and I might still be subscribing to technet)

I do find the posturing over licenses to be a bit OTT most of the time, yes it's a breach but to put it in perspective, it's considerably less of an offence than speeding, something most people do regularly....and IMO, the whole non-transferable to another machine license should not be legal in the first place.

I don't disagree.

However, they've been explicit that a "non-genuine" licence upgraded gives you a non-genuine new version, and THAT is subject to being identified as such, and dealt with accordingly.

Are MS taking you to court over it? I'd be astonished. But I've had enough people over the years come to me to fix their new probkem with Windows, which is that MS have detected, whatever and however, a "non-genuine" status and the desktop declaration /nag-dialogs that go along with that.

Whether that matters to a user varies. Most home users? Perhaps not. Small businesses where a customer might see it? Well, I'd look very askance if I was consulting a company with a view to engaging them and saw that on their PC desktops. And I know some quite large companies that will kill a supplier agreement stone dead if they saw it.

[kalniel]

Its only a EULA though. Do they even mean much in UK courts?

As long as they don't stomp on any existing rights/laws, yes, just the same as any other contract does.

I do find the posturing over licenses to be a bit OTT most of the time, yes it's a breach but to put it in perspective, it's considerably less of an offence than speeding, something most people do regularly....and IMO, the whole non-transferable to another machine license should not be legal in the first place.

Putting a different price on licensing per single machine and per multiple non-concurrent machines is perfectly legal and IMHO fairly reasonable. Another example would be the difference in price between a 3 year insurance policy and a 5 year one - it wouldn't be reasonable for the person who bought only the 3 year one to expect insurance for 5 years.

Saying that because you break one law, contracts in general should no longer be binding is a bit odd though. That's all this is - the legal right to have an agreed contract.

As saracen says, they're not likely to go after an individual unless that individual represents something - for example if a larger organisation has to deal with that individual then they will stay clear, for fear that they *would* be targeted by MS.

[ZaO]

I won't get involved in any possible arguments about whether it's right or wrong, because it's something I've been through a few times already on forums over the years and I don't really have the energy for it anymore. But, I think that telling me I'm not allowed to upgrade my computer because I happened to have paid for a bit of software is ridiculous, and I can't respect that rule.

I do agree that they seem lenient towards individual users, as you guys say. It would be a bad move for them to do that differently. I'm not keen on buying MS software as it is. I don't like the company. But I don't like to pirate anything, so I buy it because I need to use Windows, for now at least. If they decided to deactivate my licence because I installed some new hardware, I'm not sure I'd bother buying Windows from them again, and I imagine a whole bunch of others would do the same..