Microsoft will give away Windows 10 to all Windows Insider testers

[GuidoLS]

Just a follow up -

There's been a retraction of sorts over on Ars - atm, Mr. Bright is saying the change in information is due to a change on the MS website. There's a very real possibility that the change on the MS website was due to what may be politely called erroneous reporting on the part of Mr. Bright. As this is the weekend, we probably won't see any clarification, officially, until tomorrow at the earliest.

So, as of right now, we're right back to the we have no idea position we were in before this broke. I've said before I didn't care overly much for his 'reporting'. I've said that here. Now you have an example of why. I've also said that using Twitter as a primary means of communications was pathetic. Now you have an example of why that's obvious, too.

[GuidoLS]

I can't seem to downgrade back to win8.1 because win10 seems to think my original user has been deleted (which isn't true) and just declines downgrading lol. "useful" feature it is!

You installed a beta over a production install, and I'm guessing sans the benefit of a backup. This was a bad idea... I'm sure others will inform you as to why this was a bad idea.

[c12038]

What about the re-activation if hardware fails such as SSD and CPU, and does it stay free After 12 months as I have heard its going to be subscription based after 12 months..

Come on Microsoft couch up the proper details of this wonderful offer

[Saracen]

What about the re-activation if hardware fails such as SSD and CPU, and does it stay free After 12 months as I have heard its going to be subscription based after 12 months..

Come on Microsoft couch up the proper details of this wonderful offer

As far as I'm aware, the subscription thing is speculation, based on the fact that MS said it's "changing how we monetise Windows" without explaining what they meant by that. Subscription is one possibility, but if so, probably in the longer term.

As for 12 months, anything upgraded within 12 months is free for the life of that system/device. But unless they extend that offer, any device upgraded after the 12 months expires won't be eligible for a free upgrade.

You also should be able to upgrade components, like HD or SSD, without issue, but upgrading motherboard/CPU may be enough to signal the end of the "life of the device".

[Corky34]

The real question I want Microsoft to answer is what they consider the "lifetime of a device" to be, my suspicion is that it maybe handled in a similar fashion as Windows 8 was, in that when Windows 10.1 is released it will start the 2 year countdown for the end of life for Windows 10, most likely Windows 10.1 will also be a free upgrade.

But as is the way of the world Microsoft could change that any time they like, just like they reserve the right to change the terms of having a MSA, if you don't agree to those new terms you have to stop using the service or product and lose access to all the data associated with them.

As someone said to me "I liked smart phone X better than my existing one, but didn't buy it because I have to much invested in my current phone"

[yeeeeman]

Still Windows 7 is very, very good. So no need for upgrade.

[DanceswithUnix]

Educated speculation -

You were able to downgrade from 8/8.1 to 7. It was a popular feature. It's a safe bet that it will continue. Otherwise, there's no official word.

I thought with 8/8.1 you could only downgrade to 7 if you were running at least 8 Pro. With previous versions anything was downgrade allowed even Home editon. This was supposed to be why Pro sales were better on 8 than they were on 7, people who would have had 7 home opted for 8 pro to allow downgrade.

[Saracen]

The real question I want Microsoft to answer is what they consider the "lifetime of a device" to be, my suspicion is that it maybe handled in a similar fashion as Windows 8 was, in that when Windows 10.1 is released it will start the 2 year countdown for the end of life for Windows 10, most likely Windows 10.1 will also be a free upgrade.

But as is the way of the world Microsoft could change that any time they like, just like they reserve the right to change the terms of having a MSA, if you don't agree to those new terms you have to stop using the service or product and lose access to all the data associated with them.

As someone said to me "I liked smart phone X better than my existing one, but didn't buy it because I have to much invested in my current phone"

Well, quite. Exactly. Precisely.

As I pointed out in the last (I think) Win 10 speculation thread, the actual quote from MS wasn't "lifetime of the device" but "supported life of the device". Which exactly makes your point.

Whether they'll be such a thing as 10.1 or not is unclear. MS seem to be suggesting they'll move away from version numbers to a constantly and silently upgraded (in the background) base, intending that everyone should be on the same code base, which is just "Windows".

There is a downside to that, though. I know companies that (currently) don't allow ANY upgrades that have not been tested carefully before going into "live" environments, and feedback over losing control over that has not been positive. Others work from a stable, known base and only install critical and security updates, or patches specifically for software they use. And these aren't big corporates but small businesses for whom their PCs are mission-critical.

[GuidoLS]

I thought with 8/8.1 you could only downgrade to 7 if you were running at least 8 Pro. With previous versions anything was downgrade allowed even Home editon. This was supposed to be why Pro sales were better on 8 than they were on 7, people who would have had 7 home opted for 8 pro to allow downgrade.

Most of the downgrades I did for people were on OEM machines from places like WalMart and Best Buys, and were Home licenses, and went straight to the normal 7 Home license with no issue. Of the 3 Pro downgrades I did, 2 had some pain in the rear activation issues that turned out to be licenses that were stolen from the business in question (store displays that were sold off the shelf, with no protection of the license while it was on display). In all cases but one, it was a downgrade from 8.0 to 7, but I'm not sure that made any difference.

I cannot recall anyone downgrading from 7 to Vista, and I may be misremembering, but IIRC, you could only downgrade from Vista Business back to XP Pro, but that's been a while, and definitely doesn't apply now.

I'm not entirely sure how it will work this time. This wouldn't technically be a downgrade, but a revert. If people are doing an upgrade from 7/8.1 to 10, there should be a windows.old folder, as there has been for years. If people are doing a clean install, that folder won't exist, so it would require the original media - that's not new, either, and at this point, there's been no indication that the upgraded license has been locked to the new OS (but, as Saracen has pointed out, quite correctly, there's been no indication that it WON'T be locked to the new OS, either. We don't know yet)

I'm going to go on the theory that the licensing scheme will remain the same, and if you upgrade with a 7 or 8.1 license, and wish to re-install, you should be able to, as long as it's the same machine (if it's OEM) or on a unique machine (if it's retail). Doing a downgrade (or an upgrade, for that matter) on a production machine is a recipe for disaster, and one I'd have to be paid very well to do for someone.

[boothy02]

This is good news, to a point. It will encourage more people to use windows 10 meaning hopeful it will become more standard than windows 8.

[j0n4s82]

OEM licenses have ALWAYS been machine bound, period. Retail licenses have always been one at a time limited - period. I believe, without any official word to base things on, that the 'free to rtm' version is going to be the same license as the OEM license - machine bound, for life. I don't see any reason why MS would change their OEM licensing agreements after 20+ years, nor do I see where anyone who is doing a free upgrade on an OEM machine feels entitled to move that license to another machine.

So just to be clear, retail means I bought the CD separately from a PC? I bought my two Win 7 licenses via ebay; respectively, the stickers say Win 7 Home Prem OA and Win 7 Ult OA. They are DELL labeled disks. My quick research says OA means nothing but OEM. If I understand your comment correctly, I shouldn't be able to install and activate the DELL branded versions. They are hardware bound. But they are activated. And I know I can install them on any other ONE machine.

If MS licensing policy remains the same I should be able to (re-)install the Win 10 RTM version with a downloaded ISO on any other ONE machine whenever I happen to replace one or both of the two PCs. So OA/OEM versions don't seem to be hardbound to any PC, but bound to only ONE machine at a time.

And still, I am wondering what would be of more benefit now? Upgrading from an eligible Windows version or from the latest insider preview? What exactly do I gain from upgrading from an insider version? That's not clear to me at all.

[GuidoLS]

So just to be clear, retail means I bought the CD separately from a PC? I bought my two Win 7 licenses via ebay; respectively, the stickers say Win 7 Home Prem OA and Win 7 Ult OA. They are DELL labeled disks. My quick research says OA means nothing but OEM. If I understand your comment correctly, I shouldn't be able to install and activate the DELL branded versions. They are hardware bound. But they are activated. And I know I can install them on any other ONE machine.

Technically, your licenses aren't really legal, although it's doubtful MS will come looking for you over it. They may well go after the people that sold you an OEM key, but that's a different story. To be 100% clear, retail means you purchased your license either through a valid re-seller or MS directly, with the retailer being the primary method, and along with the license, you get 'genuine' media, complete with a happy little hologram and a shiny dvd.

If MS licensing policy remains the same I should be able to (re-)install the Win 10 RTM version with a downloaded ISO on any other ONE machine whenever I happen to replace one or both of the two PCs. So OA/OEM versions don't seem to be hardbound to any PC, but bound to only ONE machine at a time.

I wouldn't bet my house on that - just because you can install with an OEM license on a machine other than what it was initially authorized with, that doesn't mean you are within the licensing agreement.

And still, I am wondering what would be of more benefit now? Upgrading from an eligible Windows version or from the latest insider preview? What exactly do I gain from upgrading from an insider version? That's not clear to me at all.

If you're only going to be putting 10 on one machine, upgrade from the insider to the RTM, and then do a clean install. If at all possible, do NOT upgrade from one OS version to another. At a guess, there is an 85% or so success rate - but if you hit that 15% fail rate, it's going to be catastrophic. Along with that, there's no guarantee that everything on your Windows 7 install will be compatible with Win 10. I guarantee Media Center isn't.

The benefit from upgrading from the Insider to the RTM is simple - it's just a patch, and you're done. Especially if you're like me, and have moved/installed much of your regular usage over to a Win 10 machine, to the point where you're using it as a daily driver, which I am, other than browsing, because once I make the permanent changeover, I will no longer be using FireFox or Chrome. That won't happen until Spartan/Edge is capable of using Chrome extensions, and there's no clear date on that.

Edit - add

After all of that, don't take that as me saying to NOT use your OEM keys. You did pay for them, and if there was anything illegal, or even shady, it was on the part of the seller. The good thing about Ebay is you have a receipt, so on that 1 in 10billion chance MS gives you the stink-eye, you have backup stating that you were told you were doing the right thing, with proof. Just don't go activating them on multiple computers over and over again - that WILL get their attention.

[peterb]

Not sure if this is desperation on Microsoft's part, or the Drug dealer philosophy of 'give them the free samples, and get them hooked for life'.

Either way, I'm still quite happy with Win7.

[excalibur2]

So many posts on win 10 and have forgotten if someone knew why they were giving win 10 upgrade free.....there usually is a reason for everything unless MS comes under the "Chaos theory".

[GuidoLS]

So many posts on win 10 and have forgotten if someone knew why they were giving win 10 upgrade free.....there usually is a reason for everything unless MS comes under the "Chaos theory".

*conjures up his best Master Po -

Ah, grasshopper - the upgrade, despite all appearances, is free in theory only. You see, young one, we, as in the readership of Hexus - we shall probably reap the benefits of the 'free' upgrade, and that is it - we shall install our own programs and games to do our bidding. But keep in mind, we are but a small minority in the big picture, and we shall be installing this 'gift' on to the machines of our parents, and grandparents, and others who may not be as technically inclined as we, and while we will find no purpose for the App Store, they will bask in the uselessness of said product. Pretty pretty Mahjong. So beautiful solitaire. Superbly enticing Spark. All minor entertainments that are given for 'free', but fraught with inducements to give money, such as deluxe editions, or no more advertisements, or access to the creations of others, and so much more.

Then there are those that are less willing to part with what they have, young one. They feel what they have is perfectly fine, and they are correct. But eventually, they'll decide to see what all of the fuss was about, but unfortunately, they'll have waited longer than that free turning of the calendar, and must part with ~150 of whatever monetary unit they trade in to do so. And never discount the intellect of the MS creature - it has learned its lesson well, and will have adapted to those nefarious cretins that alter their installations so as to pretend they are legitimate. It will eventually come to pass, but not quickly. And in frustration, and in their desire to obtain the fabled DX12, they too will succumb to the required parting of the cash.

And, of course, there are the businesses and corporations, which have always been the bread and butter for said goods - they will have to pay for said goodness from day one, and in larger amounts of the local currency - after all, we peons really are a very small part of a very large picture.

*End Master Po

Or, they could just be trying to get everyone under one umbrella more quickly than they did with 7 and 8/8.1, and this is the easiest way to do it. It's probably significantly cheaper to maintain a single version of Windows than it is to maintain 4.5. I'm willing to bet it has very little to do with generosity, and much more to do with expediency. That it's, IMO, significantly faster in Beta form than 7 is in a mature form, on supposedly lesser hardware is just a plus for me. I may not look a gift horse in the mouth, but I won't turn down a free lunch, either. And we're supposed to be the tech savvy here - *I* know how to watch my house.

[Saracen]

Which free lunch, though, Guido?

Problem is, Cafe MS is offering a free lunch, for a limited period, but they won't tell you what's in the lunch, whereas Cafe Linux, right opposite cafe MS, has been offering a free lunch menu for years. And indeed, Cafe Linux offers not just a choice of one free item for your lunch, but a variety of tempting flavours and dishes, all free.