AMD expects Q2 2015 revenue to be lower than previously guided

[Corky34]

<Snipped a credible theory on the possible implications of using GameWorks>

Potential motives/reason behind the issues are another story, but they're clearly present.

There's no denying that they are, although I would question the perceived norm of blaming those problems on the people that developed the API.
Yes some GameWorks titles have problems but I would say that's more a fault with the games developer/publisher than the tools they used, the reasons for the over use of something like tessellation essentially boils down to time and money, a developer pushed for time is going to take a good enough approach even if that means leaving something like excessive tessellation in a game.

[Jimbo75]

And if you don't think that blowing billions of dollars on a GPU company at the expense of either building your own brand new, shiny fab center, or updating, at minimum, 2 already existing fab centers, is a waste of money, then I don't know what ledger books you think you're looking at, because all any of us are seeing, and all sites like Hexus are reporting is, their ledgers bleed red. Not occasionally show red. BLEED red. They aren't spending it on PR. I can honestly say I've never seen an AMD TV commercial for any product they've made. I see an Intel Inside commercial multiple times weekly. Usually being hosted by Jim Parsons (currently the biggest fake geek on TV - at least here in the states). Don't think I've ever seen an Nvidia commercial either, but I don't have cable, so maybe they do something on SpikeTV or G4TV or something.

You need to see an AMD commercial on TV before that justifies a buying decision? Then you admit to never having seen an Nvidia ad either?

Tell me how much Intel blew on bribing Dell back when AMD had the best chip. Tell me how much Intel blew on Larrabee. Tell me how much Intel blew on Itanium. Tell me how much Intel blew on McAfee. Tell me how much Intel blew on "Contra Revenue" and continues to blow on cracking mobile. While you're at it, why not tell me how much Nvidia is burning through with Tegra?

Do you have any idea of the vast $billions that are required for updating fabs? Since AMD spun off the fabs they've had access to 32nm, 28nm, a cancelled 20nm and now 14nm FF. Care to tell me where they were finding the $15 billion for that had they still owned it themselves? Not even Intel can afford it any longer, that's why they've given up and are now blowing even MORE money on Altera. Of course had they not blown over $50 billion previously on the rest of the crap I just mentioned they probably would have been able to afford it. Now they are blowing $17 billion on Altera instead? And you talk about AMD spending $5 billion on ATI as a bad deal?

But hey at least you have a catchy tune and TV ads to justify your purchase right!

What did Nvidia ever help develop? GDDR4, GDDR5, HBM, nope that was all AMD. What did Nvidia ever *do* for the industry? They aquire all their tech, they barely develop anything just leaving it all to AMD while they pick up the easy money from sheep. Well you know what - AMD won't be pushing the industry further any more because sheep bought the better marketed product instead.

[GuidoLS]

More stuff, bordering on gibberish this time.

You're getting deeper, and it's more obvious. And it's apparent you either can't read, or you just selectively read. I plainly said that I've never seen an Nvidia ad on TV. I never said I used TV to make a decision - I said that AMD's woes were NOT due to PR. But girare, girare, girare. Something you're excessively good at.

You argue and complain in the same manner as a 10 year old... somebody does something wrong, and you're all about somebody else doing a perceived wrong... what about Johnny - he kicked the dog.... what about Susie... she took the yellow cookie. Anything more on this is a complete waste of time. I stopped having circular, child-like arguments decades ago. I didn't accept them from my children, and I won't participate in one with a supposed adult.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You're getting deeper, and it's more obvious. And it's apparent you either can't read, or you just selectively read. I plainly said that I've never seen an Nvidia ad on TV. I never said I used TV to make a decision - I said that AMD's woes were NOT due to PR. But girare, girare, girare. Something you're excessively good at.

You argue and complain in the same manner as a 10 year old... somebody does something wrong, and you're all about somebody else doing a perceived wrong... what about Johnny - he kicked the dog.... what about Susie... she took the yellow cookie. Anything more on this is a complete waste of time. I stopped having circular, child-like arguments decades ago. I didn't accept them from my children, and I won't participate in one with a supposed adult.

He is not incorrect about the fabs though. Intel has for many years outspent both GF and TSMC and yet even 14NM was delayed. TSMC has massive economies of scale and yet have had multiple failed nodes like 32NM and 20NM. GF has oil money behind it and still has had years of problems.

Fabs and process node development costs $10s of billions of dollars - its not cheap. Plus AMD needs specialised process nodes for large high frequency chips running at high clockspeeds - most of the market is dominated by much smaller chips or large chips running at relatively low clockpeeds.

Even when they hit the homerun with the A64,they were severely limited by the capacity of the fabs they had. They were constrained by finances back even then,and with process node development being more and more expensive,even if they sunk that $5billion into process node development,it probably would have not bought them much respite IMHO.

Only,AMD,IBM and Intel were doing the nodes for high frequency large CPUs in any volume- IBM were the only company to have something comparable on 22NM,ie, their own SOI 22NM process. But despite them sinking billions into it,it was only relatively small scale and costly. IBM has much more money than AMD ever had,and literally decided to sell their fabs and tech to GF since it was unprofitable.

Samsung has loads of money too,but decided to get into bed with GF:

http://www.globalfoundries.com/newsr...tor-technology

The amount of independent fabs has massively contracted in the last 20 years - to just a handful. At this rate there will be at most two maybe three companies left doing cutting edge high volume process nodes.

AMD simply did not have the capitol or VOLUME to be able to develop. nodes on their own - the only way they could have done so was to become an independent fab and develop nodes which could be used by other companies,so there would be greater economies of scale. Yet,you need capitol and customers.

Look how long GF has taken after so much oil money sunk into it?? They are backed by ATIC which has metric crap tons of money.

TSMC,with their enormous amount of customers??

Edit!!

FFS,Samsung is spending $14 billion on ONE fab:

http://techreport.com/news/28244/rep...iconductor-fab

[Jimbo75]

You're getting deeper, and it's more obvious. And it's apparent you either can't read, or you just selectively read. I plainly said that I've never seen an Nvidia ad on TV. I never said I used TV to make a decision - I said that AMD's woes were NOT due to PR. But girare, girare, girare. Something you're excessively good at.

You argue and complain in the same manner as a 10 year old... somebody does something wrong, and you're all about somebody else doing a perceived wrong... what about Johnny - he kicked the dog.... what about Susie... she took the yellow cookie. Anything more on this is a complete waste of time. I stopped having circular, child-like arguments decades ago. I didn't accept them from my children, and I won't participate in one with a supposed adult.

What did Intel do when they didn't have the CPU? The bribed Dell, HP and even IBM to *not* use AMD CPUs. They spent almost $20 billion on BRIBES to stop AMD from becoming the tech giant they should have been. But no, it's all AMD's fault according to you and some others.

You go on about the ATI buyout like it was a bad decision lol? The vast majority of AMDs revenue today comes from graphics, not CPUs. The vast majority of CPUs sold have in-built GPUs (yes Intel's as well, did you notice?) but you'd have had AMD trying to get by with Bulldozer revenue while finding the billions to continue building ever-more expensive fabs? What planet are you on?

Maybe they should have spent the billions the spent on ATI on bribing OEM's not to use Nvidia instead? You lot sure seem to admire that kind of behaviour after all.

Not one of you answered my simple point that in "best graphics card" after another, AMD cards generally win 2/3rd's of the time. Why not? Because you know it blows your BS arguments about it being an informed choice out of the water. The reason AMD's graphics share is so low is because people lost their minds over crap like the 750 Ti - a card that has been getting destroyed by the R9 270 for well over a year yet continues to outsell it by 4 to 1.

Informed buyers? Don't make me laugh. You're not tech enthusiasts.

[Corky34]

IBM has much more money than AMD ever had,and literally decided to sell their fabs and tech to GF since it was unprofitable.

IIRC IBM didn't sell their fabs, they paid GF something like £1.5 billion to take them of their hands along with a load of patents and promising to invest billions over the next 5 years.

[GuidoLS]

Informed buyers? Don't make me laugh. You're not tech enthusiasts.

No - we're not rabid, foaming at the mouth fanbois who have no sense of reason - there's a difference. You might impress some with your vehemence. I find it kind of sad. I'm done - any further reply to me might as well be sent to /dev/nul.

[DanceswithUnix]

IIRC IBM didn't sell their fabs, they paid GF something like £1.5 billion to take them of their hands along with a load of patents and promising to invest billions over the next 5 years.

I think that is because IBM need the use of those fabs to build their Power servers, but just don't want the risk & hassle of running them.

[Jimbo75]

No - we're not rabid, foaming at the mouth fanbois who have no sense of reason - there's a difference. You might impress some with your vehemence. I find it kind of sad. I'm done - any further reply to me might as well be sent to /dev/nul.

It's not about impressing anyone, it's about setting the record straight. I'm tired of reading BS with no basis in reality, like you guys actually think you know better than a 50 year old multi-billion dollar corporation who has suffered wrongs against it for years yet still managed to survive - and not only that but BEAT the biggest with a fraction of the R&D budget?

You people are utterly clueless about the tech industry, clueless about AMD, clueless about how corrupt Intel and Nvidia both are and you'll only finally understand it once they are gone.

[Corky34]

It's not about impressing anyone, it's about setting the record straight. I'm tired of reading BS with no basis in reality, like you guys actually think you know better than a 50 year old multi-billion dollar corporation who has suffered wrongs against it for years yet still managed to survive - and not only that but BEAT the biggest with a fraction of the R&D budget?

You people are utterly clueless about the tech industry, clueless about AMD, clueless about how corrupt Intel and Nvidia both are and you'll only finally understand it once they are gone.

Hate to break it to you pal but that's business, you seem to be operating under the impression that businesses have some kind of morals, that their not just in it for the money even if that means stretching laws to breaking point, that what they do are for reasons beyond making lots of money for themselves and their shareholders.

And FYI I'm not "you people"

[GrimMachine]

Lol you're seriously trying to tell us that GameWorks makes their lives easier? Yes by making them more money easier due to Nvidia's money-cannon perhaps, however it certainly doesn't make their lives any easier when they have to deal with the fallout of using Nvidia's broken piece of crap software. Has there been a single GameWorks-afflicted game that performed reasonably out of the box?

The DEVELOPERS get paid millions for it. The same extra millions that Nvidia has because people overspend on Nvidia hardware due to being slaves to marketing.



Go through any publication that does "best graphics cards of the month" awards and tell me which company wins the majority of them.



You can start here - http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/gaming...iew-32899.html

As soon as you can logically reconcile those results (6-2 Win for the AMD cards should actually be 7-1 because Toms are giving a free win to Nvidia with the GT 730 even though it loses to the R7 250 at the same price) with the current market share of each company, you can come back and BS about "prudent, clever buyers". The vast majority of the buying public are clueless sheep and chances are you too are somebody who thinks he knows but actually doesn't. I find this to be the case with Nvidia buyers a lot tbh.

Yeah ok....all your comments point towards you being one of those fanboys I mentioned earlier.

Having been building PC's for the last 20 years and had plenty of AMD/Nvidia/ATI cards I can assure you 'I know' what suits me and it's not always what wins in the reviews.

For example, when I was purchasing my graphics cards for my latest build for my sim racing setup,my budget was around £550. At the time 2 x 970 were around that price, AMD's offering was 2 x R290x. Performance wise they are similar (R290x being slightly better at stock for most games except for Pcars which was one I wanted to play on the sim setup) however the power consumption of 2 x R290x's would mean I would be struggling to run them on my 850w power supply given I have an OC on my chip and would want to OC the cards and also the added heat of them would be harder to deal with in my case. So why would I opt for them? Couple that with the slow crossfire support for most games on AMD drivers and it's a no brainier, so tell me why I don't know better??

Just because a generic hardware test on a website says AMD cards are sometimes faster doesn't tell the whole story, hence my point regarding buying the more suitable hardware.

If you are only looking at standard reviews for GFX cards and not considering the games you play, your overall system requirements and the brand specific features on offer then you are the one who doesn't know better but think they do!

You seem to assume that anyone that buys an Nvidia card is an idiot??? What kind of mentality is that? One of a fanboy maybe?

[GrimMachine]

It's not about impressing anyone, it's about setting the record straight. I'm tired of reading BS with no basis in reality, like you guys actually think you know better than a 50 year old multi-billion dollar corporation who has suffered wrongs against it for years yet still managed to survive - and not only that but BEAT the biggest with a fraction of the R&D budget?

You people are utterly clueless about the tech industry, clueless about AMD, clueless about how corrupt Intel and Nvidia both are and you'll only finally understand it once they are gone.

Again assuming you are smarter than everyone else....please stop, you are embarrassing yourself

[canopus72]

Well if fools like demonichighwayman and staticlnx think they can do a better job, then I would like to see them try. What I find interesting is that AMD was slapped with a $33 million bill for cancelling 20nm node. Well intel and NVidia were also going to use the 20nm node, but due to technical issues, they also decided to forego 20nm. So are intel and NVidia also being slapped with a $33 million bill?. If not, then how did they manage to worm their way out of it?. PC demand has decreased due to increase in mobile/smart devices. Most folks want a smart device that can fit in their pocket. Only the real hardware enthusiasts still demand cutting edge hardware.

[Corky34]

AMD didn't get slapped with a bill, they spent money on design and tape-out(s) of chip(s) that will never go into production.

[Jimbo75]

Hate to break it to you pal but that's business, you seem to be operating under the impression that businesses have some kind of morals, that their not just in it for the money even if that means stretching laws to breaking point, that what they do are for reasons beyond making lots of money for themselves and their shareholders.

And FYI I'm not "you people"

You're not breaking it to anyone let alone me. What you really just don't get is what this will mean for YOU, if AMD goes down. It doesn't matter how much Nvidia squeezes you, you still don't get it. See those 10% increases you get from Intel every couple of years? Welcome to that, GPU style.

This has been happening with Intel for 5 years yet you still don't get that Nvidia will do the same thing? Those who think they are buying the best for their own sake - nah you really don't get it. Is it in YOUR interests to see an Nvidia monopoly? Are you so short-sighted that you can't see it?

Fools who support GameWorks and all the other crap that Nvidia pulls - no, you *really* don't get it. But you'll get what you deserve when AMD goes down because I can assure you there will be no need for GameWorks, no need for any kind of driver optimization, no need to move on to newer, more expensive nodes, no need to push the boundaries with technical development. As for the press, there will be no need for "sponsored" articles either - tech sites and forums will disappear through a lack of interest.

You'll have brought it all upon yourselves.

[Jimbo75]

Again assuming you are smarter than everyone else....please stop, you are embarrassing yourself

I'm smarter than YOU, try to differentiate.