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Thread: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

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    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Yeah I didn't originally include the bracketed part then I remembered Phi. But being a HPC part, Phi may be able to cope with higher costs than a consumer GPU. Or it could be for technical reasons i.e. HBM being better-suited to GPUs.

    Edit: Oh and with regard to volumes, it's possible Intel have a reserved supply considering HMC is Micron-Intel developed. So at the end of the day Nvidia had to compete with either Intel or AMD for capacity, both of whom co-developed the technologies.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    Could be AMDs final bad move if they try and leverage that to stifle competition. Do they have the funds to buy it all up and let it sit in a warehouse gathering dust?
    Theoretically it would be the choice between your next generation card working like a next generation card, or not.

    Fiji performance will be mid-range (we are dropping to 16nm from 28nm in one go), so HBM is a necessity even here.

    So Nvidia need HBM to even have a chance of competing. If AMD is the only company with mid-range to high-end GPUs that are actually usable, then that is what people will have to buy.

    However there is nothing in AMD's history that would suggest that they would try to do what is suggested here. And there is a chance that due to all the work they put into the technology, that they will earn from it selling, even if it to Nvidia.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Quote Originally Posted by yeeeeman View Post
    Yeah, bandwidth is nothing without a nice GPU. We saw that with the Fiji. No gain whatsoever. Maybe next time.
    Well yes, it did help. The increased bandwidth meant that the 4GB VRAM could be more efficiently used, and is enough for 4K gaming, when in some cases 4GB of GDDR5 isn't enough.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Talking things up is a skill of theirs.
    It must be something in the air as it seems most companies are skilled at talking things up, or are the benchmarks in the AMD press release for the Fury X yesterdays news.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Quote Originally Posted by CustardInc View Post
    Well yes, it did help. The increased bandwidth meant that the 4GB VRAM could be more efficiently used, and is enough for 4K gaming, when in some cases 4GB of GDDR5 isn't enough.
    That difference was down to VRAM compression, not bandwidth AFAIK.
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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    Could be AMDs final bad move if they try and leverage that to stifle competition. Do they have the funds to buy it all up and let it sit in a warehouse gathering dust?

    After some of the comments about nVidias business practices recently, not one of them come close to trying to prevent a competitor from making a new product like this seems to imply.

    I guess this could get interesting and may force nVidia to throw it's weight around a bit more.
    You are unbelievable. AMD buying up the memory technology they helped develop and according to you they are acting uncompetitively? Maybe Nvidia should spend more money on developing tech than on bribing the press and games devs?

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Only fair really. Dumb people bash AMD because they have less money and praise nvidia for pushing "innovations' like gameworks that more than not have a negative impact on the industry. AMD actually HAS done massive things for us gamers, so why should this anti-competitive nothing doing company nvidia continue to get the praise of its followers by using tech developed by AMD while at the same time being unfair to AMD?

    I would guess HBM2 production won't be as massive as gddr5. It would be enough to cover an entire range of GPUs (Top to bottom) and that seems to be AMDs intention. They will replace their entire line-up next year most likely. Serious trouble for nvidia if that comes to pass but their loyal deluded followers will still buy the less powerful more expensive hardware

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    Could be AMDs final bad move if they try and leverage that to stifle competition. Do they have the funds to buy it all up and let it sit in a warehouse gathering dust?

    After some of the comments about nVidias business practices recently, not one of them come close to trying to prevent a competitor from making a new product like this seems to imply.

    I guess this could get interesting and may force nVidia to throw it's weight around a bit more.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    Could be AMDs final bad move if they try and leverage that to stifle competition. Do they have the funds to buy it all up and let it sit in a warehouse gathering dust?

    After some of the comments about nVidias business practices recently, not one of them come close to trying to prevent a competitor from making a new product like this seems to imply.

    I guess this could get interesting and may force nVidia to throw it's weight around a bit more.
    Nvidia are more than entitled to partner with a memory company and develop their own advanced memory technology, at that point I'm sure they would get priority access to it too. Alternatively they could continue developing GDDR technology and find improvements in other areas.
    No matter which way you look at this, there is nothing that's preventing Nvidia create a product, AMD are simply ensuring any demand that comes from companies that haven't had much/any involvement in the development of said technology doesn't impede their ability to get their product to market. This is a completely fair business approach IMO.

    Given that AMD gets no access to Gameworks code at all which means the games using these 'plug-in APIs' cripple the game for AMD users untill they are disabled, I really don't understand how you came to your opinion that this is somehow worse.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Interesting times ahead.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    AMD had this in the contract when it spent millions with Hynix helping to develop HBM, it was part of the deal and Nvidia will just have to wait until AMD's production demands slow down. That's what 7 years of working on HBM with Hynix gets you. HBM1 was a gap filler, a chance to showcase and make a few million from years of work, HBM2 will give AMD and its partners the chance to make huge money before surplus stock can be purchased by Nvidia.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Considering AMD co-developed HBM with Hynix since 2008, I'm really surprised they didn't make it proprietary and their own intellectual property and not release it for anyone else to use it except under huge licensing payments.

    The fact that they are allowing other manufacturers, notably Nvidia, to use it is interesting and a nice stroke.

    But not many of the bashers are looking at that. They just want a nail in the coffin for AMD for some weird variety of reasons so they can be happy to pay £600 for an equivalent performance of GTX 950Ti 5 years down the line.

    I mean, call me a naive nelly but this is good stuff going down at the moment but the dregs and tosh have to be dredged up, come on and lets go back to playing with each other...in games...yeah..?

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    It must be something in the air as it seems most companies are skilled at talking things up, or are the benchmarks in the AMD press release for the Fury X yesterdays news.
    lol, I think Fury X shows if anything that AMD are a bit rubbish at talking things up, or rubbish at rumour control at least.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    Considering AMD co-developed HBM with Hynix since 2008, I'm really surprised they didn't make it proprietary and their own intellectual property and not release it for anyone else to use it except under huge licensing payments.
    Could that even be done? Hynix probably holds the copyright and can prevent other companies making HBM, but can/could that be extended to preventing it being used in non-AMD products, I know the American copyright/patent laws are pretty messed up but that seems a stretch even for them.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    But being a HPC part, Phi may be able to cope with higher costs than a consumer GPU.
    It is an expensive chip (I don't expect to see a Raspberry Phi any time soon lol), but I'm sure I read that they were basically giving them away to win prestigious builds in the last generation. I think it is more about denying Nvidia high end HPC sales than making any profit themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Could that even be done? Hynix probably holds the copyright and can prevent other companies making HBM, but can/could that be extended to preventing it being used in non-AMD products, I know the American copyright/patent laws are pretty messed up but that seems a stretch even for them.
    I expect it could be done, but standards drive volume and volume is what wins in pricing in the long run so restricting use would probably hand the eventual crown to HMC.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Could that even be done? Hynix probably holds the copyright and can prevent other companies making HBM, but can/could that be extended to preventing it being used in non-AMD products, I know the American copyright/patent laws are pretty messed up but that seems a stretch even for them.
    Just to re-iterate, SK Hynix and AMD developed this and both likely hold the rights to it. AMD didn't just walk up and ask to buy some pre-made from SK Hynix. Charlie at Semiaccurate had pictures of prototype silicon back in 2011: http://semiaccurate.com/2011/10/27/a...-gpu-pictured/

    And it would have been in development years before that of course. I'm not aware of any laws that force you to sell a product to your competitor, especially when there are alternatives available. I don't see anyone else using Intel's eDRAM.

    But I agree with DanceswithUnix, it's not in anyone's interest to artificially strangle supply or lock out competitors if you want it to gain widespread adoption and likely more licensing fees in the long term.

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    Re: AMD said to have secured priority access to SK Hynix's HBM2 chips

    Yea I know they both worked on the development, AMD as far back as 2008 (iirc), It was more a question on how such a joint venture pans out when it comes to patent restrictions if more than one company owns the IP, I'm guessing by the sounds of what yourself and DanceswithUnix said it could be something that's negotiated between the two and every tiny little detail is written up in a contact, although I'm still unsure if more than one company can own a patent.

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