Microsoft responds to Windows 10 privacy concerns

[Saracen]

.... None of us, and I do mean none of us, were ever coerced into installing anything on our computers, let alone Windows10.

....

I'm with you to a point on that post but ..... erm .... what about the Win10 upgrade nag app? How many people got that installed without knowing, let alone agreeing?

And it's one reason I'm NOT going to agree to mandatory upgrades. MS have demonstrated that they will do what they want with our machines, acting in their interests, not that of the owners of the machines.

As for it beingvusers fault for not reading what we're accepting, again I agree, but only to a point. How long is MS' T&Cs, product licence and Privacy Policy? 40 pages? 50? And in pretty dry, awkward to read language, and even if you do read it it's FAR from clear exactly what it means. What we need is legally enforceable clarity in precisely what "informed" means in 'informed consent".

As far as MS (and many, MANY other companies) are concerned, "informed consent" seems to amount to socially engineering a pseudo consent by bombarding people with a mountain of legalistic drivel knowing full well that a very large proportion won't read it. It's akin to selling people a washing machine with a 50,000 page ageeement including a provision on page 38,952 that they consent to being burgled and that the burglar then legally owns anything he takes.

Nah, the way the likes of MS operate is on the same mindset as the original snake oil salesmen conning people, maybe via naivity or even just human nature, into buying the proverbial pig in a poke.

Fool me once, MS, shame on you. But fool me twice, shame on me for falling for it again.


EDIT - For the record, I'm one of the sad, need-a-life individuals that actually did read that 50-pages-ish borefest, and at least TRIED to work out what it was signing me up for.

[devBunny]

I'm sure there will still be a lot of tinfoil hat wearers who will swear this is more smoke and mirrors so that Microsoft can keep an eye on their activities....

Meanwhile, tinfoil hatters around the world are face-palming at the gullibility of the sheeple as they are willing led to the slaughter. ;O)

[Output]

Me neither. That blog post looks more like a simple PR exercise than actually listening, though as it's MS, that's not exactly a shock.

Exactly what I thought upon reading it too.

Mind you, privacy isn't my only reason for rejecting Win10. It's sufficient reason, but there's others, like mandatory updates.

Unless MS change direction significantly, and I'm not holding my breath, W10 is a non-starter for me. I doubt that MS will do anything to change that, and giving it away "free" sure won't.

Same here. As far as things look to me at the moment, the plan is to continue with Win7 until it stops being supported, then switch to Linux.

Although the blocking various things as suggested is an option, the problem is that an update could easily render that workaround ineffective. A definitive option for things to be disabled and actually be disabled (i.e no Cortana communicating despite supposedly being off) is the option I'd be looking for Microsoft to implement before I would consider changing my stance.

[GuidoLS]

Valid points

The nag is indeed annoying. But it came along at a point where, if people didn't know about Win10 and it's free for everyone (with limitations - read the fine print) promotion, they were pretty much tech ignorant to begin with, or living under a rock. Even the amount of time between when you 'reserved' your free copy and when it became available was more than adequate for at least one (thousand) Google/Bing/DuckDuckGo searches, which would have returned millions of hits running the gamut of well informed to the truly tin foil. The same holds true for the T&C reading. Even if a person isn't as like minded as we are to read everything down to the pixel, the same results were out there - again, from the well reasoned to the X-Files/we're in the Matrix/Skynet is coming... and all of that was here on Hexus alone... imagine if people searched the 'net...

You and I are opposite sides of the same coin - both do our due diligence, and making what we feel are informed decisions. We came to slightly different conclusions, but at least we took the time to reach them in a reasonable manner. To me (note that disclaimer), there are far too many that have made a decision based on FUD and outright ignorance, or are parroting whichever party seems to be the cool kid on the block, in much the same way that the Red and Green fanbois go at it.

I use the product, fully knowing the 'dangers' of doing so. You don't use it, knowing the 'dangers' of doing so. I actually advocate your position in most cases. I'm mostly ignored. People don't care. They really don't. It just annoys me to see statements made out of willful ignorance. There's no obligation. If someone offers you a piece of lime pie, and you eat it, isn't it pretty ignorant to complain that it's sour? Or that there's a line of red in the middle of your rare steak that was given to you at the latest improve your life seminar? Or that a spring was poking you in the rear end for your entire 'free' trip, by bus, to the beach?

Bottom line - there's no such thing as a free ride. We both know that. Too many have either forgotten that fact, willfully ignore that fact, or (I highly doubt this one) was never taught that fact.

And once again, I stand by the statement that nobody was forced to upgrade. As of right now, unless one makes a living programming specifically for Windows 10 or DX12, which would be the cost of doing business, and one that the company should 'pay' for, there's no need to upgrade. There are no DX12 games. As of right now, there's more functionality in both Windows 7 and 8/8.1. Media Center. Native DVD playback. Etc...

And yes, I tried the ignore function for some of the (IMO) most extreme examples... the forum software isn't up to the task...

[Sumanji]

Pretty much every Android app I install has anonymous data collection (enabled by default), and of course in all of the Google apps and Android itself... heck even custom ROM makers like Cyanogen have it.

I'm not an iSheep, but I assume Apple does similar with iOS?

So why is everyone moaning at MS? They seem to be taking a more transparent stance than competitors, yet as usual, they take a disproportionately large amount of flak from the tech community...

[mapesdhs]

Recent science journal articles have shown that it's perfectly possible to trawl supposedly anonymous data to identify people via metadata (data analytics is a hot research field atm across a range of industries, but especially defense, national security, etc.) Simple fact is, the safest approach is to assume nothing you do on the modern net is anonymous.

[peterb]

Microsoft operating systems have been storing Internet Explorer browsing history since Windows 95. Of course that data is only of use if the computer is seized for analysis, or is accessed remotely. But if you are using Google as your search engine, that browsing history is known to Google. If you want to stay anonymous, pull the network cable out of your computer and take the battery out of your smartphone.

Then go down to the post office and invest in some stamps.

[Corky34]

Microsoft operating systems have been storing Internet Explorer browsing history since Windows 95. Of course that data is only of use if the computer is seized for analysis, or is accessed remotely.

Isn't it now a case with W10 though that it goes beyond just storing local browsing history, IIRC it sends your browser history to Microsoft by default, in order to offer predictive search and "offer a better experience" I'm guessing seizing peoples computers or accessing them remotely became to much of a hassle.

[pastymuncher]

Sorry but that blog does nothing to persuade me to install win 10. I just don't like the direction that MS has taken with this. My data is mine and none of anybody else's business. See how many breaches of supposedly "secure" databases there have been lately. Even when companies have our information they can't be trusted to protect it. As for targeted adverstising, they can stick that where the sun doesn't shine. I don't want any advertising full stop!! That's why I use AdBlock plus in my browser.

[peterb]

Isn't it now a case with W10 though that it goes beyond just storing local browsing history, IIRC it sends your browser history to Microsoft by default, in order to offer predictive search and "offer a better experience" I'm guessing seizing peoples computers or accessing them remotely became to much of a hassle.

Which is what Google have been doing since... well, it started up!

[Corky34]

Well that just can't be true, not after Google gave us the "Don't be evil" slogan.

I've never understood how Chrome became so popular and remains so, or why people don't take measure to prevent Google from tacking the sites they visit, is it they don't know or don't care.

[peterb]

Well that just can't be true, not after Google gave us the "Don't be evil" slogan.

I've never understood how Chrome became so popular and remains so, or why people don't take measure to prevent Google from tacking the sites they visit, is it they don't know or don't care.

Because Google is a very good search engine, and at the time Chrome was a good browser! And there still isn't much to touch it now. Firefox has rather lost its way, i.e. is still n(to my mind) clunky so unless you use a Mac and Safari (which is OK) most people default to Chrome. (And if you use an Android phone, that is the default anyway)

[Output]

Well that just can't be true, not after Google gave us the "Don't be evil" slogan.

I've never understood how Chrome became so popular and remains so, or why people don't take measure to prevent Google from tacking the sites they visit, is it they don't know or don't care.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of users simply have the mindset of "Google suggested to use Chrome, so I am."

[shaithis]

Meanwhile, tinfoil hatters around the world are face-palming at the gullibility of the sheeple as they are willing led to the slaughter. ;O)

Wrong eco system. Sheep are Apples customers!

[peterb]

Wrong eco system. Sheep are Apples customers!

Or any fanboy-ism - but a term usually applied by the immature, much like the terms micro$oft or crapple. People have a choice - get over it!

[Corky34]

People have a choice - get over it!

Yea we defiantly need to do something about that.