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Thread: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    I am very much look to next gen AMD gpu's. However, whilst there will be a Polaris arch, I don't think Polaris has anything to do with Arctic Islands. For a start, the arch name is completely different as Polaris is the name of a star whereas Arctic Islands is an umbrella name of a group of islands in the Arctic (and Greenland is the top-dog gpu in Arctic Islands). I think Polaris is going to be the next gen after Arctic Islands and this new arch is going to be based on constellation and star names. I think Polaris will have 2.5 times more performance per watt than Arctic islands.

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    So we're going to have Arctic islands and Polaris both in the same year? One with a 2x increase in performance and another 2.5x increase towards the end of the year, best not buy an AMD card at the start of this year then if their just going to release another even faster card a few month later.

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    So we're going to have Arctic islands and Polaris both in the same year? One with a 2x increase in performance and another 2.5x increase towards the end of the year, best not buy an AMD card at the start of this year then if their just going to release another even faster card a few month later.
    I don't think AMD has ever officially acknowledged Arctic Islands as a family??

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Not that I recall. It's unlikely Polaris would be a separate and later-arriving family considering it has been demonstrated and we've heard nothing about Arctic Islands.

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    There are rumours that AMD might be sourcing GPU production from both TSMC and GloFo/Samsung (probably for different chips rather than the costly exercise of dual-sourcing). I suppose the high volume of mobile processors on bleeding-edge nodes should at least help to improve yields and costs by the time GPUs enter mass production. Historically, GPUs were one of the forerunners with contract foundries and likely had to eat large costs and poorer yields because of it.

    WRT performance - we haven't actually seen the performance of any sub-20nm GPUs? However as GPUs have been pressing against the power wall for a while now, bringing down silicon power is hugely useful in improving performance. 14/16nm also offers significant density advantages over the previous GPU node, 28nm, so that's more room for improvement as current GPUs (i.e. GM200/Fiji) are also up against the physical size limit. The new node also offers improved performance for a given power draw.
    I don't expect much performance improvement - with the cost and yield limitations of a new node we won't see anything as big as the current 600mm2 flagships, and so flagship transistor counts will probably remain quite similar. There's been plenty of time for foundries to get very good at making 28nm chips BIG. Assuming the die area scales with (28/16)^2 (I know this is an oversimplification, but I'm no electrical engineer), then the 120mm2 chip shown working would be similar in size to a 380X (370mm2 vs 360mm2) - and 60fps in battlefront at medium is a fair bit slower than you'd expect from that card. It's a massive improvement in perf/watt though, total system power is down to a third of what a 380X drew in hexus tests (the major difference in the rest of the system is that hexus uses a 4770k at 4.4GHz, whereas AMD used a presumably stock speed 4790k)

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    They might go down the route AMD did when they hit the 9000 scheme: next top end nvidia GPU with be the GTX X80Ti

    Or maybe they'll go back to having the G[T[X]] at the end, so we'll have the 1080GTX. Then they can start messing with GTS and GTO suffixes again to muddy the waters
    They didn't avoid using 10, they just switched to roman numerals

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    I would have expected more love for the massive reduction in power consumption. Whats happened to all the users that bang the more efficiency is better drum?

    This looks very interesting and I'm surprised the chips are built on 14NM and not the TSMC 16NM process.

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlucine View Post
    Assuming the die area scales with (28/16)^2 (I know this is an oversimplification, but I'm no electrical engineer), then the 120mm2 chip shown working would be similar in size to a 380X (370mm2 vs 360mm2)...
    Things used to scale pretty much like that (if you compared eg one Intel process to another, not TSMC to Intel as companies measure slightly differently).

    Recent nodes aren't scaling so well though, so the 3x improvement you calculated there is probably on the optimistic side, but we don't now how much because I it will be design dependant. Still, I would hope for 2x density, which would put it at the equivalent to 240mm^2 which is around gtx960 sized (228 mm^2). Perhaps that is one reason why they used a 950 in their comparison, who knows.

    Tonga always seemed a bit of a large chip for what you get, perhaps that is the alleged unused 128 bits of memory interface, perhaps there is more stuff on there that AMD aren't telling us about, so I don't think the 380X is a good chip to compare sizes against.

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by jigger View Post
    I would have expected more love for the massive reduction in power consumption. Whats happened to all the users that bang the more efficiency is better drum?
    Look how many of us have the 950 in our systems

    This looks very interesting and I'm surprised the chips are built on 14NM and not the TSMC 16NM process.
    They are?

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Well according to AMD they are. What makes you think different?

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by jigger View Post
    Well according to AMD they are. What makes you think different?
    This bit in the Anandtech article:

    Quote Originally Posted by anandtech
    The group has confirmed that they will be utilizing both traditional partner TSMC’s 16nm process and AMD fab spin-off (and Samsung licensee) GlobalFoundries’ 14nm process, making this the first time that AMD’s graphics group has used more than a single fab.
    http://anandtech.com/show/9886/amd-r...architecture/3

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Well this is from AMD.

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlucine View Post
    I don't expect much performance improvement...
    Transistors per cost and performance didn't scale well to 20nm planar which is why it saw limited adoption, however this apparently improves a lot with the FinFET nodes, so it's not quite so doom-and-gloom. Yields are always a potential issue with bleeding-edge nodes, and Nvidia always complains, however this time there will be some maturity on both nodes because of the mobile processors having been in volume production for ages now.

    Quote Originally Posted by jigger View Post
    I would have expected more love for the massive reduction in power consumption. Whats happened to all the users that bang the more efficiency is better drum?
    Maybe it's because it's not about efficiency of products from their favourite brand?

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    Transistors per cost and performance didn't scale well to 20nm planar which is why it saw limited adoption, however this apparently improves a lot with the FinFET nodes, so it's not quite so doom-and-gloom. Yields are always a potential issue with bleeding-edge nodes, and Nvidia always complains, however this time there will be some maturity on both nodes because of the mobile processors having been in volume production for ages now.


    Maybe it's because it's not about efficiency of products from their favourite brand?
    Thats probably true LOL. Still you would expect a few to comment as it sounds like a dream.

    Much higher performance for much lower power.
    New features in performance.
    Upped frequency.
    2x~ performance per watt than Nvidia.

    If the highend cards are 250watt then this will be a massive jump in performance. If they are closer to the top end of the ATX spec then Polaris would be a very fitting name for the performance on offer.
    We need Scary Jim to make another performance prediction.

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    It's currently hard to know how the efficiency improvements are split between microarchitecture and process.

    However also remember we're basically getting two node jumps in one as GPUs skipped over 20nm. It may not be quite that much of a jump in terms of density as AFAIK at least some of the metal layers are carried over from the 20nm node, however as for the transistors themselves we should see a big improvement in both power and performance. This seems to be clearly true on the mobile side at least.

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Couple of things there. Firstly, scaling down a GPU to 120mm^2 isn't that interesting because I already have one that fast and as long as it is quiet enough I am OK with the amount of heat it makes.

    Where it gets interesting is where they use the transistor density to add more transistors to the design. But then we don't know how much the silicon is going to cost per square mm, so we expect AMD will be able to make a range that is twice as fast as the current range, but we don't know how expensive they will be and that is kind of key. If I can get the performance of Fury for £150, I'm in.

    Finally, Nvidia are doing all the same stuff, so "power vs Nvidia" is pretty meaningless until we see what Pascal can do.

    Still, we are getting away from 28nm, something I have been waiting for for a long time. Bring it on, credit card on standby

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    Re: AMD Polaris GPU: detailed slides leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Look how many of us have the 950 in our systems
    I have a GTX960 - is that close enough??

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Finally, Nvidia are doing all the same stuff, so "power vs Nvidia" is pretty meaningless until we see what Pascal can do.
    I think the end results will be similar,but you need to consider one of the main reasons Nvidia had better efficiency and AMD somewhat gave it up is down to the move to software scheduling with Kepler onwards and the move to hardware scheduling with GCN onwards.

    If Nvidia start moving towards doing more in hardware again,they will be hitting the same issues that AMD did with GCN and they did with Fermi with regards to power consumption and there has been a lot of noise about the compute aspects of Pascal IIRC.

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