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Thread: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

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    Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    But BT must open up its network so competitors can connect fibre to homes/offices.
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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Hasn't BT/Openreach been told that it must give competitors access to its infrastructure before? I thought, maybe mistakenly, that its been a bone of contention for years.

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    Hasn't BT/Openreach been told that it must give competitors access to its infrastructure before? I thought, maybe mistakenly, that its been a bone of contention for years.
    They were forced to wholesale capacity (i.e. LLU)....I think this goes quite a bit further.

    The problem is, they still haven't made a real decision......and every example I can think of where a body has forced a split up to provide better prices for consumers, we end up paying more :S
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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    I see 10Mb broadband is still labelled as 'Superfast'. What a joke... I get 30Mb and I still think its too slow. Its ok for HD video and the odd download but when you download 15Gb patches regularly (thanks star citizen) its just not good enough.
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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    2020 minimum speed of 10mb/s... seriously that should be what we're on NOW, we're already behind the times when it comes to landline internet. Seriously we should be 100+mb/s by now and at the rate things are going most places will have faster mobile phone access (at stupidly high prices admittedly) than their pc on the landline.

    I also laugh at the 4g by 2017 figure... I can't even get a decent signal from them full stop and it's not like I'm in the middle of nowhere. How about ofcom making it so that EVERY part of this country is fully able to utilise the mobile phone service we pay for and make them do it rather than being "ok you can have a bit longer" because you've got a plan set out vodafone... which should have been completed already.

    OFCOM always seems to come across like the person who's done the 'review' has dropped an empty envelope on the floor and then the person being reviewed has handed it back full of money.

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    2020 minimum speed of 10mb/s... seriously that should be what we're on NOW, we're already behind the times when it comes to landline internet. Seriously we should be 100+mb/s by now and at the rate things are going most places will have faster mobile phone access (at stupidly high prices admittedly) than their pc on the landline.
    I do, actually. 4G is 2-3x faster than ADSL.

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Quote Originally Posted by jim View Post
    I do, actually. 4G is 2-3x faster than ADSL.
    3G is potentially faster than ADSL, particularly for uploads. If the download caps weren't so restrictive I'd be seriously considering mobile wifi instead of ADSL if my next house move goes through...

    FWIW, my best recent 4G speedtest result got me 30mbps down, 27mbps up. Pretty tasty....

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    2020 minimum speed of 10mb/s... seriously that should be what we're on NOW, we're already behind the times when it comes to landline internet. Seriously we should be 100+mb/s by now and at the rate things are going most places will have faster mobile phone access (at stupidly high prices admittedly) than their pc on the landline.
    Unless you're with Three for 4G and Virgin Mobile for broadband. Can just get a 3G signal so data speeds aren't brilliant, on the other hand VM just put in my 200Mb "Vivid" upgrade.

    Not surprised by the Ofcom "decision" - was anyone expecting them to recommend Openreach be hived off? I know I wasn't. Then again, I'm a "broadband socialist" who thinks that an infrastructure provider like Openreach perhaps should be a government-run body rather than in the hands of a private conglomerate, better still run like Royal Mail with a 'service obligation'.

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Quote Originally Posted by cheesemp View Post
    I see 10Mb broadband is still labelled as 'Superfast'. What a joke... I get 30Mb and I still think its too slow.
    10Mbps is INSANELY fast... I get 0.7Mbps.
    The exchange, less than a mile away across one A-road and a bunch of fields, has been fibre-enabled at least as early as 2012.
    BT and Openreach can't even agree whether they can or cannot supply me with anything faster, even within their own organisations. O-R has three databases to check, BT has four. None of them match up.

    Tell me more about your 'joke' of a Broadband service...?

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    I always find it odd how people are surprised when corporations generally tend to put profits first over investment, as if competition alone will overcome the shortcomings of general business and shareholder realities.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm no communist, but I am a firm socialist and I definitely believe that, in an ideal world, nationalising important utilities would be beneficial to society. I stress "in an ideal world", as alas in reality it can lead to inefficiency.

    By the same token, it can also lead to an incredibly efficient service like the NHS, which only really struggles due to lack of funding and the meddling of short-sighted politicians. Furthermore, I've yet to see any real benefit to consumers of privatisation either, so maybe both private and government-owned companies are liable to screwing up.

    Anyway, I'll be happy to see the other broadband providers forced to put their money where their mouth is. It's all well-and-good expecting OpenReach to do all the work for everyone, but it'll work much better if the other ISPs want to pay to bring FTTC and FTTP/FTTH to more houses. They can share in same of the blame too if the pace of change continues to be slow.

    Rant over. Your opinions may definitely vary to mine and I won't claim to be any expert on anything I've just said, so please feel free to disagree, though I can't promise to be swayed by other arguments either unless they're really good.

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Anselhelm... you do realise that openreach gets paid by the other isps to use said services....

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    you do realise that openreach gets paid by the other isps to use said services....
    And by all accounts part of the TV licence fee, at least i think that's who the £300 Million has gone to.

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Quote Originally Posted by anselhelm View Post
    Anyway, I'll be happy to see the other broadband providers forced to put their money where their mouth is. It's all well-and-good expecting OpenReach to do all the work for everyone, but it'll work much better if the other ISPs want to pay to bring FTTC and FTTP/FTTH to more houses. They can share in same of the blame too if the pace of change continues to be slow..
    Surely if Openreach was separated all the ISPs could pay into it & it would roll out the infrastructure without preference?

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky34 View Post
    And by all accounts part of the TV licence fee, at least i think that's who the £300 Million has gone to.
    yeah I forgot about the 'digital tv' fee that's being paid to BT to do their job of upgrading hardware to fit into 21st century living... you can't have them spending their own massive profits (from what is essentially a monopoly) now can we....

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Quote Originally Posted by LSG501 View Post
    ... you can't have them spending their own massive profits (from what is essentially a monopoly) now can we....
    I was browsing something earlier that discussed the variety of ISPs available, and listed BT, Plusnet (so, that'll be BT then), and EE (erm ... yup, still BT).

    I honestly cannot understand the reluctance to publicly fund core national infrastructure.

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    Re: Ofcom recommends that BT and Openreach are not split

    Quote Originally Posted by spacein_vader View Post
    Surely if Openreach was separated all the ISPs could pay into it & it would roll out the infrastructure without preference?
    I'm sure I remember reading/hearing somewhere that Openreach did actually approach Sky, TalkTalk, et al looking for them to help out financially with the fibre rollout. They got rebuffed because - and I'm maybe being unkind - the ISP's couldn't see the benefit of them helping out BT to improve its service, including the one that it was selling in competetion to them!
    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    I was browsing something earlier that discussed the variety of ISPs available, and listed BT, Plusnet (so, that'll be BT then), and EE (erm ... yup, still BT). I honestly cannot understand the reluctance to publicly fund core national infrastructure.
    Me neither. If Openreach became "UKNet" (or whatever) then BT Retail becomes merely another customer, and I'm sure that they'd appreciate losing all the operating costs. Other thing is that given the amount of critical data that flows over the net, shouldn't the backbone be regarded as a public facility - like the road network, powerlines, etc?

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