Samsung launches the Galaxy S9 and Galaxy S9+

[peterb]

I've read somewhere that it takes ALL photos in a burst of 3 and then interpolates the data to get better shots or something. Might only be in Pro mode though which gives you access to raw files and a few other things

That sounds like HDR - three shots and different exposures and then interpolate to give increased dynamic range. But it really needs to be user selectable because it can be a disadvantage when photographing fast moving objects.

[3dcandy]

It's like the HDR+ mode on Pixel2 yes. Software is more important than hardware these days anyway in the mobile world. The better the processing on the device for the sensor the better the resulting image. Although garbage in applies with only a couple of sensor makers including themselves Samsung haven't got much choice. This is why phones are all beginning to look the same etc.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The sensor package was released last year in a Korean only flip-phone. Can't remember the model number.

Samsung W2018,which is one of the few higher end phones I wanted,until I checked out the price. No way!

Why would I want to go to the problem of changing the OS? It's on a contract remember - that's against the contract rules. Plus I can't be arsed these days with flashing then ota's and all the hassle. I just want the phone to work.

Because in the end the contract is not "free" when you get a phone. You can get contracts with 30GB~40GB of full speed 4G data for under £20 a month now. Its also not really a big deal to flash the phone - LineageOS had security updates out quicker than many companies after the security scares last year. Relying on OTA updates is not really worth it anymore,and I say this through gritted teeth - Apple is better at it and Android is too fragmented. I also say Google keeps trying to unify updates,and after a few years it always keeps loosing steam.

Point taken though. The sensor has on board dram basically to facilitate all the nice things - I've read somewhere that it takes ALL photos in a burst of 3 and then interpolates the data to get better shots or something. Might only be in Pro mode though which gives you access to raw files and a few other things

Basically there is two modes of operation here - one is taking multiple quick shots,with varying exposures(under exposure and over exposure) to expand DR. The other is multi-shot noise reduction,ie,multi-shot average which is for noise reduction.

The camera on the plus also has a 2x lens for the secondary sensor. Of course it's not the most expensive sensor, we've had this debate before. I think you'd be surprised if you found out how cheap dslr sensors are for companies like Nikon to buy. It's the other things that make them expensive. BOM for the iphone X is rumoured to be sub $200 yet it's a $1k phone

They still cost more though,as remember,the camera module on a phone is the ENTIRE camera cost. Plus yes we know Apple does it,and Samsung,etc have increasingly copied the model. But remember when I said Chinese OEMs with lower margins would get more sales and people would wait longer between updates. It happened.

Plus these are not cheap devices,ie,well over £500. Its like paying £150000 for a Ferrari and having an engine out of a Fita Tipo!!

Of course it doesn't - no-one says it does! (but as the old saying goes, the best camera is the one you have with you when that perfect shot presents itself!) but the cameras on phones are good enough for selfies or the of=dd snap shot. If you are serious about photography and going out specifically to take photographs, you take a fully featured camera appropriate to the task in hand. (I've just started using an old Olympus C50 (14 years old) when I'm out walking simply because it is considerably lighter than my DSLR and produces images that are good enough for that task)

Not doubting that camera phones are fine for most usage,but I get fed up with all the hype though,which is everywhere.

Plus the hype machine then ends up burying the actual improvements,and making the small ones look big.

[Hoonigan]

So, when you see these Android nutcases going off on one about Apple hardware being inferior etc, it's based on a complete load of garbage?
As far as I can see, the iPhone takes a big old steamer all over anything else, and not by a small margin.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

That sounds like HDR - three shots and different exposures and then interpolate to give increased dynamic range. But it really needs to be user selectable because it can be a disadvantage when photographing fast moving objects.

Actually due to the apparently large increase in readout speed,it might be doable now. So either expanded DR and noise reduction through stacking of images will probably be less problematic.

[3dcandy]

Samsung W2018,which is one of the few higher end phones I wanted,until I checked out the price. No way!



Because in the end the contract is not "free" when you get a phone. You can get contracts with 30GB~40GB of full speed 4G data for under £20 a month now. Its also not really a big deal to flash the phone - LineageOS had security updates out quicker than many companies after the security scares last year. Relying on OTA updates is not really worth it anymore,and I say this through gritted teeth - Apple is better at it and Android is too fragmented. I also say Google keeps trying to unify updates,and after a few years it always keeps loosing steam.


Basically there is two modes of operation here - one is taking multiple quick shots,with varying exposures(under exposure and over exposure) to expand DR. The other is multi-shot noise reduction,ie,multi-shot average which is for noise reduction.



They still cost more though,as remember,the camera module on a phone is the ENTIRE camera cost. Plus yes we know Apple does it,and Samsung,etc have increasingly copied the model. But remember when I said Chinese OEMs with lower margins would get more sales and people would wait longer between updates. It happened.

Plus these are not cheap devices,ie,well over £500. Its like paying £150000 for a Ferrari and having an engine out of a Fita Tipo!!



Not doubting that camera phones are fine for most usage,but I get fed up with all the hype though,which is everywhere.

Plus the hype machine then ends up burying the actual improvements,and making the small ones look big.

YUP I know all of that. I haven't got the money to buy a phone outright at moment. Current phone has a cracked screen which is not worth fixing. Just easier to get an upgrade and go from there. If I wanted to mess a round with a phone I'd get a cheap phone and mess around but I haven't got the inclination to do it any more

[oranjedrol]

Still very happy with my Z5 compact, but I'v caught myself with the idea of a new phone

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

So, when you see these Android nutcases going off on one about Apple hardware being inferior etc, it's based on a complete load of garbage?
As far as I can see, the iPhone takes a big old steamer all over anything else, and not by a small margin.

Oh,goodness yes, Apple ARM SOCs are just amazing which when combined with their closed software model means they can optimise better. If anyone follows the AT articles on phones,Apple went with a much wider uarch,and apparently they have gotten close to Intel/AMD levels of large core IPC in certains scenarios.

Its no wonder if you look at the core size!



The main advantage of Android has always been cost and Apple only really inhabits the higher ends of the market.

Edit!!

IIRC,the Apple custom ARM cores had input from Jim Keller and were the first production 64 bit ones.

YUP I know all of that. I haven't got the money to buy a phone outright at moment. Current phone has a cracked screen which is not worth fixing. Just easier to get an upgrade and go from there. If I wanted to mess a round with a phone I'd get a cheap phone and mess around but I haven't got the inclination to do it any more

That's the other issue I have with more and more phones - looking at various sites,the phones are getting harder and harder to repair or replace batteries in,forcing you to upgrade. Its utterly terrible for the environment as the waste is usually shipped to third world countries!

[3dcandy]

To be fair I don't even replace the stock launcher any more. Phone just does whatever and that's it, can't remember even changing the ringtone for years

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

To be fair I don't even replace the stock launcher any more. Phone just does whatever and that's it, can't remember even changing the ringtone for years

I am actually fed up with the way Google has allowed Android to fragment and I am not spending over the odds just to get a service which should be on a £100 phone. People moan at MS,but honestly for the cost of a Windows license you get support for over 5 years,even if its a £250 system.

In the end my experience of using cheaper phones,and pushing them to the limit is that they are fine. Hence if I am going to get ropey updates I would rather buy something cheaper,and replace it more often,than spend literally £600 to £1000 on a phone even indirectly.

Its just utterly sad when a bunch of volunteers can push updates on multiple phones out quicker than OEMs,whose major business is selling phones.

[peterb]

Oh,goodness yes, Apple ARM SOCs are just amazing which when combined with their closed software model means they can optimise better.

I suspect that is a big plus for developers - they know exactly what the target environment is - no variations, whereas with Android, each mfr can tweak it so the environment isnt constant. I'm not a developer, so I don't know how much of a problem that is in reality - I suppose it depends on the level of tweaking!

To be fair I don't even replace the stock launcher any more. Phone just does whatever and that's it, can't remember even changing the ringtone for years

Yes, phones have become a commodity product, I would no more change the software in that than I would in my washing machine - unless it gave a significant improvement in performance - which is unlikely (unless it gives a more varied picture - the video of clothes going round and round gets a bit monotonous after a while ).

[3dcandy]

It's the way of the world. People don't keep things for very long, this time I've noticed that I can get 12 month contracts again and also contracts that although they are 2 years will let you "upgrade" easily after 1. Like I said I have enough other things to keep me going, have a dslr for photos and also a drone for aerial stuff. Plenty of tech to mess around with but my phone has gone back to being just on. Like you, a few years ago I'd be there messing around, but that boat has sailed. My peers are all the same, phone just gets used and abused.
I know phone tech is stagnant, so is laptop and pc tech for the most part. But my time of spending ages tweaking my phone are firmly on the wayside. So back to the S9 for my to get the best deal I need to upgrade (cheaper to upgrade currently than a new deal) but it has to be an upgrade, so I am limited to an S8, S8+, S9, S9+ or a Note 8. Note 8 is silly money unless it drops when S9 is in the wild and the price of the S9 is the same as the S8 was... soooo I'm limited. I could possibly get a cheap deal on something else, but the deals are currently not great on contracts with a phone and that's what I'm in the market for

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I suspect that is a big plus for developers - they know exactly what the target environment is - no variations, whereas with Android, each mfr can tweak it so the environment isnt constant. I'm not a developer, so I don't know how much of a problem that is in reality - I suppose it depends on the level of tweaking!

Apple a while back hired people like Jim Keller and bought up some companies,and started internally developing a wide ARM core. They were the first to actually implement a mass produced 64 bit ARM core in a consumer product AFAIK. Some of their SOCs have been pretty big - they are between 90MM2 to 150MM2 in size,which is comparable to desktop CPUs. A 4C/8T Skylake CPU is around 120MM2~125MM2 in size.

If anything in the next few years,it might be quite possible if Apple,etc produce higher clocked cores,these could actually start to be more viable for something like a MacBook Air type device,obviously the main issue being backward compatibility with software made for X86.

Yes, phones have become a commodity product, I would no more change the software in that than I would in my washing machine - unless it gave a significant improvement in performance - which is unlikely (unless it gives a more varied picture - the video of clothes going round and round gets a bit monotonous after a while ).

Part of the reason to move to things like LineageOS,etc is that is open source,and gets security updates much quicker. Its a bit like installing Ubuntu on your home PC,except everything will work fine.

The main issue is that even current Android phones can ship with out of date OSes,and be out of support even if they are sold in the shops,and we are talking some popular models too. Its getting worse and worse - Google keeps pushing out new versions of Android out,and most of the market can be upto two generations out of date.

Many companies also literally lie they will keep updating their devices and don't.

Its utterly poor when a contract is two years and many companies don't even support the software for two years. Then you have things like batteries and basic hardware warranties sometimes being as low as a year on a premium device.

Apple,etc have been taken to court over this:

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...rgues-in-court

This was before all the issues with Apple and Samsung slowing down phones. It seems both are basically using subpar batteries in very expensive devices and its harder and harder to repair devices,and its meaning lots of issues in third world countries due to electronic waste.

I honestly think phones need environmental taxes added on them,if they are not repairable enough,just to pay for the environmental cleanup costs.

Edit!!

This how poor the phone market is.

Imagine if everytime MS made a major update to Windows 10,you had to buy a new £500 to £1000 computer?? How many here would be cursing MS for it.

People loose all rationality when it comes to phones. There seems to be some dissonance going on here.

MS gets abused every which way,for doing stuff which if phone companies did would be considered normal or "good customer service".

[3dcandy]

Apple a while back hired people like Jim Keller and bought up some companies,and started internally developing a wide ARM core. They were the first to actually implement a mass produced 64 bit ARM core in a consumer product AFAIK. Some of their SOCs have been pretty big - they are between 90MM2 to 150MM2 in size,which is comparable to desktop CPUs. A 4C/8T Skylake CPU is around 120MM2~125MM2 in size.

If anything in the next few years,it might be quite possible if Apple,etc produce higher clocked cores,these could actually start to be more viable for something like a MacBook Air type device,obviously the main issue being backward compatibility with software made for X86.





Part of the reason to move to things like LineageOS,etc is that is open source,and gets security updates much quicker. Its a bit like installing Ubuntu on your home PC,except everything will work fine.

The main issue is that even current Android phones can ship with out of date OSes,and be out of support even if they are sold in the shops,and we are talking some popular models too. Its getting worse and worse - Google keeps pushing out new versions of Android out,and most of the market can be upto two generations out of date.

Many companies also literally lie they will keep updating their devices and don't.

Its utterly poor when a contract is two years and many companies don't even support the software for two years. Then you have things like batteries and basic hardware warranties sometimes being as low as a year on a premium device.

Apple,etc have been taken to court over this:

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...rgues-in-court

This was before all the issues with Apple and Samsung slowing down phones. It seems both are basically using subpar batteries in very expensive devices and its harder and harder to repair devices,and its meaning lots of issues in third world countries due to electronic waste.

The slowing down phones is more to do with people who charge their phones every day and just kill the battery. As said with non replaceable batteries this is always going to happen. Quick charge and wireless charging also do this. My S7 is way worse on battery now but is 23 months old.

I know a person who gets through 3 iphones a year. It is constantly on charge as it is her life. If the battery doesn't give up then it's a screen cracking, or a back cracking. Once we went and picked up a brand new iphone (6S I think) came home put SIM in put it on charge and watched as the screen cracked in front of our eyes. Took it back, was issued another. Went home and the screen was yellow and knackered.... went back and tested 3rd of the day in shop and it wouldn't charge! These things happen. As an aside the worst thing I'be bought was an ipad that takes hours to recharge, has rubbish battery life and through iOS updates is so slow to be a doormat. Only gets used to control some software via touchOSC now. Doesn't mean I think all Apple products are duff however, but not for me. Horses for courses. People charge what they think they can get away with and what people will pay. Some won't or can't pay. I have my budget and currently it fits in with a shiny new S9 on 23rd March when contract is paid

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The slowing down phones is more to do with people who charge their phones every day and just kill the battery. As said with non replaceable batteries this is always going to happen. Quick charge and wireless charging also do this. My S7 is way worse on battery now but is 23 months old.

I know a person who gets through 3 iphones a year. It is constantly on charge as it is her life. If the battery doesn't give up then it's a screen cracking, or a back cracking. Once we went and picked up a brand new iphone (6S I think) came home put SIM in put it on charge and watched as the screen cracked in front of our eyes. Took it back, was issued another. Went home and the screen was yellow and knackered.... went back and tested 3rd of the day in shop and it wouldn't charge! These things happen. As an aside the worst thing I'be bought was an ipad that takes hours to recharge, has rubbish battery life and through iOS updates is so slow to be a doormat. Only gets used to control some software via touchOSC now. Doesn't mean I think all Apple products are duff however, but not for me. Horses for courses. People charge what they think they can get away with and what people will pay. Some won't or can't pay. I have my budget and currently it fits in with a shiny new S9 on 23rd March when contract is paid

Most of the Android phones in existence are a security liability as companies ship out of date OS versions,take their bloody time to update them with security patches,network providers then make that delay even worse,etc. Google seems more worried about shiny crap than supporting their products properly and it means a massive security risk.

Yes,I know Apple phones are overhyped in certain aspects of build,but TBF,their support longterm is better. People still on older style iPhones still get security updates. This is coming from someone who generally prefers the UI of Android and the greater choice of what I can get.

People moan at MS,but imagine the outrage if for basic security updates,and/or for every major update to Windows 10 you need to buy a new £500 to £1000 computer?? People lose all commonsense when it comes to phones,and I have seen people defending the rubbish fragmentation then make pot shots at MS,which is just LOLWTFBBQ. After looking at how poorly Google supports Android,it made me think far more positively about MS(!).

Also when it comes to phones,I have seen people with some of the very thin higher end phones have far more issues with battery problems and overheating than the unsexy cheaper ones I use. I hammer my phones - I do things like geocaching/Ingress even in crap weather which means the CPU,wireless,etc is utterly hammered and it can kill batteries,and its not unknown for people to walk around with the phone continual on charge from an external battery pack.

It also utterly can destroy charging cables and the USB ports,if they are actually not engineered properly,ie,not secured well enough to the PCB. Plus run some of these kind of apps in summer,and then its the best test to see if the phone is actually a properly designed piece of hardware.

[spacein_vader]

Most of the Android phones in existence are a security liability as companies ship out of date OS versions,take their bloody time to update them with security patches,network providers then make that delay even worse,etc. Google seems more worried about shiny crap than supporting their products properly and it means a massive security risk.

Yes,I know Apple phones are overhyped in certain aspects of build,but TBF,their support longterm is better. People still on older style iPhones still get security updates. This is coming from someone who generally prefers the UI of Android and the greater choice of what I can get.

People moan at MS,but imagine the outrage if for basic security updates,and/or for every major update to Windows 10 you need to buy a new £500 to £1000 computer?? People lose all commonsense when it comes to phones,and I have seen people defending the rubbish fragmentation then make pot shots at MS,which is just LOLWTFBBQ. After looking at how poorly Google supports Android,it made me think far more positively about MS(!).

I agree with you on the general dislike of iOS but acknowledgement that it's got Android beat hands down for support and security updates.

Your MS analogy is slightly skewed though. It's not that Google don't support their OS, just that the manufacturers or carriers don't bother passing down the updates. The equivalent is MS releasing Windows update but Dell/HP/whoever or your ISP refusing to release them to you.