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Thread: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    Frankly, high-end 'consumer' pascal success is fundamentally a market distortion fuelled by commercial crypto sales that should be outright discarded as junk data as far as statistics is concerned.
    OK, I get that. I also get that as a person I see a very small sample so my experience isn't statistically significant, but I don't personally know anyone who bought a 1060 or lower. I'm pretty sure I know someone who bought a 1070, I definitely know people who bought 1080 and 1080 ti cards.

    I also personally believe that graphics cards are currently very over priced. Yet for some reason, no matter how outrageous a price Nvidia set people buy them.

    This set me wondering what Amazon sell, as they tend to make lists. Quite interesting reading: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-Seller...ters/430500031

    So their top gaming card is a £170 RX 580, next is a £260 Vega 56, followed by a £460 RTX 2070. So the first card is a reasonable-ish price, but not the bargain £130 RX 570 card which is down at #22. There are a bunch of 2060 cards near the top, but again not the cheapest ones.

    I get the 710 cards getting sold, I bought one at work to build a Ryzen based cheap server around a 2600 where I just wanted one grade above headless I have to wonder if the sales of 1030 cards demonstrate that people often don't really know what they are buying.

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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    Past experience would suggest this is a simple renaming strategy - with the familiar price-gouging by Nvidia.

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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    I think Nvidia has mis-managed this whole episode. I understand what they were trying to do - recoup costs on RTX R&D, preserve the price-performance ratio as long as possible, keep all the Moore's law profits to offset lost Ethereum mining revenue (rather than splitting those profits with their customers) - but as a customer willing to spend a few hundred quid on a graphics card, I've found the whole RTX purchasing experience unsettling. I ended up buying a second hand GTX 1080ti last year. Now that the new Super series is emerging, but Ampere is already well advanced and slated for a 2020 release, I suspect history will repeat itself in 12 months or less.

    I wonder if high-end consumers (2080, 2080 super, 2080ti, 2080ti super) will shift to buying mid-range parts because the value proposition is so weak at the top. You pay 100%-200% premium for a 15-30% performance increase, safe in the knowledge that in 12 months' time that same performance will cost you substantially less.

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    Senior Member spacein_vader's Avatar
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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    Quote Originally Posted by alex_stanhope View Post
    I wonder if high-end consumers (2080, 2080 super, 2080ti, 2080ti super) will shift to buying mid-range parts because the value proposition is so weak at the top. You pay 100%-200% premium for a 15-30% performance increase, safe in the knowledge that in 12 months' time that same performance will cost you substantially less.
    I doubt it, for the simple logic that the above has always been true.

    The challenge for Nvidia is that they've gone all in in ray tracing and other RTX features to provide more differentiation than the 10% FPS bump but the game Devs have been apathetic at best. Nearly a year on there are still only a handful of titles that support each feature and none that I'm aware of that support all of them.

    That strategy of using proprietary techniques may have worked if they were in the situation AMD is in regarding consoles. If Nividia was powering the current & next gen consoles then as console tends to be the primary target for multiplatform games they could say to Devs "hey, you're putting this feature in for the console anyway, minimal extra work to keep it in the PC version." As it is all that extra code is going into one of 3 versions of a game, in many cases the version that sells the least.

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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    I take your point. It has always been true to some extent, but not to this extent. I think consumers are only tolerant up to a point. I wonder if maybe Nvidia pushed their high-end consumers past breaking point with the RTX pricing. Suspect the sales numbers haven't been great.

    I worry about AMD, but Navi seems to give them a good shot at competing in the PC GPU market again. I think they blew a good opportunity when pricing the Radeon VII. Do you think AMD can claw it back? You're right about their position being stronger because they've got the console market.

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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    Quote Originally Posted by alex_stanhope View Post
    I think they blew a good opportunity when pricing the Radeon VII.
    There were legitimate economic constraints on Radeon VII pricing due to HBM2 and die costs. In fact I doubt they made any money worth speaking of from them at all. Of course they didn't have the same cost factors in setting the MSRP for Navi. That's what they really blew.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    What the hell hahahaha! Come buy a sligtly tweak version...For MORE money!!! We love gamers with really deep pockets... Intel and Nvidia suck...

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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    OK, I get that. I also get that as a person I see a very small sample so my experience isn't statistically significant, but I don't personally know anyone who bought a 1060 or lower. I'm pretty sure I know someone who bought a 1070, I definitely know people who bought 1080 and 1080 ti cards.

    I also personally believe that graphics cards are currently very over priced. Yet for some reason, no matter how outrageous a price Nvidia set people buy them.
    I know this is a forum, and thus, internet and not personally knowing people. But I bought a 1060. In the past I used to buy close to top end graphics cards(4870, 1950xt) then as top end expanded in price I dropped to high mid-end (7870) but then they seemed to increase in price tiers yet again so I found myself firmly into mainstream category and the 1060 just squeezed out on the price/availability at the time (I was set to go Polaris but cyrptomining hit).

    But as ever, I'll buy the best I can for the budget as and when I need to. I still find myself playing with max settings at my monitors 1080p/60hz native. Cyberpunk may make me cry, but that's a way off yets.

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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    Quote Originally Posted by alex_stanhope View Post
    I wonder if high-end consumers (2080, 2080 super, 2080ti, 2080ti super) will shift to buying mid-range parts because the value proposition is so weak at the top. You pay 100%-200% premium for a 15-30% performance increase, safe in the knowledge that in 12 months' time that same performance will cost you substantially less.
    That would take a very long time to happen. If you have a 1080ti, you won't want to buy a new card unless it is significantly faster. The 2060 is slower, if you are lucky the 3060 will be the same speed, maybe a 4060 will be faster, maybe not.

    I already have a Vega 56, so that is my baseline performance below which I am just not interested regardless of value. So even if Navi is amazing value, I sounds like I can only be interested in the top of the range or I'm going backwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    I know this is a forum, and thus, internet and not personally knowing people. But I bought a 1060. In the past I used to buy close to top end graphics cards(4870, 1950xt) then as top end expanded in price I dropped to high mid-end (7870) but then they seemed to increase in price tiers yet again so I found myself firmly into mainstream category and the 1060 just squeezed out on the price/availability at the time (I was set to go Polaris but cyrptomining hit).

    But as ever, I'll buy the best I can for the budget as and when I need to. I still find myself playing with max settings at my monitors 1080p/60hz native. Cyberpunk may make me cry, but that's a way off yets.
    I'm in much the same situation. Most of my cards have been mid to upper tier, but that was when upper tier was £200 once the launch price has settled to a decent street price and the likes of a 6600GT or GTX460 was £130. My 7900GT golden sample with double the usual video memory was £180 and I thought I was going a bit crazy

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    Senior Member Xlucine's Avatar
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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    That would take a very long time to happen. If you have a 1080ti, you won't want to buy a new card unless it is significantly faster. The 2060 is slower, if you are lucky the 3060 will be the same speed, maybe a 4060 will be faster, maybe not.

    I already have a Vega 56, so that is my baseline performance below which I am just not interested regardless of value. So even if Navi is amazing value, I sounds like I can only be interested in the top of the range or I'm going backwards.
    OTOH, you don't need to go back far for the 2060 to provide an improvement. Going by the performance deltas in 3dmark between the 2060, the 1070, and the 980ti (18% between 2060 and 1070 in time spy, 7% between 1070 and 980ti in firestrike extreme), the 2060 offers a 25% increase in speed over the 980ti. Not significant enough for me to upgrade (especially given 2060s cost more than my 980ti did, second hand), but that's a clear improvement in 4 years. This is probably an underestimate - my system is 65% behind the hexus test bench in timespy, but that's with a lesser processor which will influence things.

    Based on this, it wouldn't surprise me if the 3060 started approaching a full octave improvement over my 980ti (which is getting into upgrade territory, if sensibly priced)

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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    I'll buy the best I can for the budget as and when I need to. I still find myself playing with max settings at my monitors 1080p/60hz native. Cyberpunk may make me cry, but that's a way off yets.
    This is probably the most wise piece of advice in regards to any hardware upgrade, you work within your budget to get the best performance for your particular usage scenario. It may well be when Cyberpunk releases I'll be upgrading my 2080FE for a newer card to play the game at a performance level I am happy with.

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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    Can these people seriously not read the market? Consumers want super affordable, this is not going to be affordable. $150-300 has always been the vast majority, and neither company has provided any real performance improvement to that bracket in over 4 years.
    Amen.

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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    Interesting what will be price/ performance

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    Re: Nvidia GeForce RTX Super series rumoured to arrive in mid July

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    Can these people seriously not read the market? Consumers want super affordable, this is not going to be affordable. $150-300 has always been the vast majority, and neither company has provided any real performance improvement to that bracket in over 4 years.
    Vega 56 is now priced at around $300 less if you find a good deal and is a performance increase compared to a 1060.

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