QOTW: Do you use contactless payments?

[AGTDenton]

Why not?

If my phone were stolen or hacked, and the fact I don't want Google to have any of my bank info.
Many Google apps are untrustworthy and I sometimes install apps that I wouldn't trust with finance information.

I would never type any credit card details into my phone, I don't even trust many if any mobile phone manufacturer.
They would have to be already within the website or app if I was buying something, e.g. Amazon.
Everything you type on your Google Keyboard is logged whether you know it or not, it's how the prediction works.

I have one computer that can access my bank and important emails, that's it.

[siu99spj]

Pretty much all the time but an interesting thing to note. Whilst the card does work contactless-ly, even on values above £30, I'm still required to enter my PIN, regardless of value. The only thing which doesn't ask me for a PIN are toilets, which are very low cost (Under £1).

[I should add this is in Norway with a UK credit card so YMMV]

[HollyDOL]

CZ here. I use both debit and credit card contactless. CC has tight limits -> everyday usage. I wouldn't use phone, privacy wise I feel similar to spacein_vader, plus I have my security doubts about that. As opposed to PCs I am definitely not mobile expert and mostly I don't know comfortably enough how to set up various apps etc. to be sure it does exactly what I wanted.

[Hoonigan]

Not sure if it's my age or force of habit but I never go anywhere without my wallet, I do occasionally leave/forget to take my phone though.

I'm the opposite of this. I can forget my wallet but forgetting my phone would be similar to leaving the house having forgotten to put my head on.

[Macman]

Unsurprisingly, I completely disagree with most of that.

I don't see how carrying a contactless card is more convenient than carrying cash, unless talking about large quantities (which the cintactless won't do anyway). After all, I carry a wallet with both cash and cards .... and "cards" isn't just payment cards but membership cards, etc.

As for getting lost, stolen, etc, I've yet to lose a wallet, yet to have any stolen, yet to have my cash scammed, etc. But I have had (unsuccessful) attempts to scam my bank account by setting up fake cards. Which is one reason why I keep a modest balance in any account that has cards attached, and have written guarantees from banks that neither new cards nor internet access will be established on main accounts with pre-specified measures bejng met, including me, in person and with defined ID like passport) asking for it at a pre-designated branch.

Budgeting is easy with cash, too. I know how much regular payments will be, and I know how much cash I have for a week/month, etc. I can see instantly how I'm doing against budget by niw having that money left. I can also determine how much risk I take with cash by not carrying more than I need, and what I carry is the limit of the risk.

It's really a case of convenience versus risk. Both methods have conveniences, and both have risks. Use what suits you. For me, it's cash.

What is clear is that cash leaves a much smaller digital footprint.

Why do you have this big thing against digital? Smartphones, contactless etc

If the government wanted info on you they could get it - you seem to be going to a lot of effort to minimise your digital footprint.

[Hoonigan]

Budgeting is easy with cash, too. I know how much regular payments will be, and I know how much cash I have for a week/month, etc. I can see instantly how I'm doing against budget by niw having that money left. I can also determine how much risk I take with cash by not carrying more than I need, and what I carry is the limit of the risk.

I agree with this massively. Budgeting when you spend all of your money via contactless or debit card is really tricky. If your wallet is a little thicker than this time last month, you're doing alright, but without keeping an eye on your debit card, it's far too easy to spend it sometimes.

[Output]

As a number of others have said - yes, but not using my phone.

My phone may have a number of uses, but payment method is not one that I want it to be. Partly to reduce risk if it was to get lost or stolen, but also because I don't see the point in having additional payment methods for something that I can use existing payment methods for anyway.

[pp05]

Contactless - mostly for travel on public transport.

I see companies like Revolut who issue PAYG debit cards which you can switch off right after you have used it in the app. Barclays do something similar now as well. Saying all that I've haven't installed payment/banking apps yet on my current handset.

I use both cash, and at times debit depending on if I have cash on me or not. Cash is still king even if contactless usage has risen drastically. Simple reason being that today's bank can freeze your accounts on mere suspicion and not have to supply you with any reason for it or when you can get them activated. A scary thought.

[Saracen999]

Why do you have this big thing against digital? Smartphones, contactless etc

If the government wanted info on you they could get it - you seem to be going to a lot of effort to minimise your digital footprint.

That's a fairly small question with a pretty long answer. But I'll have a go at keeping it brief.

My objections to smartphones are different to my objrctions to contactless, and neither are about governments ... though the extent of information governments can get on you is severely curtailed by minimising digital footprints. Or actually governments, plural, because our own is not the only one doing it. Nonetheless, that's not really why or, at most, a very small part of why.

Smartphones?

Mainly, it's that I don't need one, and that any convenience from having one is minimal. Part of that is that if you have a phone, smart or otherwise, you only get benefit from it while you have it with you and I definitely do not want to be conractable 24/7. Moreover, the amount of people I want to be voice-contactable by at all is pretty small.

Add on top of that location tracking (and, if you turn it off a good part of the convenience goes away) and I don't want to be location-tracked. This is not so much about governments (though, them too, I guess) but about corporations. And by that, I mean ALL corporations. None of them, with zero exceptions, have a reason that is acceptable to me for tracking.

The same goes, with bells on, for monitoring who I communicate with, or what I say, never mind what I buy.

Then there's advertising. In an ideal world (to me) I'd get none. But some is unavaidable. But there are absolutely no circumstances whatever under which I want personal data about me used to send it, let alone target it.

Can I stop it? Not entirely, but the more data I can keep from being warehoused, the less I get. So, I do everything I can to keep every possible byte out of their hands.


Contactless?

Different set of issues, with some overlap.

First, I keep my use of any card to a minimum, contactless or not. I only use any card where either unavoidable, or where there is a specific benefit to doing so that justifies it in my eyes.

So I don't use cards at all, much, and never for trivial items like coffees, etc. That's what I use cash for.

Given that, what use do you think contactless is to me? IMHO, zero.

However .... once a contactless card is .... activated .... it can be used x-times, without any other fir of valudation by me, for £y. y=maximum payment, and x=uses before requiring PIN.

So, if a card is lost or stolen, and where x=20 (for example) and y=30, I have a poytential exposure to misuse of x * y =£600.

If that happens, at an absolute minimum, I'm going to find up to £600 missing from my bank account (which I drip-feed according to projected needs) and a heck of a fight with the bank convincing them it wasn't me. More likely, I just lose that money.

So, considering that I use, as I said earlier, any Dr or Cr card absolutely minimally, why would I want to expose myself to either the risk or the potential hassle and arguments?

In short, the contactless facility gives me nothing I need, want or am likely to use, but does open up a risk profile that I otherwise do not want.

I could, of course, utilise any one of several well-publicised anti-contactless methods, from frying the chip in a microwave to surgically cutting the contactless antenna, to disable tbe RF ability, but it's easier to just get the bank to supply the old, non-contactlsss version. And to close accounts if they won't

To be clear, I'm not advocating that fans of contactless shouldn't use them. To each his/her own. If tbey suit you, that's your call. I'm just saying they emphatically don't suit me and I won't use them until no better (for me) alternative exists.

And yes, that was the short version.

[watercooled]

If my phone were stolen or hacked, and the fact I don't want Google to have any of my bank info.
Many Google apps are untrustworthy and I sometimes install apps that I wouldn't trust with finance information.

That's what phone passwords are for, and I could be wrong but I don't think you can actually use Google Pay without one. Also you should be covered by the usual bank protections - Google Pay is something done in partnership with a bank, not just Google doing it off their own back. Likewise, paying with the app doesn't even reveal your 'proper' card details to the recipient, and nor are they stored on the phone, you have another virtual card created. https://www.kaspersky.co.uk/blog/secure-element/13687/

Hacking/malware are fairly minimal concerns unless you've rooted a phone (and then you probably couldn't install a payment app anyway for precisely that reason). Do you also totally avoid making payments on a Windows PC, which in many ways has far fewer protections against such threats.

They would have to be already within the website or app if I was buying something, e.g. Amazon.

That's better?

Everything you type on your Google Keyboard is logged whether you know it or not, it's how the prediction works.

Google Keyboard doesn't log fields it detects as private e.g. card details, passwords, Chrome incognito windows, etc.

[SUPERDUKE]

I always use the phone now as it's more convenient than the card as there is no £30 limit. I can't remember when I used cash last.

[cheesemp]

Got to be honest I hate using cash now (I've never liked it even back in the 90s when card use was a lot rarer). Rarely have it in my wallet and get annoyed at places that don't take contactless. As for budgeting I like having the every transaction recorded and traceable on Moneydashboard and you just can't do that with cash. For me its just more convenient.

[AGTDenton]

That's what phone passwords are for, and I could be wrong but I don't think you can actually use Google Pay without one. Also you should be covered by the usual bank protections - Google Pay is something done in partnership with a bank, not just Google doing it off their own back. Likewise, paying with the app doesn't even reveal your 'proper' card details to the recipient, and nor are they stored on the phone, you have another virtual card created. https://www.kaspersky.co.uk/blog/secure-element/13687/
Hacking/malware are fairly minimal concerns unless you've rooted a phone (and then you probably couldn't install a payment app anyway for precisely that reason). Do you also totally avoid making payments on a Windows PC, which in many ways has far fewer protections against such threats.

It's more Google I don't trust, I don't want to give them an easy ride (also back in the day of anonymity pre Facebook I never signed up with my real information). As far as Google is concerned I'm named after a German chocolate bar, putting in my bank details would require removal of that anonymity.
At least with Windows I can largely control the OS, ports and whatever else without the need for a device to be rooted. I'm also the one in control of my security which I very much prefer.

That's better?

The only app I have with this is Amazon and when I go to look at card details it doesnt show you the full card number. I keep these apps to a minimum. The only other App I have like that is eBay but the useful thing with that is you dont need to be logged in to use it, it still functions whilst logged out. So I can look things up still, might not be able to bid or buy but that's not always the point.

Google Keyboard doesn't log fields it detects as private e.g. card details, passwords, Chrome incognito windows, etc.

Thats what they tell you, but we constantly hear of Alexa and Google logging things you wouldn't expect like phone calls and texts that arent even part of an App. Same with TV mics what are they logging without our knowledge...
Sorry don't trust them one iota. Never have, never will.

[Top_gun]

Contactless payment is hugely convenient, especially if you live in London. I can track my spending. Cards take up little space in my pocket and thus easier to look after. Cards provide an extra layer of purchase protections such as section 75 of the consumer act and chargeback.

Cash takes up too much space in my pocket and increasing the rate of wear to my pockets. I don't have too worry about receiving counterfeit change.

As for privacy, well my shopping is so fragmented that bank staff or retailers rarely have the right mindset to work out the mind of a connoisseur! It's a bit like the fake Hipster trying to provide a music streaming service to a connoisseur but fails after relying on urban dictionary and Wikipedia. Only a connoisseur can truly understand another connoisseur. Those who are not tend to wallow in underhanded comments in my experience.

It is only a matter of time before retailers can track cash users once they install facial recognition systems. You may well be thinking they haven't got my name and address. This is true until the time you need to do a refund and they insist they have your name and address in order to process the transaction.

[Ttaskmaster]

Ha... you humans are funny, aren't you?

I pay for everything in Asgardian coins. Each one is worth a bazillion dollars.

[Mr_Jon]

If my phone were stolen or hacked, and the fact I don't want Google to have any of my bank info.
Many Google apps are untrustworthy and I sometimes install apps that I wouldn't trust with finance information.

I would never type any credit card details into my phone, I don't even trust many if any mobile phone manufacturer.
They would have to be already within the website or app if I was buying something, e.g. Amazon.
Everything you type on your Google Keyboard is logged whether you know it or not, it's how the prediction works.

I have one computer that can access my bank and important emails, that's it.

Same here, nothing remotely important goes near my phone. I have a junk email account on there which I forward emails too if needed when I'm out and about. It's encrypted using the device software (the quality of which I really don't know about), but it's too easy to lose a phone or have it nicked. My computer, on the other hand, is encrypted with programs I trust and is in my house - not trying to jump out of my pocket every time I stand up across glorious Lancashire.