QOTW: Do you own an electric car?

[keithwalton]

The amount of people in here who have said something along the lines of "no I don't and no I never will" genuinely scares me.

I don't drive an EV just now, as our property lay out makes it impossible with the driveway being around 30 yards away, but when we move and can wire up a charger in the garage, I will definitely be considering something like the eGolf.

The belief that electric cars have a low climate impact (good for the environment etc etc) scares me much more.

VW recently published details on their 'cradle to grave' study between an e-golf and a golf tdi.

The results are quite alarming.

The crossover point in climate impact between the two vehicles is at 120,000km

The impact of building an e-golf is so bad that you can build a golf tdi and drive it 60,000km before the e-golf has driven a single km and the diesel still has less of a climate impact.

The study does show that over 200,000km an e-golf is better for the environment but only if it makes it that far on it's first battery.

If you have to change the battery you can kiss goodbye to ever catching back up to the tdi 200,000km, as the battery accounts for over 40% of the e-golf's manufacturing impact and would take another 120,000km to catch back up

[Saracen999]

Yes, I do.

Also a couple of light aircraft, an electric speedboat and several helicopters. Oh, and quads.

But assuming you meant full size versions, no, not currently (excuse pun).

There are several issues, not least cost (too high, generally), charging point (too few), range between charges (too few, by quite a way, unless lookjng at very expendive versions) and .... let's just say '"concerns" about battery longevity and performance over time, and replacement cost.

There is not, that I'm aware of, a model on the market that suits my needs, circumstances, objectives and tastes. When there is, I'll condider it seriously, at my next vehicle chwnge.

I like the idea. But currently, not the reality of the options,

[Iota]

When the battery tech catches up, then I'll consider it. Until then you can wrench my petrol powered car out of my cold dead hands.

[QuorTek]

nope they are toxic to the enviroment in the making, however when we get hydrogen fuel cells spread out am keen on it as could develop clean energy... for me it is not so much about being a petrol head or not, you can get faster and better and much easier to configure electric cars however would like something more hybrid alike or a motor that generates electricity for use in the car running on Bio Ethanol or Hydrogen, hence still skipping the traditional motor for a drive, lesser mechanical parts moving = more relieability.

[hellig]

yes a renault zoe

[.havoc]

I do, a Hyundai Ioniq. I don't know the facts or a backup article but i've been referenced a taxi company that's been running all electric for 10 years with battery health still in the high 90's. It's only when they drop to 80-70% quality do they need to be changed. As I say, word of mouth so can't qualify, but battery degredation isn't as bad as the first estimates were thought to be...apparently. Earlier cars suffered from crap range but modern ev's hit 200+ under new testing rules for more accurate readings.

That aside the main reasons I own one are

A. the cost of the car - per month is no more than what I was paying before - a Golf GTD, granted not in the same quality bracket but that wasnt the driving force behind the decision. The not insignificant savings of at least £1100 a year on fuel, tax, insurance etc. was. It's just beneficial that the car is 0 emission - manufacturing aside.

B. The mileage I do on a weekly basis doesn't warrant me owning a thirsty diesel or a petrol. A single charge a week is enough to see me through (140mile range depending on conditions). So going electric made sense for my journey types.

There's apparently a lot of stigma around owning an electric car for not a huge amount of reason. The process of building one isn't as great as it should be currently, but since i've owned one i've not had any desire to go back, and these issues will improve in time, so why there isn't more excitement for them I don't understand. I actually rather enjoy driving past the petrol station looking at the fuel prices and when it's busy, the long queues!

[.havoc]

VW recently published details on their 'cradle to grave' study between an e-golf and a golf tdi.

Being slightly pedantic but since when did VW become a reliable source of information when it comes to anything to do with "official figures"

That aside, the early versions of the e-golf managed shocking mileage due to it being retrofitted into a chassis not suited for a BEV. Only the latter models have anything respectable. So with that in mind, does this survey state the model, mileage and driving conditions? What manufacturing process and from what year? What about comparisons to other, purpose made EVs such as the Zoe, Tesla's, Kona, Ioqnics etc? All designed to actually be electric. There is too little of a comparative analysis across the segment, with too little information (unless you can supply a source?) rather than 2 specific (and one poor choice) of cars, then I would it's particularly old age thinking.

I say this because after a cursory googling, all I can find is articles refuting your claim from a study by VW: https://www.greencarcongress.com/201...425-vwlca.html

Maybe this article too... https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...e-says-VW.html

But then you are referencing the need to replace a battery in your argument, however my Hyundai has a 125,000 mile (or 200,000km), 8 year 70% health warranty so there would have to be a level of confidence through research and testing that it has the ability to achieve and go beyond that level of usage. In fact the battery warranty is for longer than the cars warranty! So yes I would expect it to make it to that mileage on it's first battery.

Again I think this boils down to old thinking about the state of EV technology. Granted - it's not incredible, but it's a damn sight better than most people realise

[AC81]

There's apparently a lot of stigma around owning an electric car for not a huge amount of reason. The process of building one isn't as great as it should be currently, but since i've owned one i've not had any desire to go back, and these issues will improve in time, so why there isn't more excitement for them I don't understand. I actually rather enjoy driving past the petrol station looking at the fuel prices and when it's busy, the long queues!

Much of the problem, has to do with cost. And your not going to convince many by suggesting that your £30K car is very good....
Most people are buying 2nd hand cars or new small cars, hatchbacks or saloons on the cheaper end of the scale on finance. So, the vast majority of the population are driving around in cars significantly cheaper than the one you own. Spending £30k on a car just isn't an option for most people.

Most of the EV cars that are cheaper than the Ionic, you are required to hire the batteries. So, the Renault Zoe for example that someone owns above. For my milage, battery hire cost is £79 - £89 a month (model depenant). My current petrol spending. About £80 - £90 a month. (from a 1.6 Toyota Auris)

The Zoe is also about the same size as a Clio.
The Clio is 9K cheaper to buy. That will have better MPG than my car so it will be cheaper to run than the Zoe.

What reason is there to pick the Zoe over the Clio? Your basically excepting that you are paying more for a car that's no bigger, has a shorter range, more expencive to run, won't last as long.

Electric cars just don't make that much sence if your on a tight budget.

Even if i was in the position to spend £30K on a car. Ionic EV at the moment wouldn't even be in my thoughts, when there are far cheaper options, and not just regular cars. Corolla Hybrid is £9K cheaper. The Ionic Hybrid £8K cheaper. Yaris Hybrid is only £13K
They are more environmentally friendly than regular petrol only cars, 2nd hand pricing is more stable, they're much cheaper to buy than electric and not too much more than the petrol only equivenalnt, have a much longer range, will last longer.
Also, as someone that occasionally has to do long drives for work. The Ioniq in the cold on motorways range on good batteries could be as little as 85 miles.
https://ev-database.uk/car/1057/Hyundai-IONIQ-Electric

That would be a problem for me, even if i did have £30K to spend on a car. Which i don't.

[.havoc]

Oh I'm not trying to convince you at all, you are all adults with your own requirements to what you need. I am just trying to balance out the sudden on rush of negativity and slight tinge of misunderstanding about them is all. What works for me doesn't mean it will work for you.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you on the cost to purchase, it only makes sense if you happen to already be in that pricing bracket. Otherwise it's years (10+) before the purchase price is balanced by the running cost. Although I'd say once you own an EV theres little reason to return, for me anyway as my other half has a petrol car so she can handle anything longer than my range can. But in theory you would make up those savings over time if you stuck with it. The only reason I actually went with the EV over the hybrid (was actually looking at the corolla) was because I am fortunate enough, or in other words lived at home long enough to blow money on cars - thanks parents!, to own a car in that bracket in the first place. It just so happened the Ioniq was being sold cheaper than the alternatives so it JUST crept into my price bracket (it was second hand, nowhere near 30k, at all!). Otherwise the cost to purchase would have been far too high.

And the hiring of the batteries I think is a particularly stupid idea myself, not a fan subscription services anyway!

The range can be an issue, I fortunately don't make that many long distance journeys though so thats why I can go electric. For others, it's not the time yet. Although I believe the Kona - still not cheap - can do 280miles, once this is more widespread, range anxiety becomes less of an issue and you can go from charging weekly for £3.50 to monthly for £3.50, at least that's my plan.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying they are perfect, for example I really dislike the fact that :

1. The cost of buying is higher than standard cars - as we have come to expect from early adopters tax
2. I can't drive with the air-con as it immediately dumps 10 miles from the range, though I prefer the windows open anyway
3. The charging infrastructure is actually a lot better than I thought! A LOT! BUT it's too fragmented. Pod point requires an app and account, Polar requires a subscription service & a physical "charge card" to use theirs (no thanks, only makes sense if regularly charging on the motorway), most don't support payments from contactless yet (wtf...), a lot of public charge points are taken up by non-ev's using its as a parking space (thanks...) or are just plain broken from vandalism or are inoperable. Zap Map is a great way of identifying them and finding out their status though.
4. Being a bit of a petrol head...I do miss the sound of a powerful engine
5. Remembering to charge it... haven't been caught out yet. Can't just get in and go, have to plan.
6. They always tend to look a little weird. Just make it look like a normal car! Looking at you BMW!
7. Costly manufacturing process

All that being said, I still think it's a great investment and it's definitely been the right decision for ME, even for just the cost savings alone.

[[GSV]Trig]

Until they have swappable batteries or can be quickly charged I'll pass.

[Corky34]

No, I've not even owned a car for the last 20 years.

[Dashers]

I do. I'm on my second Renault Zoe.

They both cost me new about £11,000 with a bit of haggling with the dealer, I've done both on the run of a mill PCP finance deal. Residual is around the £6K mark. The reason I went for PCP is because I didn't want the risk of trying to sell on second hand batteries, although that doesn't seem to have materialised as the second hand market seems easier to shift sales than second hand sports cars.

Renault push the battery rental idea, but you don't have to go this route. And it's not an option with a Nissan, for example. I um'ed on this for a while and I can see why they have done it. I pay ~£70/m on battery rental, the up shot of not owning the batteries is that when cells start to fail, they'll be replaced - quite a piece of mind.

It also doesn't really matter when you're buying a car on finance, there's just a monthly outgoing - however Renault want to dice that up is fairly irrelevant. Then there was just the raw financials of it. I was spending about £250/m on petrol. My first Zoe cost me £175/m including battery rental - I'm already quids in. I had no initial deposit on the first one, so it was literally just paying £175/m from day one until the end.

On the other hand, Nissan made a good point, it's not just one giant battery, yes cells will start to fail and you'll pay to replace them bit at a time. Just like you pay to replace other components on mechanically more complex standard cars.

At the end of 3 years in my first Zoe, there was no noticeable deterioration on the charge it would hold and nothing flagged up in servicing. I also had the option if I kept that one (100 mile range version) to upgrade the batteries with at a small cost (never investigated, so don't know how much) to the newer higher density batteries in the newer vehicles.

Instead I go a new one which realistically can do 200 miles in stop-start over very hilly terrain.

To the commenter above who lives in the country, so do I. There were no charging points anywhere near us for a long time, but it's not a problem if you have off-street parking as if you buy new, a charger is bundled for free (including fitting). I'd say on average we charge publicly less than once per year. That said, if you're a motorway warrior and doing regular > 200 miles a day without wanting a twenty minute stop at the services, then an electric car isn't for you.

Range anxiety on the low-mileage Zoe disappeared pretty quickly as we got faith in the "miles remaining", and took it down to 4 miles left on more than one occasion. Combined with free recovery even for flat batteries bundled in, it just was a non-issue. My current 200+ version it isn't even a thought. I was in deep Somerset a few years ago and spoke to a Leaf driver in a carpark as the last time I checked there were no charging points around, she said she just charges at home and I was welcome to charge my car up - I didn't need to, I was just interested, but with more owners around, in a push, you could probably blag a charge off somebody.

On the sustainable side of things. About half of the UK's carbon emissions are passenger cars. And about half of the average house hold's carbon emissions is transport. An electric car combined with a carbon-neutral energy tariff (plus we have solar that helps) is a great way to reduce that, substantially. Now, they're not perfect, and they're not a long-term solution. Battery cars will be here for a long time, but other technologies are more sustainable longer term. Manufacturing of batteries and recycling is tricky at the moment, but improving year on year. Of course, if you can do without a car, then that's even better, we can't.

Would you be better off in getting a second hand small engined petrol car? Possibly, but that's already a different market segment we're talking about.

On the second hand front, a colleague of mine picked up a Leaf for about £6K and is happy as larry with it. The batteries are still in top shape and he plans to drive it into the ground. When the batteries are no longer good enough for the car he intends to use it as a very large battery pack for the home-solar, extending the life of the batteries even further. But who knows, by then recycling might make more sense.

I went into the show room with a chip on my shoulder and no intention of getting one, just to humour my wife. I'm happily on my second now. What are the downsides to electric ownership? Off-street parking is, in my opinion, a must. Just being able to chuck it on charge whenever makes owning one easier than any fossil-fuelled car. The range is there now, I used to say it's an excellent second car, but I'd be happy in having electric as my only car and renting on the occasion I want to drive to the middle of nowhere.

The Zoe is primarily my wife's car, we use it as much as possible, and share commutes when we can. And I do have a conventional petrol sports-car; it's used a lot less frequently now and still allows for me to go out for a fun drive every now and then.

Is there a down-side to owning a £11K Renault? Yes, plenty. It doesn't compare to a £60K Audi, but that's not down to the electric drive train.

If you're in the market for a sub-20K (Fiesta starts at £12K, Golf at £18K, last year's top selling cars), then I'd highly recommend going and test driving an electric car.

[Saracen999]

Comments here from .havoc and Dashers are very interesting. It's exacyly the kind of feedback, from existing owners, that is helpful. If nothing else, it cuts through some of both the marketing hype and resistance to change, to give a feel for real-workd usage.

Thanks, guys.

It also helps a bit cut through what's probably my singke biggest reservation .... I understand the petrol (ir diesel) m8del perfectly well, but some of the aspects of EV are, to me at least, still a bit of a mystery.

One biggie is that when I buy a car, it tends to be for a LONG duration. My last non-utilitarian purchase was 20+ years ago (excluding the run-around). That, for example, means the cost of the vehicle can be spread over 20 years of more, making an expensive car far more appealing than if you change cars every three (say) years, which means you eat the most expensive bit all the time, every year, on a 3-year cycle. Work out what that adds up to on, a normal midrange car at about £20k and you'll see my point. This, obviously, applies to those buying cars new, which I have since the '80s.

But .... it does mean I have to try to predict what might happen with, say, batteries, not just 3 or 5 years down the road, or even 10, but 20 ir 25 years in. And ... batteries? Dunno. Just don't know.

The next non-run-around I buy will almost certainly be my last, and the data to give me peace of mind doesn't exist. I think it's just too early in the life of EVs for me to be prepared to take the risk, mewning I either have to wait, and that puts the 20-25 year plan at risk, or jump now but with petrol .... and hope I can still get it in 20 years.

[ohmaheid]

Those that will 'never' get an EV. I can remember the same statements when the smoking ban was introduced. Something along the lines of "They'll never stop me smoking wherever i want" etc.
I suspect the same will happen to fossil fuel transport. When they are eventually forced to queueing up to share the few gas pumps that are left on the forecourts, amidst the dirty looks and sniggers, as they pay a fortune to keep their dinosaurs going.
In 30 years there will hardly be a gasoline driven car to be seen.

[peterb]

In 30 years there will hardly be a gasoline driven car to be seen.

In 30 years time cars technology will have evolved to include better battery technology or batteries will have given way to alternative clean fuels like hydrogen. The cars will probably be autonomous requiring no driver intervention apart from exceptional circumstances.

[AGTDenton]

I do not have an electric car.

Neither my home nor my place of work have the infrastructure in place, and very unlikely to in the near future if ever. The cost to have charging points put in place for every space is very high and disruptive.

I'm more interested in how hydrogen develops, if I can fill on the go it's far more convenient and what I see as a better diesel alternative.
Waiting for my car to charge just so I can get home is a terrible idea. I have regularly driven to Scotland and back in a day. I could not currently do that with the battery or charging tech of today.