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Thread: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

  1. #17
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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tunnah View Post
    No sorry mate that's just not true, at all. You can't equate such a minor thing with something so massive. You end up lumping people in 2 very different circumstances into the same group, and it's insidious
    Minor thing?

    A very common example of VPN fraud with easy maths is Youtube Premium. £11.99 a month at the full rate (or £8.99 if you get a promotional rate), or £1.99ish if you fraudulently obtain membership via a VPN.

    Thats £10 a month, or £120 a year you are defrauding Google of, and when there are thousand and thousands of people doing this sort of scam, that is a lot of money they are losing. Next thing people often say is "well, i'd never pay for it at £11.99 so they are actually GAINING £1.99 a month"..well no, thats rubbish too, as now Google is paying a fixed price per 1000 YT Premium views to content creators, rather than the advertisors paying it, so no, Google are definitely losing out.

    Just because they are Google and "they can afford it" or "they are too big to care" doesn't make it right, or justifiable. Same principle applies to games of course, but the maths is a lot more complicated given that you have many more parties involved in taking a cut, so its harder to work out how much is being "lost".

    It does not compute for me that scamming companies like this can every be justifiable. If you can't afford it then don't buy the service...don't steal it or scam it for pennies.
    Last edited by Spud1; 31-07-2020 at 05:34 PM.

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    Hardcore Tory, Lost Cause Ttaskmaster's Avatar
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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Can't help but think that if Epic were doing this VPN thing, they'd be slammed for taking away the consumer's choice...!
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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    Minor thing?

    A very common example of VPN fraud with easy maths is Youtube Premium. £11.99 a month at the full rate (or £8.99 if you get a promotional rate), or £1.99ish if you fraudulently obtain membership via a VPN.

    Thats £10 a month, or £120 a year you are defrauding Google of, and when there are thousand and thousands of people doing this sort of scam, that is a lot of money they are losing. Next thing people often say is "well, i'd never pay for it at £11.99 so they are actually GAINING £1.99 a month"..well no, thats rubbish too, as now Google is paying a fixed price per 1000 YT Premium views to content creators, rather than the advertisors paying it, so no, Google are definitely losing out.

    Just because they are Google and "they can afford it" or "they are too big to care" doesn't make it right, or justifiable. Same principle applies to games of course, but the maths is a lot more complicated given that you have many more parties involved in taking a cut, so its harder to work out how much is being "lost".

    It does not compute for me that scamming companies like this can every be justifiable. If you can't afford it then don't buy the service...don't steal it or scam it for pennies.
    You're fighting for the side of the monolith while ignoring ramifications for the person, and I'm just not OK with it. You're talking about people as if they're some annoying statistic harming a poor company. When you remove the humanity in the actions of people you make it easier to judge people for the minor things they do rather than the reasons they're doing em.

    Your previous post was OK with equating someone trying to save a few quid with someone committing major fraud - "theft is theft, screw em all" (I'm inferring that I know you didn't directly say it). Now this mass lumping together of tiny things to make it into a big thing, it just doesn't sit right with me.

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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Spud, it is in essence saying that rich people should pay more for something than someone on benefits because they have more disposable income. Essentially that the price of everything should be means tested somehow. Is that what you think should happen? If not, then why just because it's different countries is that ok. Why not do it by postcode, or by tax code, or by some other discretisation?

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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    Minor thing?

    A very common example of VPN fraud with easy maths is Youtube Premium. £11.99 a month at the full rate (or £8.99 if you get a promotional rate), or £1.99ish if you fraudulently obtain membership via a VPN.

    Thats £10 a month, or £120 a year you are defrauding Google of, and when there are thousand and thousands of people doing this sort of scam, that is a lot of money they are losing. Next thing people often say is "well, i'd never pay for it at £11.99 so they are actually GAINING £1.99 a month"..well no, thats rubbish too, as now Google is paying a fixed price per 1000 YT Premium views to content creators, rather than the advertisors paying it, so no, Google are definitely losing out.

    Just because they are Google and "they can afford it" or "they are too big to care" doesn't make it right, or justifiable. Same principle applies to games of course, but the maths is a lot more complicated given that you have many more parties involved in taking a cut, so its harder to work out how much is being "lost".

    It does not compute for me that scamming companies like this can every be justifiable. If you can't afford it then don't buy the service...don't steal it or scam it for pennies.
    If they can sell it at £1.99 a month and make a profit (why would they sell at a loss?) then surely £11.99 is price gouging? Video hosting costs are identical if you're in New York or New Delhi.

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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    Minor thing?

    A very common example of VPN fraud with easy maths is Youtube Premium. £11.99 a month at the full rate (or £8.99 if you get a promotional rate), or £1.99ish if you fraudulently obtain membership via a VPN.

    Thats £10 a month, or £120 a year you are defrauding Google of, and when there are thousand and thousands of people doing this sort of scam, that is a lot of money they are losing. Next thing people often say is "well, i'd never pay for it at £11.99 so they are actually GAINING £1.99 a month"..well no, thats rubbish too, as now Google is paying a fixed price per 1000 YT Premium views to content creators, rather than the advertisors paying it, so no, Google are definitely losing out.

    Just because they are Google and "they can afford it" or "they are too big to care" doesn't make it right, or justifiable. Same principle applies to games of course, but the maths is a lot more complicated given that you have many more parties involved in taking a cut, so its harder to work out how much is being "lost".

    It does not compute for me that scamming companies like this can every be justifiable. If you can't afford it then don't buy the service...don't steal it or scam it for pennies.
    I am not saying I agree with using a vpn to get a cheaper product from another country. However when large companies use tax havens and pay around 1% tax when smaller companies and individuals pay 20% tax is this really a fair comparison?

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  9. #23
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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    I mean it's not like large companies move virtual money between countries to pay less tax where the goods are actually sold. Just sending my £5M invoice to the stationary department for a new stapler to balance the books...

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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    AFAIK,Epic have some severe rules on VPNs too.

    I suspect,its the publishers who are moaning at this,as they get the biggest cut out of the sales. Games are increasingly being pushed up in price.


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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Quote Originally Posted by lodore View Post
    I am not saying I agree with using a vpn to get a cheaper product from another country. However when large companies use tax havens and pay around 1% tax when smaller companies and individuals pay 20% tax is this really a fair comparison?
    This situation isn't about the companies and how much tax they pay though, this loophole is being closed off because what would happen otherwise is not that prices would drop everywhere, companies would simply stop doing the cheaper pricing in the countries that couldn't afford the regular prices, meaning that the people saving a few quid they could afford anyway would end up stopping those poorer people from getting the thing entirely.

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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Seems Spud1 is all for rip off Britain. I recently purchased some DLC game content, Steam wanted well over £45, I purchased it for £12 from another UK company and got a Steam code that worked perfectly, suppose I should have should paid Steams rip off prices in your mind! It's well known we always been ripped off in the UK, that's why it's called rip off Britain. It pays to shop around, by whatever means :-)

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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron-ski View Post
    Seems Spud1 is all for rip off Britain. I recently purchased some DLC game content, Steam wanted well over £45, I purchased it for £12 from another UK company and got a Steam code that worked perfectly, suppose I should have should paid Steams rip off prices in your mind! It's well known we always been ripped off in the UK, that's why it's called rip off Britain. It pays to shop around, by whatever means :-)
    not by whatever means, but by legal means certainly. Same as not paying dealer prices for legit parts you can get from trade suppliers or independent fitters. Or by shopping within the EU, for the few months we have left to do that. Stupid brexit and all who fell for it. But yes, it seems to me that saying country by country pricing is fair is essentially saying pricing by banding is fair, and I am against that. Something should cost what it costs. End of. Same as I don't like supermarkets or high street chains charging differently in London than Aberdeen. Why? If a fish costs X and tomatoes cost Y that is the price. Not £££ for me and £ for Jimmy McThrifty. Beyond that is profiteering and that's not right. If we have the concept of equal work for equal pay, then the flip should be equal pricing for all. I don't adjust my charge band for rich clients just because, nor do I do less work for average clients because they can't afford as much. (With the exception of charitable causes where I do work for free/reduced rates because that just seems the right thing to do.) Am I mad? Is this not what other people think/do? Should I be trying to screw everyone over for whatever I can get? That doesn't seem right.

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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Regional pricing exists to reduce piracy in lower income nations,so they use higher prices in richer countries to subsidise it. The problem,is at the same time,some of these companies are making huge margins and still are not paying their employees enough! Almost permanent crunch time!
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 04-08-2020 at 11:38 PM.


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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    If I am a company that wants to buy a widget for my products, I can buy that widget anywhere in the world subject to trade embargoes and any import taxes that may be levied.

    Why is it wrong for me to do the same as a consumer?

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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Quote Originally Posted by QuorTek View Post
    but having a way to commit tax fraud and more.
    With the likes of Amazon, Apple, Costa and thousands of others avoiding billions, if not trillions of pounds worth of tax, I really really REALLY couldn't care less if John from Wigan is dodging £6 of tax on his purchase of Call of Duty.
    This is just being a savvy shopper IMO. Especially when you're aware of the savings that can be found!

    I have a friend who bought Forza Motorsport 7 (which was an absolute car crash of a game, plagued with issues, people getting banned from the forums for complaining about the game, crashes left right and centre, multiple aspects of the game just entirely unfinished). I paid £79.99 for it, he got it for £31 from the Russian version of the Windows store.

    If games retailers want to go after the consumer for dodging tax and not paying full price, so should the massive corporations who are in a much better position to do so. If it works at the top, it can work at the bottom too.

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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonigan View Post
    If it works at the top, it can work at the bottom too.
    Disclaimer/Important safety tip - This rather catchy slogan only applies to the purchase of goods and services. It does not always apply to all other areas of life, too. Those who have partners will understand...!!
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    Re: Valve puts the squeeze on Steam Store VPN shoppers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Disclaimer/Important safety tip - This rather catchy slogan only applies to the purchase of goods and services. It does not always apply to all other areas of life, too. Those who have partners will understand...!!
    Depends on the partner.


    Or so I'm told.

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