Apple Mac mini gives one in the eye to Win MCE

[autopilot]

1. Perhaps. I'd rather have an MCE rig that's good to handle media AND good to game on.

Yes, but what MCE gaming system could you build for the price of one of these (which will probably be around for around £400)?

[darrensen]

Okay lets address these then.

1. Performance awful? Erm, this is not designed to be a high end gaming rig – and will do the simple functions fine which is what market segments its aimed at.
2. Can you upgrade all notebooks? Can you upgrade all Macs? No
3. Well – that’s what warranty is for
4. Limited – in what sense?
5. Limited disk space – sure that’s something which I wouldn’t love.

Apple are not touting this as a total Media Centre - far from it – they are offering a small, quiet, box which works.

MCE is going to be ahead but this isn’t got a Media Centre fight.

1. I was refering to the machine as a whole. For example using it as a day to day machine. Hard Drive spin speeds, Hard Drive Capacity etc...
2. That's just a downside for mac and plus for PC
3. I'm on about out of warranty repairs......Damm expensive as i know working in i.t for a publishing firm!
4. As in front row for the Mac's. Doesnt really do a lot compaired to Media Centre
5. As agreed on

It's alright for the money, but not a replacement for a Media Centre.

[nichomach]

Yes, but what MCE gaming system could you build for the price of one of these?

Microsoft Windows XP Media Center 2005 (oem) £69.00
Shuttle ST20G5 Mini Aluminium Barebone system for AMD Socket 939, On Board VGA with DVI, Gigabit LAN, PCI-E, USB2, Firewire, SATA RAID, 8ch. Audio. £201.30
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice Core 64 bit 512k L2 Cache skt 939 OEM £117.66
Corsair® Value Select 1GB DDR PC3200 Kit (2 x 512MB) £54.40
160 GB Samsung HD160JJ SATA2 7200rpm 8mb cache oem £45.50
Lite-on SHW-160P6S-05C Black DL DVD +/-R/RW oem +software £24.12

£601.58 inc VAT for a box that puts me on par with the Mac Mini £599 variant, at least - BTW, these are retail components from Microdirect (and there are cheaper places), so I'm looking at end user prices, which Apple aren't, and yes I've included the MCE OS. Now to upgrade that, I can chuck in a Nova-T PCI DVB-T card for £47.82. Now there I've spent no more than a Mac user would have to, yet I've got a fully featured MCE PC WITH PVR functionality, and I can (if I want to) chuck in a PCI-E graphics card which'd mean I had all that PLUS gaming capability. And as I say, bear in mind that I've thrown that together at retail prices, rather than the prices that a major OEM like, say, Apple could get for buying in bulk. Hell, assuming I'm only outputting to a TV, something like an X1600-series card could probably handle that.

[Bob Crabtree]

Describing this as "one in the eye" for XP MCE is ludicrously overstating its merits and ignoring its glaring shortfalls; basically the sort of headline that you'd HAVE to be an Apple fanboy...sorry...afficionado to write.

I know I'm doing something right when I get called an Apple fanboy by Windows bigots and a Windows fanboy by Mac bigots - as regularly happens.

The real bottom line in the case of the Mac mini will only be delivered here if we ever manage to get hands on because, as my track-record shows, the reviews I'm involved with pull no punches.

[Bob Crabtree]

Sorry, when I say "bigots", I do, of course, mean aficionados.

[Bob Crabtree]

I think they are a great idea - and why do you need graphics acceleration to view movies and DVDs anyways.

For £45 you can get a TV tuner which will make it just as good as any other MCE PC - and for £400 they are a bargin. I have just ordered one, heh.

Then we fully expect to hear you feedback in a few days time!

Pretty please.

[autopilot]

Go Bob

[nichomach]

"fanboy" was needlessly provocative, you're right. My apologies. That said, the substance of my objections remains; this box is in no way any sort of MCE killer. I'd also note that I'm hardly a Windows bigot either; one doesn't have to be to note the shortcomings of this box in terms of its potential as a media centre.

[darrensen]

Oh don't you just love the war between mac and windows!!!!!!!

[DR]

The other thing which people are missing is that it comes with SATA hdd which is great.

Also Nicho - I understand what you are saying, but you have the knowledge to integrate most people don't

If you want to build a PC to the same specification use something like this AOPEN one: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=937






I can see Apple using this to deliver content to the TV rather than be a TV tuner system.

Why not just get an IPod and do this: http://lifestyle.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=4392

[DR]

I am currently using a Pebble Beach:

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.ph...414&search=p60

2.16Ghz Yonah, 2GB Ram, 40GB SATA Drive, DVDRW, all the nails hit hard in

[DR]

1. I was refering to the machine as a whole. For example using it as a day to day machine. Hard Drive spin speeds, Hard Drive Capacity etc...

Uhm - I use a Pebble Beach day to day with the same drive - don't forget this isn't a 4200RPM drive...

2. That's just a downside for mac and plus for PC

Yep!

3. I'm on about out of warranty repairs......Damm expensive as i know working in i.t for a publishing firm!

Everyone company has out of warranty costs, try getting a Dell specfic motherboard out of warranty. People don't tend to have these out of warranty - meaning there is a Years warranty on it?

4. As in front row for the Mac's. Doesnt really do a lot compaired to Media Centre

Of course....

5. As agreed on

Yes...


It's alright for the money, but not a replacement for a Media Centre.

[Bob Crabtree]

"fanboy" was needlessly provocative, you're right. My apologies. That said, the substance of my objections remains; this box is in no way any sort of MCE killer. I'd also note that I'm hardly a Windows bigot either; one doesn't have to be to note the shortcomings of this box in terms of its potential as a media centre.

No apology needed (but gratefully received nonetheless).

But, it's almost as though you'd have been content if I had put a question mark at the end of the headline.

I mean to say, if you read the article, haven't I listed - reasonably accurately - the Mac mini's shortcomings?

And, surely, there are two main thrusts to the piece - first, "Here's the form-factor target for MCE builders to aim for" and, second, "Apple itself must do better" - even if the latter was not explicitly stated?

All this said, I do think that the debate in this thread is likely to end up being far more illuminating than my original piece - and that, of course, is the very reason why we create related forum threads for most editorial.

Mind you, I'd be a bit happier if we get some input from people who are already using Macs (including the previous gen mini) as media centre PCs, and rather more hands-on feedback on the latest version of Apple's Front Row front end.

So, come on you Mac er, um, aficionados, let us hear your views.

[TheAnimus]

An intresting question i think might be why would someone want/need such small factor for a media box?

I'd want silence over size for media box.

just my 2 cents

[nichomach]

No apology needed (but gratefully received nonetheless).
But, it's almost as though you'd have been content if I had put a question mark at the end of the headline.

Quite probably, actually .

I mean to say, if you read the article, haven't I listed - reasonably accurately - the Mac mini's shortcomings?

Quite a few of them, yes - which is why I found the disparityy between the headline and the content annoying.

And, surely, there are two main thrusts to the piece - first, "Here's the form-factor target for MCE builders to aim for" and, second, "Apple itself must do better" - even if the latter was not explicitly stated?

Actually, here's where we start to diverge; I don't think that Media Centres have to be tiny. They should be as quiet as possible and they should be unobtrusive, but then I think a good quality SFF PC can be both. Also I think that some of the larger specifically targeted MC cases, although bigger, offer so much more functionality that it's simply no contest.

Further, I think that David hit the nail on the head; this isn't a media centre, it's a platform for content delivery - if you could record CSI on it via a TV tuner, then you wouldn't be paying $2 an episode to download it. That's the key difference; in the same way that although you can place media on an ipod, the idea is to lock you in to Apple's iTunes and get you to pay for content, you can put media on this device, but the only way you'll get new content on it is via Apple.

In essence, it's not a media centre, it's a tollbooth that you pay for and then pay via, at least as far as media functionality is concerned. I have no doubt that it would be a good general purpose computer, however, and in this regard it represents GREATLY enhanced value over the previous minis.

[Bob Crabtree]

Further, I think that David hit the nail on the head; this isn't a media centre, it's a platform for content delivery - if you could record CSI on it via a TV tuner, then you wouldn't be paying $2 an episode to download it. That's the key difference; in the same way that although you can place media on an ipod, the idea is to lock you in to Apple's iTunes and get you to pay for content, you can put media on this device, but the only way you'll get new content on it is via Apple.

In essence, it's not a media centre, it's a tollbooth that you pay for and then pay via, at least as far as media functionality is concerned.

Okay, you make the point very well but, of course, you can add an external TV tuner and, even without a tuner, you can access all the good stuff that is available on the internet.