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Thread: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

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    Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    The fastest card we have tested?
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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    Why don't you bother having RTX based results (Ray Tracing etc). I know there's only 5 base cards to test, but then you can just copy and paste the results from review to review.

    Still feels like something naff is going on here. Did you get your hands slapped by Nvidia to stop doing it?

    What was so special about the EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 XC Ultra that that was the only card you did a Ray Tracing analysis for and put a spread in the actual review for?

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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    I was about to say, does anyone even care about raytracing. It's the choice of high resolution, or enabling something that makes a tiny bit of visual difference. It's a piece of tech that needs about 3 more generations before it's even usable.

    But your point is kinda intriguing, if they did a spread previously and suddenly stopped. Who doesn't love a good journalistic conspiracy! *grabs popcorn*

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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    Quote Originally Posted by Tunnah View Post
    I was about to say, does anyone even care about raytracing. It's the choice of high resolution, or enabling something that makes a tiny bit of visual difference. It's a piece of tech that needs about 3 more generations before it's even usable.

    But your point is kinda intriguing, if they did a spread previously and suddenly stopped. Who doesn't love a good journalistic conspiracy! *grabs popcorn*
    *tin foil hat*

    Frankly, it feels like Nvidia are strong arming reviewers to do their best not to review the RTX features unless they are saying how good it is.

    It's new tech, yes. It's going to suck because it's early adoption, yes. Should you do the proper reviewers stance and integrity and review the card for what it is and not what nvidia wants it to be, damn effing straight you should.

    It's a shame because the RTX released has really shown me which reviewers i can actually trust for their integrity. Hexus has lost that trust over this feature launch.

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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    *tin foil hat*

    Frankly, it feels like Nvidia are strong arming reviewers to do their best not to review the RTX features unless they are saying how good it is.

    It's new tech, yes. It's going to suck because it's early adoption, yes. Should you do the proper reviewers stance and integrity and review the card for what it is and not what nvidia wants it to be, damn effing straight you should.

    It's a shame because the RTX released has really shown me which reviewers i can actually trust for their integrity. Hexus has lost that trust over this feature launch.
    Aye, the thing is, they've built and advertised (and priced!) the entire line around RTX, they're pushing this technology hard, they're forcing it down our throats even though nobody wants it and nobody sure as hell wants to pay out the arse for it, so I think it's only right they are benchmarked, and shown to be an absolute joke and rip off.

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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    Quote Originally Posted by Tunnah View Post
    Aye, the thing is, they've built and advertised (and priced!) the entire line around RTX, they're pushing this technology hard, they're forcing it down our throats even though nobody wants it and nobody sure as hell wants to pay out the arse for it, so I think it's only right they are benchmarked, and shown to be an absolute joke and rip off.
    Well, if Hexus is being squeezed by Nvidia, Tarinder will not answer. If Hexus is just being lazy/incompetent then Tarinder would not want to admit it.

    I don't believe Hexus to be lazy/incompetent so that leads me to my only other avenue which reviewers are being squeezed. Take a look at Hardware Unboxed, they didn't say the nicest things expected by Nvidia so they fluffed them for the 2060 launch.

    It's a shame really, journalistic integrity is taking second place to greed.

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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbykatze View Post
    Well, if Hexus is being squeezed by Nvidia, Tarinder will not answer. If Hexus is just being lazy/incompetent then Tarinder would not want to admit it.

    I don't believe Hexus to be lazy/incompetent so that leads me to my only other avenue which reviewers are being squeezed. Take a look at Hardware Unboxed, they didn't say the nicest things expected by Nvidia so they fluffed them for the 2060 launch.

    It's a shame really, journalistic integrity is taking second place to greed.
    Hi Tabbykatze,

    Here is a surprise; I am answering.

    I can assure you that Nvidia hasn't been strong-arming reviewers to not cover ray tracing. It's saddening to think that you believe that to be the case. Ray tracing is so niche it is barely worth covering - and that is the primary reason for not doing so, not Nvidia - although we have done so already in the EVGA RTX 2060. It was more or less the same when the Vulkan API was introduced - very few games supported it and it was worth covering in passing.

    When a few more games are using it, becoming more mainstream, we will cover it.

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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinder View Post
    Hi Tabbykatze,

    Here is a surprise; I am answering.

    I can assure you that Nvidia hasn't been strong-arming reviewers to not cover ray tracing. It's saddening to think that you believe that to be the case. Ray tracing is so niche it is barely worth covering - and that is the primary reason for not doing so, not Nvidia - although we have done so already in the EVGA RTX 2060. It was more or less the same when the Vulkan API was introduced - very few games supported it and it was worth covering in passing.

    When a few more games are using it, becoming more mainstream, we will cover it.
    Hi Tarinder, I really appreciate you answering.

    The problem I have about the response which is similar to one given a while back when I poked this last time was RTX (remember, RTX is both RT and DLSS) was too new and would be too time consuming when results can constantly change.

    Vulkan is a hard argument to use as that was a global API that can be used by anyone and was an alternative to DX. RTX is the mainstay advertisement of the new Nvidia brand to a point that otherwise well known and respected journalists went crazy. Take Toms Hardware, they said to "just buy it, how can you live without it" and everyone heralded Nvidia RTX as being *fist swing* "gosh darn it the most revolutionary thing to come to gaming since tesselation and vector based graphics!"

    There are arguments being waged over that equivalent hardware from a competitor at an equivalent price is not worth buying because it does not have ray tracing or DLSS.

    When you boil it down to that, there is the rap which I find the difficulty with. Nvidia have put so many of their eggs into the Ray Tracing (and DLSS) corner that they even changed the name of their mainstream GPUs that they have been using for pretty much a decade!

    When those facets are the primary Unique Selling Point of your product then they are not reviewed or touched on in reviews of products, how do people make informed decisions on what they are buying? And then you get douchebaguettes like me who go wtf?

    Therein lies the rub.

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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    Nvidia have lost their (pricing model) minds. I paid £780 for 1080Ti Seahawk X when it first came out. £1500 for 2080Ti? You are having a laugh.

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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    Hi Tabbykatze,

    Our fundamental aim when reviewing a partner product is to give sage buying advice - is it worth buying right now? It is not, as it may seem on first glance, a judgement on the underlying technology; that is left to the original architecture review.

    Such an aim can only be evaluated correctly when compared to the performance/price of its peers, and this is why we have so many cards in the graphs. That being the case, we look at a number of games that all cards can play - so no RT or DLSS - and judge accordingly.

    As it stands, the RTX 2080 Ti, especially this one, is the fastest card going, running at a speed that AMD cannot hope to match for a long while. So for those with pockets deep enough, it is a great rasterising solution. Those are facts irrespective of RT/DLSS.

    Now let's say we add some RT and DLSS benchmarks, as you want in each review, solely for a few RTX cards, and the RTX 2080 Ti produces reasonable frame rates at all resolutions, which it does in BFV. These features are the cherry on the top, not the cake itself, which is, remember, top-notch rasterisation performance.

    My point is that the RT and DLSS performance, limited to so few games, isn't so relevant right now, because the card is already way better than anything from the previous generation and the competition doesn't support either new technology. It makes more sense to look into these 'cherry' features as and when the software is there; even Nvidia admits that RTX came out too early and was rushed in this regard. The important distinction is that it is not Nvidia stopping us from doing so; it is the state of the rushed market. If Nvidia can be accused of doing anything wrong, it is in not getting enough RT and DLSS support into the market, and I am very happy to castigate the company for that.

    Coming back to point, in today's games there is nothing better than this card, and that is what the review says.

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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinder View Post
    Hi Tabbykatze,

    Our fundamental aim when reviewing a partner product is to give sage buying advice - is it worth buying right now? It is not, as it may seem on first glance, a judgement on the underlying technology; that is left to the original architecture review.

    Such an aim can only be evaluated correctly when compared to the performance/price of its peers, and this is why we have so many cards in the graphs. That being the case, we look at a number of games that all cards can play - so no RT or DLSS - and judge accordingly.

    As it stands, the RTX 2080 Ti, especially this one, is the fastest card going, running at a speed that AMD cannot hope to match for a long while. So for those with pockets deep enough, it is a great rasterising solution. Those are facts irrespective of RT/DLSS.

    Now let's say we add some RT and DLSS benchmarks, as you want in each review, solely for a few RTX cards, and the RTX 2080 Ti produces reasonable frame rates at all resolutions, which it does in BFV. These features are the cherry on the top, not the cake itself, which is, remember, top-notch rasterisation performance.

    My point is that the RT and DLSS performance, limited to so few games, isn't so relevant right now, because the card is already way better than anything from the previous generation and the competition doesn't support either new technology. It makes more sense to look into these 'cherry' features as and when the software is there; even Nvidia admits that RTX came out too early and was rushed in this regard. The important distinction is that it is not Nvidia stopping us from doing so; it is the state of the rushed market. If Nvidia can be accused of doing anything wrong, it is in not getting enough RT and DLSS support into the market, and I am very happy to castigate the company for that.

    Coming back to point, in today's games there is nothing better than this card, and that is what the review says.
    Hi Tarinder,

    That is a much better explanation on the matter than I have had previously and my opinion is skewed by how much Nvidia is trying to ram RTX down everyones throats. It is the best card on the market and its non-RTX features are a testimony to that fact.

    I still do feel that there still should be a page just like there was on the EVGA XC Ultra 2060 review. Even if that is just for the Ray Tracing 3D Mark Port Royal testing which shouldn't add a phenomenal amount of time to the review.

    My opinion is focused on taking the whole solution as it is, I still disagree on leaving out the Ray Tracing aspect in reviews because I feel if no one is reviewing it then how will people know what they get for their money. The rasterisation is fantastic but what about the other features?

    Also, it's a bit of a catch 22 because if there is no mindshare because no reviewers are talking about it then will developers pursue it? Reviewers are just as responsible for generating demand because they are generally the first place gamers look for finding out what they are getting.

    I'm still in the corner that reviewers should be reviewing the core marketing aspect of Nvidias (or anyones) new line of cards, even if it is just a single page with just Port Royal (because that is generally going to be considered stable and generally unchanging) and I don't believe much will change my opinion on that.

    However, I am satisfied with your explanation as to why you haven't but I will withhold my thoughts further on this matter except for what I have said above.

    Thank you for your time replying, it is much appreciated.

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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    I am glad they chose the nylon weaved tubing rather than that ghastly ribbed plastic stuff gigabyte went for.

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    Re: Inno3D GeForce RTX 2080 Ti iChiLL Black

    Quote Originally Posted by NorBdelta View Post
    I am glad they chose the nylon weaved tubing rather than that ghastly ribbed plastic stuff gigabyte went for.
    do you mean the Aorus 2080 Ti Xtreme WaterForce 11G, that's got a very similar tubing to this one?
    https://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/124685-aorus-gives-rtx-2080-ti-waterforce-treatment/

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