HEXUS.reviews :: Sapphire Technology Radeon X1600 Pro HDMI 256MiB

[shaithis]

Thanks - but I'm still unclear as to whether or not HDCP encoded material is decoded at the card and forwarded to the display, or whether the display has to be HD-Ready (not simply HD-Compatible).

I understand that none HDCP stuff will be okay, because that's sent to the display in "plain language" and without any restrictions.

HDCP is only a physical connection protection scheme for digital connections. When playing protected media and digital connections are present, they must all be HDCP enabled for the signal to pass from one end to the other....

The upside to all this though is the HDCP only pertains to DIGITAL connections. The likes of component and VGA are not applicable.....and you can output most protected material via analog connections currently due to the ICT flag being disabled on just about everything until 2010(ish) due to Japan dragging their heals Even when the ICT flag is set, it only downscales video to standard definaition resolutions.

Ooops, just realised that my monitor doesn't support DVI either - so I'm going to need two converters HDMI->DVI->VGA to see HDCP content (if it works at all).

That will not work as the first step is a digital connection...although you can buy a box of tricks that will take a HDMI or DVI HDCP protected signal and strip the protection from it and output it to DVI or VGA.....but they currently cost £200+ and their legality are questionable, plus the AACS protection on future media can be updated to reconise your illegal box and stop the source material playing through it.

[RobAnt]

Yea, I've pretty much got that. Your final paragraph is very interesting - no doubt the designers of those boxes will find ways to update them so that AACS protection can be circumvented too - maybe via an online update, or something - who knows?

Some initial impressions on the card - It seems to be at least on a par with my previous card, an nVidia 6600 LE from PNY, maybe a little better, or at least different.

Installing the drivers was a bit of a pita - because I installed the card and let XP automatically install the driver. As a result I didn't install the Catalyst software. It was initially very very sluggish, taking a couple of seconds just to draw the wallpaper!!

However, after finding the updated drivers and software on the ATi site (not the Sapphire site, as suggested in the quick start), screen refresh is perfect now.

With my MSI NEO 2.6Ghz P4/1.5gb Memory/Sata 130Gb hd based PC I find I can play MS Combat FS 3 very very well at the highest detail setting (1280x768), but it's just a bit quicker at setting 4/5 - maybe I can keep the speed but increase one or two more of the detail settings. I'll have to have a play about.

I haven't tried Doom3 or Quake4 yet.

The SPDIF connection is SPDIF in - presumably to feed the HDMI socket.

The VGA output automatically defines itself as screen 2 - even if it's the only output - but this doesn't seem to be a problem.

I think the review, now I've got the card, was a bit sketchy in parts for real users - mention of this and that technology doesn't necessarily mean it'll work in the way you hope and being a bit more specific might have been useful.

I still have no idea whether or not VIVO is enabled on this card, and don't understand whether AVIVO and VIVO are related.

:\

[RobAnt]

Ok, now I am quite a bit more impressed.

One of the problems I'd been having with my monitor, an LTV30C from V7 was solar & polarization around strong light sources. That is with standard DVD players playing non-HD material and with my previous 6600LE playing downloaded HD files.

The Sapphire card isn't perfect, but it does a much much much better job than the 6600LE in smoothing out these artifacts.

The worst case I found of the problem is in Microsoft's HD Showcase, they have a video there titled The Living Sea (Streep & Sting). Light from above the water always, on almost every frame, causes solarisation with the 6600LE, which is rated as being HD compatible. With the Sapphire - almost none at all (a very small amount, which much more easily liveable). The improvement is worth the new card, especially considering it is roughly the same price as I paid for the 6600LE!

I'm warming to it, as a whole.

[RobAnt]

I've just been playing with FS 2004 - and again, custom level detail, with all the knobs turned up as high as they'll go - no real problem - just a bit of picture wobble, and quickly looking out of side windows you see the textures being added one by one - albeit quickly, but that is more detail than is available through the standard "Ultra High" setting which works near perfectly.

But for the record, with the FPS locked down at 40 FPS I noted that on the ground I was getting between 19 & 29FPS, in the air, with the cockpit in view, about 38fps, usually, but somewhat lower with the Cockpit removed - around 29 again. Of course aerobatics, or even simple turns had a big effect on frame rate - but this is to be expected.

I noted these while I had selected the Cottesmore scenary from the RAF Vulcan add-on pack, but was flying a Spitfire Mk V.

Again, note that my system isn't a super system, it is outlined here - from the Catalyst System Information page:

OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
System Manufacturer MICRO-STAR INC.
System Model MS-6728
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~2600 Mhz
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~2600 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date American Megatrends Inc. V2.5, 29/09/2004
SMBIOS Version 2.3
Locale People's Republic of China ( - I run English and Chinese, as I'm learning Putonhua)
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)"
Total Physical Memory 1,536.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 830.16 MB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 7.35 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys

There isn't really two processors, of course.

It has two hard drives - a 130Gb Sata and a standard 40Gb IDE with two DVD/CD re-writers, and is custom built (well evolved is nearer the truth).

Personally, I'm happy with this performance, considering it is the Ultra High setting, and the spec of the rest of the machine. Maybe a faster processor/MB would improve performance, as I don't think it is really the Sapphire which is limiting performance here - but I'm not an expert in determining what is responsible for what.

Maybe tomorrow I'll get round to Doom3 or Quake4.

[RobAnt]

I have noted a couple of errors in the review:

You can see both HDMI and S/PDIF outputs at the rear of the card

There is no S/PDIF OUTPUT, only an input. Unless it is miss-labelled, but it specifically states INPUT. And this is actually reflected in the photograph of the backplane in the review.

There's a total of 256MiB of 792MHz-rated GDDR3 memory that interfaces with the card on a 128-bit bus, offering 12.5GiB/s of potential bandwidth.

This is not true according to Catalyst Control Centre information which states:

Memory Size 256 MB
Memory Type DDR2

Core Clock in MHz 500 MHz
Memory Clock in MHz 396 MHz

I don't think DDR2 is GDDR3, unless I'm mistaken. It is a serious difference from the review.

I think you would be well advised to get a production version, note that I'm using the AGP version, but there shouldn't be a significant difference in that regard, should there?

The photograph in the review version shows an HDMI and a VGA connector. In fact, mine came with an HDMI and a DVI connection, and the converter was a DVI to VGA, not HDMI to DVI, as stated in the review.

[Steve]

RobAnt, you appear to be correct about S/PDIF, so I've made that correction. However, a quick froogle search reveals that the card seems to be available in both DDR2 and GDDR3 variants.

[RobAnt]

Hmm Steve,

Well I ordered this (click) from Avides Media via Amazon - have I been ripped off?

And what about the difference (clearly indicated in your photos) between what I have and what you reviewed, in terms of a DVI interface, but vga only via an adapter.

Can you show me a site where DDR2 is indicated - in all that I've seen, it is being clearly advertised with GDDR3. Your review was for a GDDR3 version and no mention was made of a DDR2 version at all.

However, I'll have another look at your review now.

Steve, don't forget this is the HDMI PRO version of the Sapphire X1600 we are looking at here - which you have reviewed independantly of the X1600 - which is, indeed, DDR2!

[Steve]

Example of DDR2 HDMI X1600 Pro:
http://froogle.google.co.uk/froogle?...Search+Froogle

Example of GDDR3 HDMI X1600 Pro:
http://froogle.google.co.uk/froogle?...Search&show=dd

For the Amazon link you've provided, the product title clearly states DDR2, yet the specs within the product page contradict this, saying GDDR3. Evidently the title's right and the page itself is wrong.

[RobAnt]

Interesting.

Mine is the same SKU as the one listed by Systonix.

Looks like I've been "bamboozled" by the fact that I saw no indication in either your review, or their description that a DDR2 version was even in the offing for this particular device.

However, take a look at this, also on Amazon's website and showing the same PN as mine.

Clearly, everyone is confused by this memory issue - what is actually supposed to be on the card with PN 88-2E10-01 SA - SKU 11076-10-20R?

Can you catagorically confirm that what you reviewed, Steve, was a GDDR3 card?

Edit: - Ahh, I think I'm seeing what the difference is.

I have a AGP version, I wonder if all the AGP versions are DDR2? If so, confusion reigns thoughout.

I didn't get the low profile backplate adapters, either.



Rob

[Steve]

I'll ask the guy who wrote the review.

[RobAnt]

Just to update - I am still waiting for clarification from Sapphire on exactly what form factors are available with what memory.

It seems there may be a difference between AGP and PCI-E in the memory department. Whether or not that would make any difference could only be assessed by testing, and even then PCI-E is likely to be a more efficient design all round - one would need the two memory types to be available in AGP and PCI-E - I suspect that isn't the case.

[RobAnt]

While I'm still awaiting clarification from Sapphire as to which SKUs have GDDR3 memory - I'm fairly convinced that AGP versions have DDR2 - probably because there would be no benefit in using the higher rated GDDR3, given the fact that the card is natively PCI-E, with a special chip, I believe, to convert it to AGP. It is possible that the DDR2 memory is slightly cheaper, and offsets the cost of the conversion chip.

Anyway.

I've been setting up and generally messing with Doom3 for the past few hours. Results are very encouraging.

I refer you to my PCs specification, mentioned earlier in the thread.

I spent a while finding out how to set up Doom3 in 1280x768 mode - which involves messing with a configuration file Doom3's directory, and finding out how to turn on the FPS indicator.

I further set the game into ULTRA high quality (which it says requires 512mb of video memory - this card has 256mb), and turning on all the options.

Results were nothing short of amazing - there was absolutely no skipping, video quality was stunning and FPS measured from 35 to 60+ FPS - it varied a lot, but anything over 30 is unlikely to be noticed by the player anyway.

Very impressed. The game is extremely playable, and looks very well rendered indeed. I am well impressed with kit I can fit and forget. This card would seem to fit that category quite nicely. My only concern will the the longevity of the fan, which I cannot foresee. Fan's have a tendency to fail after a while in my experience, so for that reason I'm not a fan of fan's (if you'll excuse me).

Next up is Quake4, but I'm expecting similar results.

If anyone wants to send me something more recent (FPS & Sims are my bag), then please be my guest - I'm off sick, so don't find it easy to find the money for games, and this (along with a little photography and learning Mandarin Chinese) is filling up the hours of boredom quite nicely.

Zaijian for now. Jihuirjian.

[RobAnt]

Received from Sapphire today:

Dear Rob,

Having studied the spec sheet I sent you, there is not X1600 AGP DDR3 HDMI
card available...


Sapphire Technology
English Speaking European Technical Support

As I suspected.

[Gavincol78]

I am planning on getting a pair of these in the next week or 2 and I was wondering if anyone tried running this card in Crossfire mode?

[jontay]

Hi,
I've recently got this card and haven't been able to get any video signal using the HDMI output. I have tried 3 different LCD/Plasma displays but to no avail. The computer shop which I bought the card from has also tried another card but it still has the same problem.
We have also tried Ati Catalyst 6.3 and 6.12 drivers but no luck.

The card works well with the Analogue video out but we need to get the HDMI. Any advise?

[Steve]

What kinds of signals are you putting out over HDMI? Generally it needs to be 720p/1080i for an HDMI display to accept it.