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Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Hopefully I won't offend any coffee drinkers too much with this...
I'm more of a tea drinker frankly, but I should be working from home a lot soon and one of the few things I will miss of the office will be the big coffee machine that does all the bean grinding etc and produces a rather nice Americano at the press of a button.
I have a cafetiere which I might fire up once a week or two as it's a bit of a faff for the brewing and cleaning.
I also have £70 in Amazon vouchers that I was going to put towards an SSD, but I was wondering if something like a Tassimo might be worth getting instead?
I would quite like a 1TB SSD, but let's face it I don't *need* one. So are these things any good, or should I stick to storage and a cafetiere? :D
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
If you hang around Amazon for long enough you can find decent bean-to-cup espresso machines for £180, notably the Delonghi ESAM 2600 or ESAM 2600 - both the same machine but the latter with brushed aluminium face bits. As an espresso maker, it doesn't quite make an Americano in a single button press, but there's a hot water spout on the machine, and I'm sure you have a kettle.
I bought the Delonghi ESAM 2600 from AO, where it's still £180, just over a month ago to replace a faulty 5 year old Delonghi EC850 (which uses ground coffee) and I have to say I'm very happy with it.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Well that's an option, the vouchers don't have an expiry on them apparently so I could wait.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
LOL,I used to be able to make a strong coffee and clean the cafetiere out daily within a few minutes whilst getting ready for work(switched to tea now). You do realise you also need to clean out the coffee machine too?? :p
If you don't drink coffee that much surely a ground coffee bag,disposable coffee filter thingy(the french ones) or some of that ground coffee/instant coffee blends would probably a quicker and easier way to make coffee on and off?? Everyone I know who has a proper machine drinks a few coffees a day. If you don't its actually a relatively expensive appliance taking up space in the kitchen doing nothing.
Edit!!
Maybe something like a Dolce Gusto,etc would make more sense for £30:
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/househ...-criteria.html
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/househ...23994-pdt.html
If you drink loads of coffee it does get expensive,but they are actually made for more on and off drinkers of the stuff,and you can get deals on the capsules,and stock up on them for a few months.
48 Americano capsules cost around £12 off Amazon as a guide.
So if you budgeted £150 for a coffee machine,you could get that reduced price Dolce Gusto machine and 480 servings of Coffee for the same price!
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
The ESAM 2600 is dead easy to clean. Every week or two, pull the brewing module out, take it to the sink, give it a rinse and a shake, done.
An advantage of such a machine is the ability to adjust the:
- Coffee grind
- Amount of ground coffee
- Brewing time
And of course, you have the entire worlds worth of coffee beans to choose from.
With a capsule machine, you get none of that. Which for some is an advantage I suppose.
Capsule machines brew approximately 8g of coffee per capsule, going by Cat's numbers, that's £31.25 per kilo of coffee or 25p/serving. Compare that to a bag of beans - £10 per kilo of coffee or 8p/serving.
Break even point between these two options is about 880 no. of 8g servings:
https://i.imgur.com/XgrnUD2.png
8g per serving is more-or-less a single espresso, or half a mug of americano.
Then there's the environmental impact of coffee pods...
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DDY
maths
He said he was an on and off drinker of coffee and mostly a tea drinker. If you drink one cup a day,that's over two years to break even. If its a few times a week,even longer.
You also do need to clean out other parts too,like the water reservoir,etc.
Plus his main excuse that a french press is not viable is because he needs to clean it. Most of us tend to have very limited time to get ready for work,and yet I still made my coffee in one,cleaned it,made lunch,and did all the other stuff reasonably quickly. My mate had a coffee machine - it took longer than the French Press....! Now they use one of the instant coffee/ground coffee blends half the time since its just quicker.
Coffee machines are also technically not that great for the environment too since its another appliance you need to build and they take up space,so its all a toss-up really. The more you use it the more sense it makes basically!
I like coffee but I wouldn't buy a coffee machine myself as its simply not economical,and I would rather have a seperate grinder so I can do more than coffee.
On top of this coffee bags,disposable single cup coffee filters,and ground coffee/instant coffee mixes are even cheaper if you don't drink that much coffee compared to some of those capsule machines,but I assume he wants a push button machine and the capsule ones are very quick.
Also by doing the maths,I realised its simply cheaper to just use a French press or stovetop steamer,and be done with it.
If you are a coffee connoisseur and drink it mainly it makes more sense though.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Cat, I don't think either of us knows what DwU means exactly by occasional or on and off, so I laid out a graph so that anyone can make a rational decision based on their own predicted usage.
I've got quite an arsenal of coffee making equipment to include:
Bean-to-cup espresso
Ground coffee espresso (automatic)
Tassimo
French press
Moka pot
Disposable filters
The taste of the coffee produced by the two automatic espresso machines are of course comparable, but they're quite distinct from the French press, moka pot and filter coffee.
I prefer the espresso based Americano over the equivalent drinks made by other methods by some margin, so my advice is not completely impartial, but I have a French press stashed in my locker at work which as with my espresso machine gets used every day. I bring the French press home every week for a good scrub in the sink, in addition to the rinse after every use.
The Tassimo I leave at my parents house which I use when I'm around.
In terms of cleaning, a capsule machine requires the same cleaning regime as a ground coffee machine or bean-to-cup machine. For me, I descale the machines every three months or so, this also serves to clean the res. and the nozzles, it's a 15 min job and all automatic machines, including the capsule machine have automated descaling programmes.
Based on my experience, I would say that a bean-to-cup machine requires less cleaning than a French press, and the same level of cleaning as a capsule machine.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
i'm more of a tea drinker too, but like a cappachino or latte or other fancy milky coffee, and i got a tassimo and unlike almost every other kitchen gadget, i'm still using it. i don't drink enough coffee to want all the fancy machines and bother with all the hassle, so sticking a pod or two in and pressing a button and having a drink ready in a minute, and being able to choose a load of different types was perfect for me. i use the kettle for tea and use teabags as it's much cheaper
of course the coffee is dearer, but you can sometimes get 3 for £10 or even better bulk deals on amazon, but you aren't paying a load of money for expensive machines. a decent tassimo is about £40ish and has all you need apart from the pods, and you can get them in tesco etc
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
How about an AeroPress? Small and easy to clean.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I'm a french press fan, but if that's too much faff then I think only a capsule type machine will be less. Of those, everyone I know has switched to nespresso, and I admit, with the right capsules (there's a stupid amount of choice) you can get an enjoyable coffee out of them. It's different from french press coffee, and different from real espresso again, but more like the latter. I don't like them from an environmental perspective, but again, occasional use might mitigate that a little.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
If you are going for a pod machine, and particularly if you prefer black coffee..just get a Nespresso. You can find one for about your £70, they are very quick and easy to use, and are the best out there for the pod based systems. I typically have an espresso every morning before work (and sometimes an americano/latte if time to drink it!) and it takes seconds with no washing up.
You can save a little by going for a Dolce Gusto - I used to have one - but the coffee isn't as good, there is less choice on type of coffee and its very much geared towards making sugary coffee based drinks. The Tassimo is even worse - easily the worst of the branded pod machines that is 100% focussed on sweet sugary milky drinks. Worst of all it just doesn't make good coffee...
Of course a french/press or moka pot is going to be even cheaper (and makes better coffee imo) but they are more effort for sure, and coffee does go off if you don't drink it often enough (hence B2C is important)
A "real" machine will always be better but every time I consider "upgrading" I am put off by the cleaning/maintenance/hassle when I can press a button and get a very acceptable espresso without any effort :)
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kalniel
I'm a french press fan, but if that's too much faff then I think only a capsule type machine will be less. Of those, everyone I know has switched to nespresso, and I admit, with the right capsules (there's a stupid amount of choice) you can get an enjoyable coffee out of them. It's different from french press coffee, and different from real espresso again, but more like the latter. I don't like them from an environmental perspective, but again, occasional use might mitigate that a little.
I thought there was a collection service where they are recycled?
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
peterb
I thought there was a collection service where they are recycled?
There is if you buy from their website - but its an exchange service so when they deliver your new pods, they will take away the old. Or you can take them to a nespresso shop. Some councils do offer drop offs at the local tip but its only a trial as I understand it.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
peterb
I thought there was a collection service where they are recycled?
Yes, but even recycling doesn't really mitigate the high energy cost of capsule production and extra bean miles.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Lots to think about there, and love the graph!
By occasional, I can see me doing 5 cups per week. But that's just me and I don't live in isolation, I can imagine my wife will use it but my son would probably use it more than me. So 10 cups per week is probably a conservative guess on usage. That puts the ESAM 2600 on a 2 year payback period before it becomes the cheap option, which isn't bad tbh.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Toruiwa-Cof...=coffee+funnel
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1001_.jpg
pour coffee in..place over cup...pour on water from kettle
drink coffee
remove grinds from funnel ... dishwash
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
if you want to use it for tea as well
you need one that sits IN the cup
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wetrys-Stai...70_&dpSrc=srch
I have two of these.. they rock and actually do coffee q well
and are cheap
and dishwash.
and rock
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
What about ESE pods? They're like Nespresso pods but made of a similar material to teabags, so recyclable. You can use them in a lot of normal Espresso machines, so you have the choice to do all the grinding etc if you want the faff, or just whack in an ESE pod if you don't. We get 50 ESE pods at a time for about £14.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spud1
A "real" machine will always be better but every time I consider "upgrading" I am put off by the cleaning/maintenance/hassle when I can press a button and get a very acceptable espresso without any effort :)
My manual espresso machine takes seconds to clean there's very little to it. You rinse the basket and wipe down the water outlet when you've finished making coffee and give the water tank a wipe out every week. If you empty your grounds straight into the bin that is literally the only maintenance.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Butcher
My manual espresso machine takes seconds to clean there's very little to it. You rinse the basket and wipe down the water outlet when you've finished making coffee and give the water tank a wipe out every week. If you empty your grounds straight into the bin that is literally the only maintenance.
Same as french press though (used grounds in compost, rinse flask), which OP said was too much faff.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I bought a Nespresso compatible late last year and though I'm not using it as much as I wanted for the quality of coffee it's a bargain. It's up there with Costa and the big chains really, the machine (as it wasn't an original and doesn't have a frother) was around £25, the pods are 3rd party too and work out about 14p each for pretty decent ones. Also it doesn't go off in 2-3 weeks like ground coffee.
However I was recently informed that Cafeteria coffee is superior so I tried it and - sure enough it's much better. I was shocked actually. Only thing is having
to have ground coffee in the fridge and cleaning, obviously. I have used it twice lol.
Just not drinking as much coffee as I thought I would. 2 cups a day is ideal btw.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I'm going to go leftfield on you.
Electric coffee percolator
In my experience percolators are much easier to clean than caffetieres, you get a more espresso-like coffee, and the electric ones seem dead easy to use. The link above isn't a specific recommendation, just an idea of what is available. They seem to come up to 12 cup, which is a good old size, but the 3 cup one should be perfect for a proper mug of coffee. And £35 would leave you money left over for a coffee grinder ;)
EDIT: just noticed they even have one with a programmable timer for £40 :o Espresso wake up call!
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I love drinking filtered coffee so I decided to get a DELONGHI ICM15210. It easy to operate and really makes great coffee.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DDY
I bought the Delonghi ESAM 2600 from AO, where it's still £180, just over a month ago to replace a faulty 5 year old Delonghi EC850 (which uses ground coffee) and I have to say I'm very happy with it.
Update: I have ordered one of these, from there :) Should turn up on Wednesday, so I had better get some coffee beans in.
Amazon were expensive enough that I am better off saving the vouchers for something else.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
My go-to source of roasted beans is Tesco's 1kg bag of espresso beans for £10 if the branded stuff isn't on offer, makes good Americanos.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Waitrose Essentials Mountain Blend is this weeks choice :)
£2.30 per bag. Course ground. Smells of chocoloate and ...er... coffee.
Smooth as
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Just to say thanks to everyone for helping me decide what to get. Very happy with the machine, the coffee is excellent and the cleanup/maintenance is pretty trivial. I'm sure left to my own devices I would have gotten something else and maybe that would have worked out OK, but am very happy with this one.
So far I have only tried the one type of beans available in the Co-Op near work. They won't last long at this rate though, so I have a bag of beans from Sainsburys on standby :D
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Shame the machine doesn't have a "cups made" counter, am about to start my third bag of coffee beans and would love to know.
I noticed when you buy the beans the bag says that once opened the beans should be used within 2 weeks. I figured I would ignore that and just store unused beans in the re-sealed bag in the fridge and they should be OK for a month or two, but in reality I haven't had a bag last 2 weeks yet so not an issue :D
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Occasional user, huh? :D
Just imagine the alternate reality.
https://www.honestcoffees.com/hcmain/media/10808.jpg
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DDY
Occasional user, huh? :D
Just imagine the alternate reality.
lol, that was a thought when buying. The problem is that I knew *I* would be an occasional user, but with three occasional users in the house it rather stacks up. Not sure my son is all that occasional either, judging by how the caramel syrup has been going down and he is the only one that uses it :D
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanceswithUnix
... I had better get some coffee beans in. ...
... Amazon were expensive enough that I am better off saving the vouchers for something else. ...
A bit late to the party, but how about https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lavazza-Qua...dp/B002PM23YC/ ;)
I currently get two bags a month through subscribe and save...
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
We used to use those in a previous job, and I'm sure I've seen them in one of the supermarkets.
Quite enjoying trying out different beans each time atm :)
The last beans were Taylors, a bit bitter for my taste. There is a Whittards shop in town with a big selection of beans so might try them next. I notice the packets tend to say to use within two weeks, which is about how long a small packet lasts so that works out well.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Yes, I know this is a bit of a necro, but ...
After a couple of years, how are you getting on, DwU?
Also, what are current views on Nespresso (Virtuo especially) versus B2C machines like that?
Just thinkin' .... about a self-present for Christmas.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Awesome, really glad I started the thread as I don't think the bean to cup machines would have been on my radar.
I thought I was being rather indulgent in getting a machine that I would use maybe a few times a week, but my son started using it straight away, then the wife, and now a couple of years on my daughter is old enough to start drinking coffee. It must be averaging at least 4 cups a day, and is easy enough to use that we stopped buying instant. There is enough pipework on the thing to look imposing to visitors, but really the thing is super easy to look after.
My dad bought one as well after trying ours :)
I come across pod machines occasionally, we even have one at work for use at trade shows when a potential customer visits a stand (or at least in The Before Times, clearly not with Covid around) but apart from the dubious ability to make hot chocolate I kind of don't see the point in pods these days.
My De'Longhi was on a rather good offer at about £180, but even such a basic model has been really good. Perhaps if I had a higher end model I would froth more milk, who knows :)
Edit: Re-reading my first post I wasn't wrong about working from home, but now the whole family is :D
Note that mine is the cheap Espresso maker that was on ao.com for £180 at the time, but there is a "size of coffee" dial which we just keep cranked most of the way up and it makes a mugs worth. I do find that to make quick coffee I put some milk in the mug first and then microwave for 30s so the coffee doesn't come out a bit cold when mixed with the otherwise fridge temperature milk.
Closest I can find on a quick look to what I ended up with is https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Ca...dp/B00LB8FHJ4/ but at the time ao.com were doing some decent offers.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saracen999
Yes, I know this is a bit of a necro, but ...
After a couple of years, how are you getting on, DwU?
Also, what are current views on Nespresso (Virtuo especially) versus B2C machines like that?
Just thinkin' .... about a self-present for Christmas.
Treat yourself to a B2C :p
I'm still on the french press as I just prefer what seems like a full range of flavour compared to espresso (and my chrimbo present is instead a burr grinder). If you go nespresso type then home-compostable pods are plentiful now from the likes of Eden Project and I've always found the coffee nicer than nespresso brand to boot, but enviro-cost for packaging/transport still far higher than going loose beans/ground.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Just firing in my machine as it is excellent, regularly on offer and easy to use!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Ma...8293023&sr=8-1
Just in case anyone is looking for a 'self-pressie' :) ....
EDIT: I should also say that I have had mine since 2012 with zero issues :)
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
See, already, what happens is what happens every flipping time I get tempted by this.
I start by thinking "Nespresso, maybe £80-ish."
Then someone points out a £250 B2C machine and I'm thinking "It's not that much more".
5 minutes after that, I'm looking at this and thinking "Extra features look nice".
Before I know it, I'll be looking for my bank manager's phone number for a loan to get some some flashy with lots of blinkenlightzandsh...stuff, and also numbers for a divorce lawyer and a bodyguard 'cos the wife said "No" while waiving my favourite genuine Chinese Chef cleaver about for emphasis.
I could get myself in really deep kimchee, very easily.
Slightly more serioysly, because I don't know enough about what I'm looking at, I do suffer from featureitis, not wanting to miss out, and probably either end up with something I need a PhD and years of training to 'drive', or that is way overkill. I don't know what I need, as opposed to whims, I mean, "fully automatic" sounds really good .... if expensive. But even then, I need one with a mind-reading function to get what I want, but don't know I want.
I'm a bit conflubjumacated.
And I end up doing nothing. Wait a year or two. And start over.
It's flippin' frustrating.
I need a good coffee.
Oh, bug.... erm, bother.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Haha. I was the same when I got this machine to be honest. In my mind it is the best 'middle' ground. There are some cheaper and some more expensive. But in terms of features etc, it is right in the middle and does pretty mcuh everything I need quite well with minimal fuss. I had initially set out to get a 'nespresso' type machine. But after some reading and hearing that getting my coffee ground at the point I wanted a coffee from fresh coffee beans (rather than preground or pods etc) was better, I researched a little further (mistake, as you have mentioned).
In the end, I had a coffee from both machines (from friends who had the De'longhi and another who had a nespresso type pod machine). A 'nespresso' type pod using the same coffee as a bag of fresh beans I bought. I had a coffee from both machines, noticed a massive difference (again, coffee is subjective, like wine!). This then led me to spend an extra £120 on the machine I mentioned above so that I could get my coffee from whole beans as fresh as possible. I didn't want to get a seperate grinder and a seperate milk forther. Having it all in one machine, saved space and made for a more bench friendly choice to appease the wife.
Looking back now, I made the right choice. The coffee is great and the machine is easy to operate. No fancy touch screens etc or baffling settings. Just a coffee beans grind nozzel. Coffee strength nozzel and water amount nozzel. The fact it has had zero issues in 8 years is great as it has made that initial £240 outlay a worthwhile investment (considering many electronic items die in short periods of time or require 'spares' which are extortionate).
I attach a review below and am happy to answer any questions on the machine I have. But I do feel your frustration. I go through the process you mentioned above with nearly everything. Cars, phones, speakers, headphones, washing machines!, tumble dryers!:
https://coffeeblog.co.uk/delonghi-ma...m-4200-review/
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neonplanet40
.... BUt I do feel your frustration. I go through the process you mentioned above with nearly everything. Cars, phones, speakers, headphones, washing machines!, tumble dryers!:
....[/url]
Tell me about it. Once, I strarted out indending to buy a used Jag for about £10k. My logic was that it's enough to get not a complete dog, but at a price point where people are buying something new, and getting rid of the old, but the market is depressed by lots of people that might buy the car won't because they can't afford the insurance.
Somehow, I ended up going from used Jag to brand new BMW M3 which was, well, a bit more than that. It involved thinking, well, if Jag then maybe Beemer. A 328i, maybe. A bit more and a few years old, but ...
So, visit showroom. Find suitable car, but on my way into see the salesman, I walked past an M3. I'd never driven one. So, I said to the salesman, after a 328 but, erm, how about a test in that, pointing at it, first?
Well, and hour and a half later and still wearing a huge grin, I was buying a new M3. Not a £10k used Jag.
The wife was well impressed .... but I'd hidden the cleaver. ;)
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neonplanet40
)....
I attach a review below and am happy to answer any questions on the machine I have....
Okay, so taking you up on that kind offer ....
I've productively used the last few hours since my previous post avidly reading CoffeeBlog.
Thanks for that link. I think. :D
So .... grinders.
As predicted, I'm now thinking I need a half-decent grinder. The Sage one looks tempting, and I really like flashy screens, etc. Plus, I have really fine, accurate and wide-ranging control over grind size, dose strngth, grind time, etc. Of course, I have no (well, that's overstating it a bit, but is good for effect) why I need all that control, but having read the reviews, surely I do. ;)
Don't I?
And it's a bargain (apparently) at £200.
So .... bearing in mind I started out looking at a Nespresso machine that would, you know, actually make my coffee at half that amount .... why would I need a grinder, no matter how fancy a gizmo it is, when a B2C machine does, well .... bean, not ground coffee, to cup.
I mean, doesn't B2C imply it grinds in the machine? And presumably, to your satisfaction?
My guess is that if I want to use various brewing methods, be it french press, Aerothingy, filter, etc, then I need a grinder.
If I want espresso, then an espresso B2C machine will, to a good level of taste satisfaction, do an espresso grind, and no grinder necessary?
Secondly, I presume that De'Longhi machine is suitable for making anything espresso-based, like the Americano or even Capucchino which are my most likely drinks?
Thirdly, any commonly desirable variations it won't do?
And yes, I'm aware these are numpty-level questions but if I'm upping the budget three-fold, and short of an M3, I mean sample machine, to test drive, I want to be sure I'm not over-complicating getting a decent cuppa over that Nespresso.
Oh, and usage? For me? On average, two or three cups a day. The wife seems content with instant but, if I get one, who knows?
Oh, and TIA.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I've got a B2C machine, but I still use a burr grinder to feed a cafetiere and a moka pot, depending on my mood. The B2C is just too quick and easy, and the coffee is great, so that gets 95% of the use between the three options.
My B2C machine, the £180 ESAM 2600 - I think the cheapest Delonghi B2C, has a mechanic knob under the coffee bean hopper door that controls the space between the ginding elements, which in turn determins the fineness of the grind.
There's a combination of button presses which sets the temperature - pick a temp, set it, and leave it.
There's a knob on the front which sets how much ground coffee I want in the brew.
Another knob on the front controls how much water gets pushed through the brew - I don't know the exact terminology, I keep mine low to get a standard espresso shot. There's a button to dispense a single shot, and another button to dispense a double shot.
I've got all the knobs dialled in for the espresso I like, marked with a permenant marker just in case the knobs get bumped. It's pretty much a case of pressing the one button to deliver 'an espresso'.
Then, add hot water for an americano. Or, take 1/3 mug of of cold milk to the steamer hanging off the side of the B2C machine, pour the steamed milk in with the espresso, boom - cappuccino.
There are nicer machines which automate the milk steaming. I'd like one of those.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saracen999
Okay, so taking you up on that kind offer ....
I've productively used the last few hours since my previous post avidly reading CoffeeBlog.
Thanks for that link. I think. :D
So .... grinders.
As predicted, I'm now thinking I need a half-decent grinder. The Sage one looks tempting, and I really like flashy screens, etc. Plus, I have really fine, accurate and wide-ranging control over grind size, dose strngth, grind time, etc. Of course, I have no (well, that's overstating it a bit, but is good for effect) why I need all that control, but having read the reviews, surely I do. ;)
Don't I?
And it's a bargain (apparently) at £200.
So .... bearing in mind I started out looking at a Nespresso machine that would, you know, actually make my coffee at half that amount .... why would I need a grinder, no matter how fancy a gizmo it is, when a B2C machine does, well .... bean, not ground coffee, to cup.
I mean, doesn't B2C imply it grinds in the machine? And presumably, to your satisfaction?
My guess is that if I want to use various brewing methods, be it french press, Aerothingy, filter, etc, then I need a grinder.
If I want espresso, then an espresso B2C machine will, to a good level of taste satisfaction, do an espresso grind, and no grinder necessary?
Secondly, I presume that De'Longhi machine is suitable for making anything espresso-based, like the Americano or even Capucchino which are my most likely drinks?
Thirdly, any commonly desirable variations it won't do?
And yes, I'm aware these are numpty-level questions but if I'm upping the budget three-fold, and short of an M3, I mean sample machine, to test drive, I want to be sure I'm not over-complicating getting a decent cuppa over that Nespresso.
Oh, and usage? For me? On average, two or three cups a day. The wife seems content with instant but, if I get one, who knows?
Oh, and TIA.
It's been a hectic few days!
I shall try my best to answer your questions.
"As predicted, I'm now thinking I need a half-decent grinder. The Sage one looks tempting, and I really like flashy screens, etc. Plus, I have really fine, accurate and wide-ranging control over grind size, dose strength, grind time, etc. Of course, I have no (well, that's overstating it a bit, but is good for effect) why I need all that control, but having read the reviews, surely I do.
Don't I?"
I don't think you need all that control to be honest. As with most things, everything can get super complicated and convoluted for little extra benefit.
"So .... bearing in mind I started out looking at a Nespresso machine that would, you know, actually make my coffee at half that amount .... why would I need a grinder, no matter how fancy a gizmo it is, when a B2C machine does, well .... bean, not ground coffee, to cup.
I mean, doesn't B2C imply it grinds in the machine? And presumably, to your satisfaction?"
The B2C machine I linked you to also takes ground coffee (in the middle compartment). I always use whole beans myself. But the feature is there for ground coffee should you want to use it.
But as you say, the B2C negates the use of a grinder because it grinds the beans for you internally. In my mind, it does this to my satisfaction. You can vary the grind - finer grind or courser grind using a knob to adjust accordingly,. Trial and error allows you to adjsut to your liking. Mind sits around 3 (I think goes from 1 (fine ) to 7 or so (course).
"My guess is that if I want to use various brewing methods, be it french press, Aerothingy, filter, etc, then I need a grinder."
Yes, I would say so. It would come down to what kind of coffee you want and then going from there. For me, my favourites are latte and cappuccino. The B2C works for my needs with little fuss or mess.
"If I want espresso, then an espresso B2C machine will, to a good level of taste satisfaction, do an espresso grind, and no grinder necessary?"
Yup!
"Secondly, I presume that De'Longhi machine is suitable for making anything espresso-based, like the Americano or even Capucchino which are my most likely drinks?" -
Yes. The milk frother allows you to heat up a reasonable sized jug of milk for a big cup of latte or cappuccino. Americano can work by adjusting the water amount using knob on front (there only are 3 - 1 for water amount, 2 for coffee strength (how many beans it uses etc) and 3rd is for the steamer for milk). I have latte the most so I go for 1/3 coffee and 2/3 milk. Sometimes 50/50.
"Thirdly, any commonly desirable variations it won't do?"
I'm not too sure to be honest. It can do mocha (because you can just do a shot of coffee, add some choc powder and then steam some milk). It does americano type, latte, cappuccino. What other kinds of coffee are there (these are the only ones I am aware off haha)? The only thing they say not to do is do NOT use is flavored beans and oily beans as they can ruin your internal grinder.
I know that this can get very complicated and expensive. I have no doubt that a separate grinder and a £1000 semi-pro machine will make a better coffee than my B2C. BUT, I was after a price/performance ratio. In my mind, the B2C I have is the best in that range for a really good coffee (in my view - when compared to professional cafes etc) and ease of use. Using this machine to make a latte takes maybe 3 or so minutes? I don't want to spend 10-15 minutes making a coffee. Life is too short ;)
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Good answers, neon. Thanks.
I've carried on reading, watching (YouTube have seen more of me on coffee videos in the last week than on everyting else put together, all year.
I've reached some conclusions.
I need to decide two things .... okay, three. But the third probably overrides the first two.
1) How good do I want my coffee to be, for whatever my absolute maximum budget may be.
2) How much time am I willing to put in, both a) learning, and b) making a coffee?
3) While I have no doubt at all that pro machines, and grinders, are capable of producing a better result, are my taste buds good enough to tell the difference, and appreciate it?
If the answer to 3) is no, then the first two become kinda academic.
Question 1) is really about .... am I prepared to spend a very large amount of time really learning about coffee? Am I taking up a hobby, or do I just want a good cuppa? Truthfully, had I done this several decadesback. t would have been "hell, yeah, hobby" but these days, nope. Life's too short.
That rules out "Barista" grade machines. Andmaybe fancy grinders too. By the way, the "why" of grinders is to fine control the grinding size to suit bth the bean, and the intended brewing methods. Machines like yours aren't (apparently) capable of getting the very best out of thev beans, that high end machines, used properly, are capable of getting from good beans expertly ground. The question is, do they get close enough? For my purposes, undoubtedly.
The crunch point, really. is that even if my taste buds are good enough(about which I'm sceptical) Q2 nails it. Am I prepared to invest that much time in learning to extract the best? Because if I buy the type of machine that could, it is also capable of giving far inferior results if I drive it incorrectly. Which is apparently very easy to do. Get it wrong, I mean.
Oh, and you can still potentially improve on your results with a really good grinder, but you do need to get the grind just right, and pre-grind just enough coffee for your needs 'cos, once ground, it loses flavour pretty quickly. That much I leaned about 40 years ago.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
So are you any closer in finding a suitable device for your needs? :P
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neonplanet40
So are you any closer in finding a suitable device for your needs? :P
Oh, yeah.
It usually lasts about 10 minutes. I know what I want. It just costs about 4 or 5 times what I want to pay. Now, I could just figure, WTF, and get one. Then, I decide that it's a choice of that, or a machine like yours, and about £1750 on a gaming PC. What do I want more, a good machine capable of good coffee, and a new gaming PC, or a very good machine capable of better (but how much better) coffee. Which is about the point I decide to give up coffee completely.
Except, y'know, about £80 on a Nespresso machine. Or maybe a £250 filter machine. But that really good £600 Nespresso machine might be a compromise. Plus, a grinder and make my own refillable pods.
But if I'm at £900 for a fancy Nespresso and grinder, just go the whole hog and get the £1600-£2000 machine I had my eye on 10 minutes ago.
And repeat.
Someone please shoot me now. Take mercy. Get it over with.
I mean (corny old joke alert) I used to think I was indecisive, but now I know I am. Aren't I?
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Oh, and will I play enough games to justify a new PC?
But if I do, I know I'll need good coffee with it. Yep, off again ....
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I'll probably end up with the fancy machine, and the PC.
But when the wife finds out what it cost, well, .... just shoot me now. Save her the effort.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
From a few years of fiddling with a variety of ways of making coffee, if I was starting from scratch it would be a Niche grinder to cover all the grinding needs. Its designed to have as near to zero retention as possible, the concept was to make the best home grinder that's not insanely expensive. It uses the same burrs found in expensive commercial machines, but is designed or single dosing.
For filter I really wouldn't bother with a machine, just get a good pouring kettle and a V60 or Clever Dripper. I have a MoccaMaster and wouldn't pay the the new price for it, but worth the £75 I picked it up for.
Expresso and variations of, difficult one. If I was working at home I could probably justify a Sage Dual Boiler. With my current work setup which involves leaving the home early, so no noisy coffee making kit, I have settled on an old Gaggia Classic with a self installed PID temperature controller. Cost me about £200 to get the machine and do a DIY service and install the PID controller. Also a few other cheap mods. Only external things to add are milk jug, temptags, and scales.
A set of scales are really important in learning how to make most types of coffee, with scales you can weigh the coffee / water and then time the extraction.
Just noticed the Sage B2C Barrister Express was on sale earlier on amazon (£399), might be worth seeing if that drops down in price again.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OwP
From a few years of fiddling with a variety of ways of making coffee, if I was starting from scratch it would be a Niche grinder to cover all the grinding needs. Its designed to have as near to zero retention as possible, the concept was to make the best home grinder that's not insanely expensive. It uses the same burrs found in expensive commercial machines, but is designed or single dosing.
For filter I really wouldn't bother with a machine, just get a good pouring kettle and a V60 or Clever Dripper. I have a MoccaMaster and wouldn't pay the the new price for it, but worth the £75 I picked it up for.
Expresso and variations of, difficult one. If I was working at home I could probably justify a Sage Dual Boiler. With my current work setup which involves leaving the home early, so no noisy coffee making kit, I have settled on an old Gaggia Classic with a self installed PID temperature controller. Cost me about £200 to get the machine and do a DIY service and install the PID controller. Also a few other cheap mods. Only external things to add are milk jug, temptags, and scales.
A set of scales are really important in learning how to make most types of coffee, with scales you can weigh the coffee / water and then time the extraction.
Just noticed the Sage B2C Barrister Express was on sale earlier on amazon (£399), might be worth seeing if that drops down in price again.
All Good points. My situation is a bit different though .... and I assume you're replying to my recent hijack of this thread, the original one being almost three years ago.
Oh, and yeah, it's really espresso-based drinks I'm after, primarily Americano and Cappuccino, though sometimes Latte and even the odd Mocha, or weird recipes.
On that assumption, I'm effectively retired, and some health problems give me some mobility issues. The wife works from home and says she's not bothered, "instant will do", but she generally really enjoys "proper" coffee when we get one out, somewhere (though neither of us are Costa fans).
The machine I'm currently trying to convince myself not to indulge in is a step up from the Sage Dual Boiler, with a LOT of extra ease of use. It still has the dual boilers, still has accurate PID control but is pretty heavily automated. Kinda.
There is a decent (not top end but it appears good enough) burr grinder built in. You can set it for about 18g of grounds though factory default is a bit higher. But it grinds and tamps into a puck for you. Minimal effort suits me.
The manual bit is to move the portafilter from grinder to head myself, and empty grounds out afterwards. That removes one of the trickiest bits to automate. Makes cleaning pretty easy, too.
But everything else, pretty much, is automated. You can fine tune and adjust, but everything down to milk temp, and frothing for cappuccino to latte, is automated. You can, of course, tweak defaults. Want an Americano (which I usually do), you select Americano as the type and it adds the relevant hot water, After doing the double-espresso rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish. You can also add your own custom 'recipes', with non-standard defaults.
The idea is to get most of the quality of Barista machine coffee, with far less effort, or even knowledge. Though, the more you learn, the more you can tweak.
In other words, little sacrifice in quality, maximum increase in convenience and ease of use, but it comes at a steep price. Yeah, I could look second-hand, but then your taking a gamble on some numpty having mangled a pricey piece of kit. And yeah, I could buy all sorts of other kit and start modding, but like I said, restricted mobility. I don't want the hassle of second-hand, let alone nodding PUD's etc. Years ago, yeah, sure. Now, no.
I know what appeals to me. Well, between two models, one less automated that the other (and about £400 cheaper). What doesn't appeal is the price but hell, I can't take it with me. :D
This thread has been useful, though. It's pointed me in several directions, focussed my thinking and really it comes down to .... am I prepared to spend that much?
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
old thread...
i drink mainly tea and growing up the only coffee we had was instant. i got a filter coffee thing and a stovetop thing and they were much better but for one person it was a lot of hassle so i eventually got a tassimo which is great, especially as i like cappachinos and lattes and stuff. it's not that cheap for the pods but not drinking many it's not that bad
but with the lockdown and working from home i found myself drinking a lot of coffee, and whilst i had a huge stash of pods pre lockdown due to the amazon offers meaning you get about 80 pods at a time, i quickly got through them with 3 or 4 cups a day. i had been thinking about nespresso for a while and got a machine for £50 which had an offer that basically worked out that for a £10 spend i got about 225 pods "free" with a voucher scheme, and there's loads of offers on those pods and loads of "own brand" compatible versions. i usually get the starbucks house brand pods for £2.50 for 10 in a deal. i have a load of different types so i don't get stuck with the same taste and get over used to it. nespresso don't do milk pods so it's just coffee but i think the coffee is better than the tassimo, so i got a milk heater frother thing for £18 the other week and that lets me do the fancy stuff. i even got some glass mugs to show off the froth so it looks like cafe stuff
i did see a bargain "proper" coffee machine thing on amazon, like a £400 machine for £80 that looked the business and did everything, but the video showing it off was about 15 minutes long. i want to make a coffee in a minute not take half an hour and spend an hour cleaning up afterwards. this thing heated the mugs, ground the beans, did the milk heating and frothing, but was just over complicated for me. probably made great coffee, but the tassimo and nespresso tastes fine to me and is quick and easy without making much mess. i'm not afficinado of coffee. it's nice to have both machines as they are quite different in the types of drinks they make, but nespresso is the main one for now
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I keep considering getting a Nespresso for work, have had one in the past (small capsule version) and liked it a lot. But back then you were locked into Nespresso capsules, since then the patent has been nullified and "surprisingly" Nespresso changed to the new capsule design. I currently use a clever dripper at work and grind at home.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I'm watching this thread with interest as I'm genuinely not sure where it will end. Could be anything from a £10 French press and a grinder up to buying a branch of Starbucks.
That said, I've been there. Not with coffee but I've certainly done copious research into something to discover there are more options (and thus less certainty over which is best for me,) than I imagined.
It has a name, option paralysis.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
... as I'm genuinely not sure where it will end.
Me neither, pal. Me, neither.
Hmmm.
Starbucks???
Hadn't thought of that.
BRB. ;)
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OwP
.... I currently use a clever dripper at work ....
Sage?
Or capital C Clever? The little plastic thingy? If the latter, never used one but I hear pretty good things for a quick and easy method provided you get th grind right. Or, Hario Switch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OwP
.... and grind at home.
At risk of TMI there.
Oh, coffee. Silly me. :embarrassed: :D
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saracen999
Sage?
Oh, coffee. Silly me. :embarrassed: :D
That too ;)
Clever dripper is a simple filter holder with a vale in the bottle that opens when you put on top of a cup. So you can use it as an emersion brewer (French press / Aeropress) or as a filter brewer. Think I have most of the filter brewer methods covered including Chemex and Aeropress, but have settled on the Clever Dripper.
I do have an itch to scratch which is syphon / vacuum, havent tried one yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3pVahLZgAM
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I was aware of a "Clever" but it doesn't look quite like that. More like a conical filter with a valve in the bottom. Variation of the same principle, perhaps?
I've never tried the Chemex, but it looks interesting, if old school. Very old.
Not really what I'm after, though, which is very simple, very easy espresso-based drinks, minimum fuss, minimum (but not no) expertise. Don't mind a bit of initial setup for a specific bean, and I know even on the very smart machines, I still have to get to work out (and/or adjust for) factory variations, like dose from a supposedly fixed dose grinder, and that having got what I want as dose, I still need to get the grind size right for a given bean, to avoid under/over-extraction.
But, once I get my head around the machine's quirks, I should be able to zero in on roughly what to expect for certain roasts, and fine-tune quickly and easily.
In other words, I don't mind some work and sorting out, but am not looking to be a home barista every time I want a cuppa.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saracen999
In other words, I don't mind some work and sorting out, but am not looking to be a home barista every time I want a cuppa.
We have a more expensive DeLonghi B2C machine at the office than my cheap (now discontinued) £180 one at home, where I believe the grinder is supposed to be a part of the increased cost (and the integrated water filter which when I fill from a filter jug seems pointless).
Honestly, I don't think I can taste any difference, I'm really happy with my cheaper one. I suspect you have to be *really* into your coffee to need that top of the range grinder built in, in which case you will know that you need it.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanceswithUnix
We have a more expensive DeLonghi B2C machine at the office than my cheap (now discontinued) £180 one at home, where I believe the grinder is supposed to be a part of the increased cost (and the integrated water filter which when I fill from a filter jug seems pointless).
Honestly, I don't think I can taste any difference, I'm really happy with my cheaper one. I suspect you have to be *really* into your coffee to need that top of the range grinder built in, in which case you will know that you need it.
I hear you, but I'd point out a couple of things. First, the grinder is probably better described as "good enough", but certainly isn't top end. Grinders can get very expensive indeed.
Secondly, on the machine I'm looking at, it's not just a grinder. You stick the portafilter into the grinder output, and what you get is ground, distributed, suitably tamped ready to go directly into the brewing head. Getting that distribution, and tamping pressure, right is central to getting a high quality output, consistently. You then stik the portafilter under the head and brew.
If you know what you're doing, you can do a lot of this manually but getting it all right, nearly all the time, automatically, saves both coffee and, more importantly (to me) time, and hassle. And that logic applies pretty much to the whole process, right down to getting the right milk foam for cappuccino, or latte art, or even just a straight Americano. Most common coffee types have saved presets with grind settings, brew time, brew temp, milk temp, foam type and so on, but you can override the standards, or create (and save) your own custom recipes.
Once you do, and assuming you've tuned correctly for your beans, it's pretty much a case of sticking portafilter under grinder and starting, then moving it to brew head and starting, while meanwhile, the foamer is heating and foaming the milk to that recipe's needs, automatically. It's actually, in usage terms, nt much harder than sticking instant in a mug, pouring water from a kettle, and adding milk. You just end up with espresso-based coffee, not instant, very easily and pretty consistently. You do need some knowledge to tweak for bean variances, etc, but it's a lot less effort than typical B2C (according to a variety of experts, like James Hoffman) and less mess too. It's aimed at getting closer to "proper" espresso, for people that don't want an extra hobby.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saracen999
I hear you, but I'd point out a couple of things. First, the grinder is probably better described as "good enough", but certainly isn't top end. Grinders can get very expensive indeed.
Secondly, on the machine I'm looking at, it's not just a grinder. You stick the portafilter into the grinder output, and what you get is ground, distributed, suitably tamped ready to go directly into the brewing head. Getting that distribution, and tamping pressure, right is central to getting a high quality output, consistently. You then stik the portafilter under the head and brew.
OK, you seem to be really getting into this which is a leap beyond where I went. I think just jumping both wellies first into buying the on sale bean to cup machine as I did short circuited all that for me. I have learnt far more about coffee than I did before, but for me the people who made my machine understand the finer points so I don't have to.
A £250 B2C machine will burr grind coffee, tamp it and brew it in a very consistent manner. Automatic milk frothing sounds really nice, but I need convincing that the cleaning of something that has had milk in it is worth the effort vs just quickly making a white coffee and walking away from the machine.
If you can afford it, then it sounds like you are looking at one heck of a nice toy, and maybe that will give you a grin every time you use it. Much though I like my toys, I think in this case I am a bit more utilitarian. The 80/20 rule seems to apply well here, you are getting 80% of the result for 20% of the outlay. For everyday coffee making the cheap machine is awesome. It usually gets to make simple white & black coffees, occasionally an espresso so I can make Irish coffee. It looks smart and doesn't take up too much kitchen space.
Edit: OFC if you want time saved, I would say get the cheap B2C machine and spend some of the savings on a Roomba. I got a cheap one on Black Friday sales and wish I had got one years ago. Which leads me to an interesting thought: When the B2C machine dies as these things all eventually do, would I get a more expensive one? Maybe, if the money was not an issue, but I suspect like now there are more important things I would spend it on. When the Roomba dies, I expect I will get a higher end model. The cheap one does an decent job, but it doesn't build an internal map so it can't find its way back from the kitchen if it is there when it gets low on charge.
Hopefully that hasn't convinced you to buy a £1500 PC, £1600 coffee machine and now a £900 vacuum cleaner on top ;) :D
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanceswithUnix
OK, you seem to be really getting into this which is a leap beyond where I went. I think just jumping both wellies first into buying the on sale bean to cup machine as I did short circuited all that for me. I have learnt far more about coffee than I did before, but for me the people who made my machine understand the finer points so I don't have to.
A £250 B2C machine will burr grind coffee, tamp it and brew it in a very consistent manner. Automatic milk frothing sounds really nice, but I need convincing that the cleaning of something that has had milk in it is worth the effort vs just quickly making a white coffee and walking away from the machine.
If you can afford it, then it sounds like you are looking at one heck of a nice toy, and maybe that will give you a grin every time you use it. Much though I like my toys, I think in this case I am a bit more utilitarian. The 80/20 rule seems to apply well here, you are getting 80% of the result for 20% of the outlay. For everyday coffee making the cheap machine is awesome. It usually gets to make simple white & black coffees, occasionally an espresso so I can make Irish coffee. It looks smart and doesn't take up too much kitchen space.
Again, I hear you. I regard the £250 price point as not-insignificantly expensive, but at 8x that, it is very significantly more considered. That's what, so far, is stopping me and might yet derail the idea. I'm having trouble getting past that.
I hear you on the milk and cleaning issue, too. First concern? Bacterial build-up. Second concern, fats build up, blocking things.
But .... cleaning. Keep a cloth near the machine. I mean, who doesn't with any espresso machine, if you don't want drips, splashes, coffee grinds, etc, everywhere. So, having frothed, wipe the steam wand Take about 5 seconds. Then, as you push it back down into standly mode, it auto-purges 5 or 6 bursts of steam through the want into the drip tray. You you give it that level of cleaning every use. There is then a cleaning regime for the machine itself, from (depending on use) a quick daily wipe with a cloth, to a more intensive routine maintenance, including backflushing through the group head, cleaning crap out of the grinder and cleaning the burrs etc, descaling the watery bits and, yeah, taking the steam wand tip off and rinsing. But then, and grinder needs cleaning, and any B2C machine requires similar, and most, more because this machine uses the human to transer grinds in, and spnt coffee out, not a machanism. Want latte or cappuccino? There's going to be a frother involved somewhere, and it's going to need cleaning or .... bacteria, fats build-up, etc. It's unavoidable, IMHO, and part of what espresso machines involve.
Agreed on 80/20 too. I have the same utilitarian concerns. This undoubtedly is an indulgence. Itr's an out and out luxury, and I still can't qiite believe I'm seriously considering it. Fact is, I can afford it, but, it's still a chunky sum and whie I can afford it, it's an expensive toy for making coffee. Two grand is not an impulse buy. £250? Maybe. Hence, trying to research the beggary outof it before buying. I certainly understand far, FAR more about coffee, and various brewing processes, than I did before I started, and "over-extraction" (or under), "channelling", etc no longer produce a "huh?" response.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saracen999
But .... cleaning. Keep a cloth near the machine. I mean, who doesn't with any espresso machine, if you don't want drips, splashes, coffee grinds, etc, everywhere. So, having frothed, wipe the steam wand Take about 5 seconds. Then, as you push it back down into standly mode, it auto-purges 5 or 6 bursts of steam through the want into the drip tray. You you give it that level of cleaning every use. There is then a cleaning regime for the machine itself, from (depending on use) a quick daily wife with a cloth, to a more inensive routine maintenance, including backflushing through the group head, cleaning crap out of the grinder and cleaning the burrs etc, descaling the watery bits and, yeah, taking the steam wand tip off and rinsing. But then, and grinder needs cleaning, and any B2C machine requires similar, and most, more because this machine uses the human to transer grinds in, and spnt coffee out, not a machanism. Want latte or cappuccino? There's going to be a frother involved somewhere, and it's going to need cleaning or .... bacteria, fats build-up, etc. It's unavoidable, IMHO, and part of what espresso machines involve.
TBH the machine gets minimal cleaning. If I use the frother, then that needs cleaning straight after, but I seldom use that. Every two or three days the machine asks to have its drip tray and grinds bin emptied, so they get a rinse out and wipe. Maybe once a month I take out the core part of the machine to back flush it because you are supposed to, but it always looks pretty clean when I take it out so I guess the machine self rinse is pretty effective. One of the things I am very happy with is the lack of overall faff per coffee.
The bin with the disks of spent compressed coffee are ideal conditions for growing mold, some care is needed there that they don't get left if you are going out for a few days. Not that anyone gets to go anywhere these days.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saracen999
(depending on use) a quick daily wife
I should be so lucky...
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Oops. Bit of a typo. WiPe, obv.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Nearly made up my mind back there, and committed.
Nearly. Very nearly, actually.
But I can't quite help but feel that either, I'm going to detect a sour taste in every cuppa, knowing what the damn machine cost, OR .... I'm going to end up really getting into the home barista mindset and wishing I'd gone fully manual. Argh.
Anyone recommend a good .... psychiatrist?
So, I decide, spherical objects to it, buy a Nespresso. But, there's a HUGE range of the damn things? Classic or Virtuo? And what's the difference? So, in finding out about them, I end up finding out about their Aero thingy, too. And, it kinda grates every time I see manufacturer videos describing them as "espresso", though to be fair, some presenters do say espresso style, which is fair enough. But, while they may (opinions vary) produce decent coffee, espresso they aren't.
Then again, discussions above about V60, Aeropress, Clever Dripper, Chemex and many more are all capable of pretty good coffee, very good indeed, but they aren't espresso euther so if I'm to consider Nespresso again, I really need to question exactly what it is I'm trying to do? If it's just a good cup of coffee at home, then a half-decent but non-espresso grinder, and a good coffee filter machine, plus a Cemex/Clever, etc, will do it. And be a hell of a lot cheaper.
But if I speifically want espresso, and espresso-based drinks be it my standard Americano, or a latte, cappuccino, or, hell, afrogatto for a change, then I'm back at B2C machines like the 2800's mentioned above .... of which the closest variant seems to be the 4200. But that De-Longhi Elette then starts calling, and is about £500, and will give a decent cappuccino, etc, at a couple of button presses. Somecleaning and maintenance, for sure, but so does anything.
Trouble is, it's then close to the cost of a entry-level "okay" barista-class espresso machine and a modest espresso grinder.
If nobody's going to, as previously requested, put me out of my misery, will somebody kindly shoot that damn groundhog instead, 'cos I'm getting very, very dizzy, going round and around like this.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Given the title of your post "a coffee machine for an occasional user", I can recommend a Krupps B2C, I've had my EA8150 for almost three years and it makes a nice coffee depending on your choice of bean.
If you are thinking of Nespresso then you are probably aware that Vertuo machines tie you into buying expensive pods directly from Nespresso until their patent expires 2023, all reports are it makes a nice coffee though. However the the older Nespresso machines use the aluminium style capsules and other options are available from the likes of L'Or and Starbucks.
just something to ponder
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
DRM for coffee. I've seen it all now.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lee_evo
Given the title of your post "a coffee machine for an occasional user", I can recommend a Krupps B2C, I've had my EA8150 for almost three years and it makes a nice coffee depending on your choice of bean.
If you are thinking of Nespresso then you are probably aware that Vertuo machines tie you into buying expensive pods directly from Nespresso until their patent expires 2023, all reports are it makes a nice coffee though. However the the older Nespresso machines use the aluminium style capsules and other options are available from the likes of L'Or and Starbucks.
just something to ponder
'm not actually the thread starter. That was DanceswithUnix, about 3 years ago. I just kinda hijacked it.
Problem is, I started out looking for a relatively low-use machine, but the more I looked, the more I got (am getting) tempted.
I've not looked at that machine. Realistically, there are so many and a lot are very good. Some aren't, though. But I will check it out. My first ever coffee "grinder" was Krups. Bought it in about 1976, but to grind for a filter machine rather than espresso. It still works today, though I use it for certain hard spices, not coffee. But that it still works, some 45 years later, is a testament to Krups quality. Or at least, what it was then.
I don't know if it still is. But it has been, ahem, grinding away for 45 years.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I would draw your attention back to https://forums.hexus.net/kitchen-coo...ml#post3929555
where the nice graph says that with enough coffee drunk the B2C is the cheap option. I'm way into the cost savings according to that.
I would also like to point out that while you have been procrastinating over what to buy, I have had about 20 rather delightful cups of coffee that I have been very pleased with ;) I could get way more technical with my machine than I do. Kind of like most modern cameras have a host of manual features that the user never touches, but should the fancy take you there is some playing to be had.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spacein_vader
DRM for coffee. I've seen it all now.
I have got into a bit of a pickle, haven't I?
I honestly wish I'd never seen anything about that high-end (domestic) Sage. I would probably have bought something like the popularly recommended De-Longhi's, and been happy. But I did. And can't unsee it. I just know whatever I do, I'm going to end up withing I'd done something else.
I mean, I can't tell you what the last few days have been like. How many reviews I've read, how many how-to video's I've watched. Not just machines, either. Oh, no. Grinders, scales, sieves, drippers, mocka pots, and even, just once, sipping spoons. Yup, flipping tasting spoons.
Come on, guys, stop laughing. This is serious.
Isn't it?
:D
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanceswithUnix
....
I would also like to point out that while you have been procrastinating over what to buy, I have had about 20 rather delightful cups of coffee that I have been very pleased with ;) ....
Oh, that's totally kicking a bloke while he's down.
Fair point, but .... ;)
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I'm not trying to confuse you but here are a couple of decent machines at a respectable £299 price point.
https://www.ecookshop.co.uk/ecooksho...sp?pid=6708771
https://www.atlanticelectrics.co.uk/...i303203rw.html
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saracen999
Yup, flipping tasting spoons.
Thanks, that gave me a really good laugh :D
You said you didn't want it turning into a hobby; no mention of turning into an obsession though!
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lee_evo
Oh, believe me, Lee, I don't need help in confusing myself. As this thread shows only to well, I'm pretty expert at confusing myself, all by myself. I'm even confusing myself a bit with this paragraph.
At this point, I'm grateful for any and all attempts at unconfusing me. You've got your work cut out though.
One thing though. I'm not really budget-conscious. That sounds wrong. What I want, I think, is the best blend (excuse pun) of several things, but they're kind-of contra-indicators.
- I don't want "a new hobby", which is what a home barista will be. But I am enjoying getting into more and more detail. I find myself interested in problems, and wanting to get to know how to understand/solve them.
- I don't mind spending quite a bit, but I definitely want to feel, afterwards, that it was worth it. It's more about getting the right solution. The problem is, nailing down exactly what "right" is?
- I am not looking to spend lots for the hell of it. 'Find the most expensive solution and get that' is so not me. But nor is buying to cheap, and regretting it.
That is to say, I don't want buyers remorse for spending too much, but nor do I want it for not spending enough. Put it this way. There are several 'kitchen appliance' threads where I've said "buy cheap, buy often. Buy right, buy once". For instance, blenders. After going through several, over the years, and having them deteriorate, or plain pack up, I went for a Vitamix at the best part of £500. It's expensive, but built like the proverbial brick outhouse. I rather expect it to become a family heirllom, passed down through the generations. Okay, a bit hyperbolic maybe, but you get the point. Much the same applies to food rocessor, and for that matter, food mixer. Despite the overlap between those three, I opted for all three, to get good, solid and hopefully reliable optimum tools for the job. Or at least, within reason.
So ... if I can get past the suspicion that I'll regret £2k on that Sage Oracle Touch, then so be it.
But, if I end up deciding that a couple of hundred quid on a good grinder, then a Chemex, Clever or V60 manual dripper is the way to go, I might end up avoiding espresso machines altogether.
I know it sounds weird, and that I'm saying I don't care if it's £200 or £2000, but that's not quite what I mean. I'd rather spend £200 and be satisfied, than £2000 and regret spending so much BUT I'd also raher spend £2000 and not regret it than spend £200 and wish afterwards that I'd just done it 'properly' the first time.
That is to say, the exact cost isn't my problem. £200, £1000, £2000 .... any of those is fine provided I don't regret it afterwards. I am just not sure what approach, Nespresso, drippers, filter machine, B2C, barista-style machine, whatever, is right. After all, it is ultimately just about decent coffee. But "decent" is oh, so subjective.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Lol.. BLENDERS !!!
Please don't get me started on them.. We (by that I mean me) spent £350 on a Blentec 18 months ago, it's only been used to crush ice and make breadcrumbs
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lee_evo
Lol.. BLENDERS !!!
Please don't get me started on them.. We (by that I mean me) spent £350 on a Blentec 18 months ago, it's only been used to crush ice and make breadcrumbs
So no blended phones, then? :D
BlendTec was the other candidate for me, but I went Vitamix. I must admit I use it quite a bit. Everything from smoothies to peanut butter. I also tend to buy granulated sugar and zap my own castor and even icing sugar .... though getting the latter into a bag/container without redecorating the kitchen is a challenge. But, simple cheese sauce for pasta, like maybe chicken, ham and mushroom, with a 5 minute cheese sauce. Or a very quick, hot tomato sauce for pasta, but usually I do that on the hob. Oh, and ice cream, from frozen fruit and cream. Talking of which, banana and strawberry milkshake. And pesto. And .... well, you get the idea.
I even blend shredded wheat. No, seriously. It's a sorta Muesli-like substitute. Blend a shr. wheat briefly and slowly. I don't mean nuke it into dust, just break it down. Mix with some spwecial K, and a few cornflakes. Add a couple of chopped strawberries, some chopped dried apricots, raisins, whatever you have and fancy. Instant muesli substiture. and for clarity, chop the fruit with a knife, not the blender. And on that subject, ricemilk? Almond milk. etc.
I love my Vitamix.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Are there at least any machines you can dismiss?
For me, the capsule machines are out. What do you do with the spent capsules? Refill them, that's another job. Landfill is wasteful, recycling is is a pain. Having spent grinds that are just food waste (or compost if you are into that) is a lot easier. The lower running cost of the B2C machine vs lower up front cost of a pod machine also favours B2C.
Something more manual than a B2C was out. I'm never going to be more consistent than a robot, not at a task where I don't want to put the hours in.
That left me with what price point to go in at. I think I was lucky here, the machine I got was a pretty good price so I got the sale price feel good factor straight up. At the time I probably couldn't do more than a £500 machine, so selection was fairy easy.
On the subject of kitchen implements, a few months ago I had yet another hand whisk fail on me and bought one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004VLYQFO/
I didn't know OXO made kitchen implements, but after years of only being able to find what were clearly race to the bottom cheaply made crud that was unreliable and hard to clean, something that just works and then the head can go in the dishwasher is amazing. Well done OXO.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanceswithUnix
....
I didn't know OXO made kitchen implements, but after years of only being able to find what were clearly race to the bottom cheaply made crud that was unreliable and hard to clean, something that just works and then the head can go in the dishwasher is amazing. Well done OXO.
I have a couple of OXO thingies, and while for usually simple hand tools they aren't cheap, so far they've been good value. One, for example, is an apple corer. And yeah, I know. It was a whim, okay? :D But I actually really like it. It's fast, simple, very effective and doesn't seem to get blunt.
Which brings me to a perfect example of my basic "buy once" principle: kitchen knives.
I have no doubt you know this, but for anybody that doesn't, you can buy what I would class a three "grades" of knives. And yeah, that's a bit of a simplication. There are cheap knives from the average supermarket, there are 'decent' knives, and then there are very fancy, hand-engraved Japanese works of art.
Like so many things, up to a point, you get what you pay for. At the cheap end, what you generally get is something that won't take a decent edge, or if by some miracle, it loses it the first time you slice an onion. At the other end, there's the "Rolls Royce" class - fabulous engineering, walnut, hand-stitched top-grade leather and, yeah, you pay for all that, but you also pay for the name.
Then there are the knives I chose to buy. They're mid-range, price-wise. Not as expensive as Global, et alone those really, really nice Japanese works of art that, while fabulous, I'd be too delighted at the craftmanship to actually use it. I mean, let's face it, back to Katana's of old, the Japanese really know how to work steel. We'll quickly skip over the Japanese car industry of the 60s/70s, and Nissan's that barely made it off the dock before they fell apart with rust, andwere something of a joke. Not that it took them all that long to catch on to the sniggering, and well, the results in the next few decades speak for themselves. US and European car makers haven't sniggeredat Japanese cars for several decades now. Panicked, yeah, but sniggered? Nope.
Anyway, I digress. Again. So, mid-range knives, like, oh, Analon. Decent steel, pretty good edge, not cheap but not expensive. If I were a chef, using knives several hours a day, sure, I'd buy Global or something similar, but for my hour a day, if that, top-end knives would be a wasteful extravagance. I'm not hard up, but a LONG way from wealthy, too. I don't mind paying what I can afford for good quality, but largely on the basis of "buy right, buy once. Buy cheap, buy overand over again".
That applies to knives, mixers and, yeah, coffee machines. Which brings my little diversion back on point - can I eliminate any machines? Yeah. That two grand Sage represents just about the maximum price point. Or maybe, exceeds it. I can do that, and I rather want one, but it just feels a bit too self-indulgent. It would perhaps be like buying Global knives - nice, but a bit too far ... maybe.
Anything beyond that, and for anyone that's never looked, there are a LOT of top espresso machines beyond that, andthat's without getting into commercial machines for which you can go way, way past that. I mean, never mind brewing machines, you can pay more than that (and a lot more than that) for a good espresso grinder, alone.
So, what I have eliminated (unless I win the lottery) is anything much beyond that, and I'm struggling to commit (you may have noticed) even to that far.
My problem is deciding what I want from this? Two questions remain :-
- is it just about "good" coffee? And then, decidingwhat I mean by "good".
- how much time do Iwant to spend learning stuff? Or is it just to pusha button, get a cop of coffee?
- actually, third question - is this about espresso, or just decent coffee?
On the first question, my initial intent was that Nespresso was good enough. And, I have to say, they're not bad. But I've had far better. I have a nasty feeling that, initially, I might be happy with pod coffee but, partly for the reasons you give above, I suspect I might fairly quickly end up feeling .... oppressed, maybe frustrated is a better word .... by not being able to go further.
I know better coffee exists, than that. Nespresso is (IMHO) an environmentally dubious way of getting a reason cup, very quickly and easily. But no more.
B2C? Well, yeah maybe. But really, a BTC machine is trying to get a few steps beyond Nespresso, to bring out more of the coffee flavour, but still, pretty much at the push of a button, with maybe a few option buttons. It's not muchmore complicated, in use, that selecting tea, coffee or chocolate, and milk or not, on a railway station vending machine of the 80s. Yeah, a bit of cleaning and maintenance, but in daily use, push buttons, wait and drink.
Then there's the home barista class. The machines are, in many ways, simpler (better built, typically, but simpler) than B2C but you, the user, has to understand coffee and brewing, know how to dial in, how to judge what comes out to get it right, and so on.
I don't want to go that far, either.
Or more accurately, I don't want to have to go that far.
This is why that Sage machine appeals. The machine is simpler than BTC in one important way - you, the user, get the dry coffee into the brewer (standard portafilter) and the used cake into the bin. It simplifies cleaning, and eliminates the transfer mechanism entirely. So, the rest of the money goes into other features, and what you endup with seems, to me, to be a hybrid, a half-way house, between almost fully auto BTC, and the versatility of home barista.
You can, and I mostly would, use it in auto mode - push a few buttons and insert cup. But you can also control most of the variables of a fully barista type machine. Not quite all, but most. You can change dose, though it's fiddly and not designed to be done regularly. You have to remove a part, loosed a grub screw and adjust a shaft length. But if you want 18 or 19g doses, rather than the 22or 23g that seems to be factory default, you can. Or .... grind manually and don't usethe integrated grinder to distribute the coffee and tamp the puck.
You can just accept temperatures and times, etc, but you can override the defaults. You can save your changes, oryoucan create your own "buttons" (touchscreen, remember, so virtual buttons).
I mean, I could go on, but what appeals to me is that you can used it moreor less like a BTC, except that you have to take the loaded portafilter out of the grinder and stick it under the group head to brew, but you can also do most of what you can do with a barista class machine.
So .... after my initial periodof getting nice coffee, andunlike either Nespresso or BTC machines, I have most (but not all) of the versatilty of barista type machines to tweak for both different coffees, variations in batches of even the same coffee, and even my own personal taste preferences. It just comes at a fairly chunky up-front price.
All of which brings me to my actual quandary .... it's not whether I have eliminated some machines, or even classes of machines, it's about whatI want to be able to do, and whether I'm prepared to pay it to get a cup ofcoffee?
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saracen999
All of which brings me to my actual quandary .... it's not whether I have eliminated some machines, or even classes of machines, it's about what I want to be able to do, and whether I'm prepared to pay it to get a cup of coffee?
Fair enough. So it sounds like if it wasn't for the price, then the hybrid machine would be ideal for you. I think you might be over estimating the b2c cleaning, it chucks the little pucks of coffee into an internal bin and that internal bin is a mild pain to wipe out which is a weekly task (sometimes more depending on use).
One thing you might want to consider is others who might use it. Even my wife, who has a degree in IT and isn't fazed by things like replacing car brake pads, was reluctant to try and use the B2C at first as coffee machines tend to be intimidating and covered in pipes. Now she makes me coffee, but I think anything more complicated and coffee would be my job!
TBH I'm starting to think you are over thinking this. Which ever machine you get I suspect will be awesome, and will certainly make decent coffee. Write down the short list, number them, roll a dice, buy that one ;) As long as it starts with beans, and ends with coffee.
There was a time when having a blade grinder to grind your own beans for a filter jug was considered posh :D
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanceswithUnix
....
TBH I'm starting to think you are over thinking this. Which ever machine you get I suspect will be awesome, and will certainly make decent coffee. Write down the short list, number them, roll a dice, buy that one ;) As long as it starts with beans, and ends with coffee.
There was a time when having a blade grinder to grind your own beans for a filter jug was considered posh :D
On the over-thinking, YGPM. Sent before your post, though, in anticipation of that thought.
On "posh" blade grinders, tell me about it. A Krups blade grinder and a Melitta filter machine at uni in the 70s was, well, I seemed to acquire a surprising quantity of friends. :D
I still have the Krups 'grinder', and it still works, and a similar filter machine. The results are ... okay, especially compared to instant.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I bought a Dolce Gusto machine that came with 200 coffee pods. The amount of waste all those used pods create, although they do provide a bag with free postage for recycling.
I ended up buying a refillable pod which works surprisingly well.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
It seems that coffee machines are an essential bit of IT equipment, perhaps Hexus should start reviewing them and send you some machines to try out :D
One would certainly make an interesting Christmas giveaway item!
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanceswithUnix
It seems that coffee machines are an essential bit of IT equipment, perhaps Hexus should start reviewing them and send you some machines to try out :D
One would certainly make an interesting Christmas giveaway item!
It could be a fun cranble collaboration
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanceswithUnix
It seems that coffee machines are an essential bit of IT equipment, perhaps Hexus should start reviewing them and send you some machines to try out :D
One would certainly make an interesting Christmas giveaway item!
Well, of course they're essential IT equipment.
So are pizza ovens.
What do you say, DR? New review category?
........
Oh. That's what you say. Dang.
HOLD ON A SEC. GIVE AWAY? MY (REVIEW) COFFEE MACHINE.
NFC, pal. Possession is nine tenths. Or ten tenths in this case.
But if it works, you can be the first HEXGuest (TM) invited round to test the ... erm .... output.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
You guys are definitely onto something. Forget the latest RGB bling, I'd love a Hexus coffee machine competition! (And if Asus et al branch into RGB coffee machines then.. well.. ARGHHH!)
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
So Saracen, any progress on the decision?
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanceswithUnix
So Saracen, any progress on the decision?
I'm also keen to hear!
Side note - Got some coffee beans from notes coffee (based in London I believe). Not nice. Avoid :P
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Cafétiere, home ground beans.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
g8ina
Cafétiere, home ground beans.
A man after my own heart :)
What beans are you on at the moment? I'm on Kenya AA from Waitrose now - superb!
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I'm expecting that after months of research and comparison he'll give up and just buy a teapot.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spacein_vader
I'm expecting that after months of research and comparison he'll give up and just buy a teapot.
lol, he could be on a professional Barista training course as part of his research, which seemed to be snowballing somewhat :)
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
To be honest, I think he's gonna splash out about £800 on the top of the range machine he was intrigued by.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neonplanet40
To be honest, I think he's gonna splash out about £800 on the top of the range machine he was intrigued by.
I think you'll find he was up to more like £1600. I want to know what coffee tastes like from such a beast!
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kalniel
A man after my own heart :)
What beans are you on at the moment? I'm on Kenya AA from Waitrose now - superb!
Sadly my own coffee now has to be decaf, so Im on Machu Pichu from Tesco, not bad, but Sally has either Asda green pack or Tesco brown pack unbranded beans.
As an occasional treat we have the Taylors Italian Blend. Rarely we get some much betterrer beans, like the kilo we brought back from malta 2 yrs ago, now that WAS nice.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
I do like this thread :) there's some good advice and great ideas kicking around, why haven't we got Hexus coffee machine reviews and giveaways? :rant:
I've been looking for an outlet for some xmas money and as gpu's are diamond crusted hen's teeth atm coffee machine would be a good alternative.
I still us an old ikea 1cup filter thing (they don't seem to sell it anymore) which I use with a travel mug for my morning commute coffee
And a basic cheap coffee machine if I'm at home and want multiple cups (I don't use it that much because it's a lot of faff for one person and my otherhalf doesn't drink coffee)
Now I've shared a house with people who've had espresso machines before and I do keep thinking I want one again but it is an expense that's hard to justify and with the cleanup added in I do find myself turning to teabags instead of coffee more often than not or even sometimes instant :vacant:
That's one thing I've found, I'm a lot more picky over instant than real coffee, I find good instant coffee acceptable, I'll not drink bad instant, but bad real is still acceptable.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pob255
That's one thing I've found, I'm a lot more picky over instant than real coffee, I find good instant coffee acceptable, I'll not drink bad instant, but bad real is still acceptable.
I can't drink instant. I have a pot of rocket fuel for emergencies and that's more like taking medicine than enjoying a cup!
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pob255
I do like this thread :) there's some good advice and great ideas kicking around, why haven't we got Hexus coffee machine reviews and giveaways? :rant:
I've been looking for an outlet for some xmas money and as gpu's are diamond crusted hen's teeth atm coffee machine would be a good alternative.
I still us an old ikea 1cup filter thing (they don't seem to sell it anymore) which I use with a travel mug for my morning commute coffee
And a basic cheap coffee machine if I'm at home and want multiple cups (I don't use it that much because it's a lot of faff for one person and my otherhalf doesn't drink coffee)
Now I've shared a house with people who've had espresso machines before and I do keep thinking I want one again but it is an expense that's hard to justify and with the cleanup added in I do find myself turning to teabags instead of coffee more often than not or even sometimes instant :vacant:
That's one thing I've found, I'm a lot more picky over instant than real coffee, I find good instant coffee acceptable, I'll not drink bad instant, but bad real is still acceptable.
Lol, what have I started :D
Neonplanet's earlier link seems to no longer work, but the modern equivalent of my machine (that model is EOL) seems to be this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00LB8FHJ4/
which looks very similar and had the same buttons and knobs in the same places. Cleaning is really minimal, ease of use is simple.
Edit: ao.com is 1p more for the same machine if you don't like Amazon.
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Ummm .... a bit of sublime, and a bit of ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanceswithUnix
I think you'll find he was up to more like £1600. I want to know what coffee tastes like from such a beast!
Well, the main machine was £1999. But I was (still kinda am) planning on a grinder too, but partly, don't need it yet, and partly, not available (limited production capability (*) ) at the moment. That was another £500.
Bear in mind that quite a chunk of the cost of that machine was about convenience, and the same money (or less) buys you manual machines that are capable of better results .... or much worse if not used well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spacein_vader
I'm expecting that after months of research and comparison he'll give up and just buy a teapot.
Well .... not quite. A Nespresso machine.
Okay, you can stop laughing. And yes, I'm serious. You too, Dances. I can see you.
Look, sniggers aside, I got a report from my water company and the water round here is so hard if you threw it at a window, you'd break the window. You don't need descaler, you need dynamite. And the notion of a clogged up, scaled up two thousand quid coffee machine makes me shudder.
A friend, a couple of miles away had two successive Gaggia machines, each of which lasted about 2 years.
I'm not sure I can be done with constant bottled water purchases, and all that plastic, just to feed a coffee machine.
So .... water filtration. There's a rather looking nice RO system (sorry, reverse osmosis) which, reputedly, removes about 99.9% of everything that isn't either the first H, the second H or the O. Which probably leaves it tasting bland and, by the way, means I might have dealt with the carbonate problem but now could have a machine-damaging alkalinity issue .... and bland tasting coffee. So I may need to find a chemical adition to add some acceptable mineral balance back in. Oh, and that's about £500, plus filters, etc.
Now, you can easily write what I know about water filtration on the pointy end of the world's sharpest pin. So I've enrolled on a degree course in water chemistry, with a minor in coffee brewing.
Okay, fibbing about the degree. You got me. What gave me away?
But seriously, I need some time to sort this through.
Meantime, I came across a deal that gets me a Nespresso Vertuo Plus, their Aero-thingy 4 milk doodad, some nice glass mugs, some chocolate and descaler. Oh, and about 800 capsules. Shoud be nearly £750 and the deal was a bit over £400, over 6 months (includes a coffee subscription for 6 months).
So I now have as long as it takes me to drink 800+ Nespresso coffees to sort out the filtration. And hope that grinder is back in stock by then.
(*) It's actually a kickstarter type thing on Indiegogo and it's not so much stock, as orders exceeding production, so they release a 'batch' of order slots, then make and ship, so until some new order slots come up :(
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
after having tassimo a few years i got the nespresso and very pleased with it. it\'s cheaper than the tassimo pod wise. i\'ve got a milk frother/heater gadget and the glass mugs, tiny expresso ones and bigger ones for normal drinking. they look nice with the milk/froth showing at the top like a pint of guinness. i still use both machines, this week making two coffees at once on each machine when i ran out of milk, so the milk pod coffee in the tassimo and coffee without milk on the nespresso that would be cool to drink by the time i finished the tassimo. i went through a fair amount of coffee when i got my nespresso with a large selection of different coffees, but being in lockdown was the main contributor to that. i\'m never without a tea or coffee during "working" hours. been drinking up to 8 coffees a day when normally at home i\'d have one a day, maybe two a day at weekends. i drink tea too, so going through about 50 pods a week was a lot. and i wasn\'t up all night as i\'d stop coffee by about 5pm
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saracen999
Ummm .... a bit of sublime, and a bit of ridiculous.
Well, the main machine was £1999. But I was (still kinda am) planning on a grinder too, but partly, don't need it yet, and partly, not available (limited production capability (*) ) at the moment. That was another £500.
Bear in mind that quite a chunk of the cost of that machine was about convenience, and the same money (or less) buys you manual machines that are capable of better results .... or much worse if not used well.
Well .... not quite. A Nespresso machine.
Okay, you can stop laughing. And yes, I'm serious. You too, Dances. I can see you.
Look, sniggers aside, I got a report from my water company and the water round here is so hard if you threw it at a window, you'd break the window. You don't need descaler, you need dynamite. And the notion of a clogged up, scaled up two thousand quid coffee machine makes me shudder.
A friend, a couple of miles away had two successive Gaggia machines, each of which lasted about 2 years.
I'm not sure I can be done with constant bottled water purchases, and all that plastic, just to feed a coffee machine.
So .... water filtration. There's a rather looking nice RO system (sorry, reverse osmosis) which, reputedly, removes about 99.9% of everything that isn't either the first H, the second H or the O. Which probably leaves it tasting bland and, by the way, means I might have dealt with the carbonate problem but now could have a machine-damaging alkalinity issue .... and bland tasting coffee. So I may need to find a chemical adition to add some acceptable mineral balance back in. Oh, and that's about £500, plus filters, etc.
Now, you can easily write what I know about water filtration on the pointy end of the world's sharpest pin. So I've enrolled on a degree course in water chemistry, with a minor in coffee brewing.
Okay, fibbing about the degree. You got me. What gave me away?
But seriously, I need some time to sort this through.
Meantime, I came across a deal that gets me a Nespresso Vertuo Plus, their Aero-thingy 4 milk doodad, some nice glass mugs, some chocolate and descaler. Oh, and about 800 capsules. Shoud be nearly £750 and the deal was a bit over £400, over 6 months (includes a coffee subscription for 6 months).
So I now have as long as it takes me to drink 800+ Nespresso coffees to sort out the filtration. And hope that grinder is back in stock by then.
(*) It's actually a kickstarter type thing on Indiegogo and it's not so much stock, as orders exceeding production, so they release a 'batch' of order slots, then make and ship, so until some new order slots come up :(
Nestlé ??????
Blocked in our house on ethical grounds (no pun intended !)
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Re: Coffee machine for an occasional user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
g8ina
Nestlé ??????
'Fraid so, yeah.
I have to say, so far, customer service has been utterly superb.
I already had a very good deal (IMHO) and discovered a misunderstanding in the order. It had been changed slightly to effectively give me a free set of glass mugs, but the way it was done didn't give me the coffee selection I'd intended. So, they credited for the 40 pods I expected, but still sent the 40 I wasn't expecting. 40 free pods. Extremely fast, very polite, no quibble, just sort the problem.
I've often said it's not whether a mistake is made that's telling. It's what they do about it. And I can't fault them on that.