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Thread: Upgrade not straightforward!

  1. #17
    RIP Peterb ik9000's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    also is there an explicit place (possibly in the CPU or XMP configuration menus) where you tell it to run RAM at manual timings NOT XMP settings? On my BIOS it's on the same page, I just want to check the manual setting in the screen shot you put up is the only place you need to set it to manual and that there isn't something else hiding away. Turn off anything saying Use XMP or XMP auto etc. It can't read the XMP settings so that won't work for you.

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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    I think we may be getting somewhere!

    Whilst looking into the detailed specs for the modules as you suggested I read up on CPU-Z which turned out to be a great diagnostic tool for this! See below for a few screenshots of the info it gave me...

    CPU clock speed is 100:


    16GB installed, dual channel mode:


    A few minor(?) differences - e.g. XMP (version?) between original and new sticks (could explain the XMP problem) and in some of the JEDEC (whatever that is!) timings, XMP-1600 is identical though:


    CPU-Z would appear to give me all the info needed to do the manual configuration but I'm scratching my head a bit - can you help?

    - I can set the DRAM freq. at 1066/1333/1600MHz - I've selected 1600 as the sticks support that and that's where CPU-Z reports they are completely identical in timings.
    - I can choose between 1.00 or 1.33 Memory Clock Multiplier
    - Under 1.00 Memory Clock Multiplier I can choose multipliers of 14/16/18/20/22/24/26/28
    - Under 1.33 Memory Clock Multiplier I can choose multipliers of 10.67/13.33/16/18.67/21.33/24/26.67

    IIUC I need to get from 100MHz to 1600MHz (or perhaps 800 as dual channel) with the multipliers. The only way I can see that is to choose 1.00 and 16 - but that doesn't work/boot when I select it.

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    RIP Peterb ik9000's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake_UK View Post
    I think we may be getting somewhere!

    Whilst looking into the detailed specs for the modules as you suggested I read up on CPU-Z which turned out to be a great diagnostic tool for this! See below for a few screenshots of the info it gave me...

    CPU clock speed is 100:


    16GB installed, dual channel mode:


    A few minor(?) differences - e.g. XMP (version?) between original and new sticks (could explain the XMP problem) and in some of the JEDEC (whatever that is!) timings, XMP-1600 is identical though:


    CPU-Z would appear to give me all the info needed to do the manual configuration but I'm scratching my head a bit - can you help?

    - I can set the DRAM freq. at 1066/1333/1600MHz - I've selected 1600 as the sticks support that and that's where CPU-Z reports they are completely identical in timings.
    - I can choose between 1.00 or 1.33 Memory Clock Multiplier
    - Under 1.00 Memory Clock Multiplier I can choose multipliers of 14/16/18/20/22/24/26/28
    - Under 1.33 Memory Clock Multiplier I can choose multipliers of 10.67/13.33/16/18.67/21.33/24/26.67

    IIUC I need to get from 100MHz to 1600MHz (or perhaps 800 as dual channel) with the multipliers. The only way I can see that is to choose 1.00 and 16 - but that doesn't work/boot when I select it.
    have you set the other RAM timings? eg Note how tRC needs to be relaxed (increased) to compensate. Also set the command rate to 2T instead of 1T as cpuZ notes. How do slots 3 and 4 compare in CPUZ? Presume they show up with the same settings as 1 and 2 respectively?

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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    Slots 3/4 are indeed exactly the same as 1/2.


    tRC isn't one of the timing settings available in BIOS but I've set the 'main' 9/9/9/24 timings and I tried all the remaining settings (see BIOS screenshot earlier in thread) at their max numbers as they were all 'delays' so I assume max means slowest but most stable/usable - I couldn't find any resource online that had a specific set of recommendations. It wouldn't POST though.

    1T/2T also isn't listed in the BIOS but the CPU-Z screenshot says it's running in 2T already anyway.

    Not sure what else to try - I'll email Corsair and ask them but I'm surprised what a PITA this is for sticks with the same model number!

  5. #21
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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    the tables in CPUs are recommended values not what it is running at

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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    the tables in CPUs are recommended values not what it is running at
    i think i've just spotted the problem.

    Does each set of 2 work individually ok, just not all 4 together?

    If so then as I mentioned before i think it might be due to differences in internal architecture. You see the line in CPU-Z where it says "ranks" and one set is "Dual" while one is "single"?

    Have a read here: https://www.overclock.net/forum/1805...-vs-ranks.html

    You have dual sided and single sided modules. It sounds like it can't address them both at the same time.

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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    Does each set of 2 work individually ok, just not all 4 together?
    That's right.

    Corsair replied and were about as useful as a chocolate teapot: "Unfortunately we cannot guarantee 100% compatibility between different kits even if they have the same part number as they may have different hardware revisions. We always advise to purchase a quad kit, instead of 2 kits with the same part number."

    FFS...

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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    Could be what ik9000 said, dual sided and single sided modules causing issues. Have had it happen myself in the past. Do all sticks have chips on both sides?
    Jon

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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake_UK View Post
    That's right.

    Corsair replied and were about as useful as a chocolate teapot: "Unfortunately we cannot guarantee 100% compatibility between different kits even if they have the same part number as they may have different hardware revisions. We always advise to purchase a quad kit, instead of 2 kits with the same part number."

    FFS...
    well their advice is a little short sighted. you need to buy one more set of two. it will match one pair. there are only two options for rank. single out dual
    . you have one if each ergo one more set and you have four that will work together. for the other two there is eBay.

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    Unhappy Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    OK, I've managed to find a bit of time to do some work on this... but I'm still stumped.

    I've obtained a third pair of sticks, these report in CPU-Z as truly identical to the original pair - every single value is exactly the same. I have the same result though in that BIOS and OS's don't recognise them, only CPU-Z.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonj1611 View Post
    Do all sticks have chips on both sides?
    The sticks have heatsink covers on but they are identical in dimensions and symmetry (i.e. the heatsinks stick equi-distant from the PCB on both sides (none look 'one-sided' in any way). All four sticks have the same part numbers (CMLxxxxxx) and version numbers. (ver 7.12).

    I've also got some thermal paste now and so I pulled the CPU out to check that - no bent pins.

    I'm really stumped - as per thread title I expected this to be the easiest upgrade ever but it's a true PITA!

  11. #27
    RIP Peterb ik9000's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    take one stick from each pair and install those only. do they play together ok?

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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    Yes they do. Does that suggest it's the sockets on the MoBo, or something else?

  13. #29
    RIP Peterb ik9000's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrade not straightforward!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake_UK View Post
    Yes they do. Does that suggest it's the sockets on the MoBo, or something else?
    use one stick. Use it in each of the four slots individually in turn. Do all 4 work on their own?

    Repeat with all 4 sticks cycled individually.

    Something is up and it is either:
    1) a bad RAM module
    2) a bad RAM slot
    3) a gimped memory controller that can't power all 4.

    if not 1 or 2 then adjusting the voltage settings to the memory controller might help 3) but this needs to be done carefully and sensibly to not bork the machine and do more damage. Exhaust 1 and 2 first before going anywhere near it.

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