Vodafone Fibre

[jimborae]

Thank you Watercooled, I didn't have the time, energy or more importantly knowledge to give such a complete explanation but it does highlight my point that others on here do.

[ik9000]

I don't know much about fibre regulated by Ofcom, but I do know about fibre to keep us regulated so that qualifies me to post a contribution that may or may not be useful to this thread:



For all your daily fibre needs

[Andy14]

Prefer Bran flakes myself.. Seems little point updating this thread with progress of the order / fitting / experiences now it's been thoroughly derailed. I shall potentially start a new thread once it's all fitted.

For posterity and to help any others that may be considering making the same savings.

[watercooled]

Prefer Bran flakes myself.. Seems little point updating this thread with progress of the order / fitting / experiences now it's been thoroughly derailed. I shall potentially start a new thread once it's all fitted.

For posterity and to help any others that may be considering making the same savings.

Please do share how you get on. Are you planning on trying to use your own modem/router or just sticking with the Vodafone one?

[ik9000]

ahem yes sorry. I commute with southern so apparently rails are just decorative or so we're told. why can't you use your own router? can you put their one into modem mode and place your own on the back of it? Virgin let you do this

[me-yeah]

I do read the Reg, everyday usually and comment from time to time as well. But I can tell you for a fact that not all mobile companies connect to "EE fibre", which is in fact BT's which was laid well before BT bought/merged with EE and it was not the reason BT bought EE.

Mobile companies use a variety of providers to connect their cell sites to their core network, including Colt Telecom, BT, C&W (now Vodafone) and point to point microwave suppliers, to name but a few. My first job in Vodafone, over 16 years ago, was to order links to connect our cell sites up and usually we choose which provider to use based on cost and time to connect.

EE laid down their own fiber, and wholesale it to most other mobile companies, which is why BT brought EE, BT are still laying down fiber with government grants, even though BT won't give half the country a phoneline to use because its the first bill you won't pay when your fired from your job

EE and 3 were going to lay more fiber down together, but then EE were sold, as soon as BT brought EE, the wholesale price went up and all other mobile telecoms ditched their unlimited plans except for t-mobile which just put the price up to £12

BT will just eat up the fiber and leave EE like o2, when BT failed and sold o2 with 300,000 customers left

[Andy14]

Please do share how you get on. Are you planning on trying to use your own modem/router or just sticking with the Vodafone one?

I'm planning on just using their router to start. Currently I have 2 boxes from BT, (ONT and Router) and I believe this should come down to 1, which is nice. In theory the spec's on the Vodafone router are very good, Gigabit Ethernet ports, AC, Beam forming, configuration via iphone app, etc. So hopefully it's as good as they make it sound.

[peterb]

EE laid down their own fiber, and wholesale it to most other mobile companies, which is why BT brought EE, BT are still laying down fiber with government grants, even though BT won't give half the country a phoneline to use because its the first bill you won't pay when your fired from your job

EE and 3 were going to lay more fiber down together, but then EE were sold, as soon as BT brought EE, the wholesale price went up and all other mobile telecoms ditched their unlimited plans except for t-mobile which just put the price up to £12

BT will just eat up the fiber and leave EE like o2, when BT failed and sold o2 with 300,000 customers left

I think Jimborae (as an employee/former employee) refuted that assertion.

BT (with Vodafone) were the first two mobile phone service providers with their Cellnet product (long before EE) which they subsequently sold to Telefonica of Spain.

As for costs, fibre doesn't just get laid an forgetten about, fibre links and the termination equipment needs maintenance and repair, and laying ducts for fibre isn't easy or cheap, involving negotiations with land owners and access for cable laying equipment.

As for your assertion about have the country not having a landline these statistics show otherwise, bearing in mind these are households. It also shows that BT are not the largest providers of landline services.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/facts

[me-yeah]

I think Jimborae (as an employee/former employee) refuted that assertion.

BT (with Vodafone) were the first two mobile phone service providers with their Cellnet product (long before EE) which they subsequently sold to Telefonica of Spain.

As for costs, fibre doesn't just get laid an forgetten about, fibre links and the termination equipment needs maintenance and repair, and laying ducts for fibre isn't easy or cheap, involving negotiations with land owners and access for cable laying equipment.

As for your assertion about have the country not having a landline these statistics show otherwise, bearing in mind these are households. It also shows that BT are not the largest providers of landline services.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/facts

if the statistic's were detailed, you would find alot of people only have broadband with a mobile dongle, there is 42% for super fast fixed broadband lines, i don't think ADSL has been sold for 5 years or more

[Disturbedguy]

if the statistic's were detailed, you would find alot of people only have broadband with a mobile dongle, there is 42% for super fast fixed broadband lines, i don't think ADSL has been sold for 5 years or more

And where is your proof?

You constantly post spurious rubbish, with no proof and just expect people to take your word...you know...like me being able to get a Skoda on my M.O.T I believe it was...

I willing to bet, everyone on these forums are going to believe someone like Jimborae, more than you, based on the fact he clearly has experience in the field, where as you...well....

[ik9000]

E even though BT won't give half the country a phoneline to use because its the first bill you won't pay when your fired from your job

Sorry, I don't follow. Can you explain that one a bit more?

[me-yeah]

And where is your proof?

You constantly post spurious rubbish, with no proof and just expect people to take your word...you know...like me being able to get a Skoda on my M.O.T I believe it was...

I willing to bet, everyone on these forums are going to believe someone like Jimborae, more than you, based on the fact he clearly has experience in the field, where as you...well....

its in the statistic's, if 80% of households have the internet and only 42% have a landline for super fast broad band, that leave's 38% of people most of which can't tether iphone's to use the internet on your desktop and alot of andriod locked phones can't be tethered to your PC to be able to use the internet, which leave most people using mobile dongles

Sorry, I don't follow. Can you explain that one a bit more?

if you don't pay your last bill or contract off, BT won't give you a landline back, they might after a few years, and make you have a payphone on the wall, except now, nobody needs a landline for phone call's, 3 network on pay as you go is just as cheap

BT brought EE, to become a monopoly again and try to control the wholesale price

[peterb]

If you had read the ofcom link I posted you would see that there are 25million landlines in the U.K., so roughly one per household. BT is the second largest supplier of land lines, but there are several network service providers who have fibre networks and lease them for dedicated point to point links.

Can we see something that supports your assertion s that "BT bought EE to become a monopoly again. "? given that both OfCOM and the monopolies commission would have a view on that.

It's my understanding that after BT sold Cellnet they wanted to get back into the (profitable) mobile market again.

[Disturbedguy]

If you had read the ofcom link I posted you would see that there are 25million landlines in the U.K., so roughly one per household. BT is the second largest supplier of land lines, but there are several network service providers who have fibre networks and lease them for dedicated point to point links.

Can we see something that supports your assertion s that "BT bought EE to become a monopoly again. "? given that both OfCOM and the monopolies commission would have a view on that.

It's my understanding that after BT sold Cellnet they wanted to get back into the (profitable) mobile market again.

Of course we can't Peter, he is pulling random numbers out of the air..just like he seems to pull random tosh out of the air in other threads..

[watercooled]

I was going to do a multi-quote but it was getting a bit unwieldy so I'll just I'll just refer to posts instead.

WRT the Vodafone modem - as far as I know, they're a bit like Sky in that they make it a bit more difficult to use your own. Vodafone seem to require login details which you're not normally provided with, but some people have had success in directly asking Vodafone for them. The usual caveat of it 'not being supported' applies though i.e. tech support will probably blame your router before accepting a fault exists - so be sure to keep hold of the ISP one so you can swap it back in if needs be. But it could well be a worthwhile trade of if, like BT, they force 'updates' down the line, rebooting your modem randomly and with annoying frequency. I'm not certain but I don't think you can use the router in modem-only/bridge mode unfortunately.

@peterb: What do you mean about BT not being the largest provider of landline services? I can't find what part of the statistics you linked you're referring to, but AFAIK even if you're talking about BT retail rather than Openreach, they still have the largest landline customer base?

Outside of Hull (where kcom has a near-monopoly), BT has a universal service obligation, meaning they are obliged to provide a landline telephone service to anyone, anywhere in the country for a flat rate, and Openreach easily have the largest footprint. Even with MPF unbundling (e.g. Sky/TT/etc), that copper pair entering your house is still Openreach owned and maintained, up to the exchange where it's attached to either BTW equipment or that belonging to the LLU provider, and with 'fibre' (FTTC) - the cabinet is still Openreach, with the LLU provider connecting to a network switch in the exchange. There are of course a handful of exceptions but this is the case for the vast majority of premises in the UK. And of course Virgin and altnets have their own last-mile networks.

@me-yeah: As I said in my longer post earlier, I don't doubt EE lay some of their own fibre where it makes sense to do so, and in some cases they probably lease it to other networks, but the opposite is equally true, and I provided a link to clear evidence of EE purchasing capacity from Virgin Media. Do you have any links to the sources claiming otherwise? EE and 3 still co-operate in cell site construction as I explained earlier, through the MBNL partnership, not unlike the Cornerstone partnership of Vodafone and O2.

The timing of EE's sale doesn't correlate with the scrapping of unlimited plans. In fact I don't recall any network besides 3 ever offering unlimited data on LTE? Even EE. 3 likely put the brakes on it for the same reasons LTE networks worldwide have been doing it - largely because it's easy for people to abuse, and the nature of cellular access means it only takes relatively few people in a cell's coverage to start degrading performance for everyone else. That radio spectrum is shared by everyone in range and has limited bandwidth to offer - it's not 'unlimited'. Another method of handling this is to limit download speeds per customer, which EE have started doing depending on what package you subscribe to.

80% of households have the internet and only 42% have a landline for super fast broad band, that leave's 38% of people...

Eh?

[ik9000]

its in the statistic's, if 80% of households have the internet and only 42% have a landline for super fast broad band, that leave's 38% of people most of which can't tether iphone's to use the internet on your desktop and alot of andriod locked phones can't be tethered to your PC to be able to use the internet, which leave most people using mobile dongles

No, that leaves 38% of people probably on adsl or adsl2 - my house only got BT infinity capability in the last 6 months. Elsewhere in the country they are still waiting. In some places (my old flat) you couldn't get it at all, due to issues with private roads and lack-of-consents to bring the cables up the road. So the flats 30 seconds away on the same estate fronting the public road got Virgin and BT fibre, while everyone else could only have ADSL thanks to inaction on the part of the freeholders and management agents.

if you don't pay your last bill or contract off, BT won't give you a landline back, they might after a few years, and make you have a payphone on the wall, except now, nobody needs a landline for phone call's, 3 network on pay as you go is just as cheap

ok, so you're saying half the population can only have a pay phone from BT due to historic default? Half, in a country of 60+ million? You can always opt for an incoming-only line to receive calls and make 999 calls only. Still gives you a landline # for broadband purposes. So does a coin payphone for that matter.

BT brought EE, to become a monopoly again and try to control the wholesale price*

*citation needed.

It's my understanding that after BT sold Cellnet they wanted to get back into the (profitable) mobile market again.

IIRC they were made to sell it by the monopolies/competition comission due to objections as to the dominant market share it gave them. Cellnet thus got sold and became O2. That's my memory anyway - happy to be corrected by people in the know.