PSTN options, any flaws in my plan as far as it goes..

[sammyc]

Am looking at my options for this before it gets too last-minute and also as I am switching provider anyway. Have been reading this thread with interest https://forums.hexus.net/networking-...-question.html among others (seem to have lost my thanks button at the moment), slight consolation to find people on here that are finding it clear as mud in places.

Currently I have a no frills broadband & landline package which is all I require. I'm not in a full fibre area at the moment.

I do want to keep a traditional type phone even though it will be VoIP, and definitely my number (therefore bit alarmed by this sort of thing):

Yeah, I did have a quick search after posting. £20+vat, 20 working days, multiple forms and it cancels your landline & broadband. I guess if you're getting FTTP you could try and schedule everything as independent events then, well it'll probably all go horribly wrong and you'll have no internet for a month and lose your number

My rough draft thought is maybe to move to a VoIP service now as a dummy run, as I can't find a new ISP with free inclusive calls anyway with a package that suits, so I'd be paying for calls regardless. If I take out a new broadband & landline package, am I right in thinking I can hang on to my copper landline (for now), at the same time as trying out a standalone VoIP service from which I'd get a new number, and only port my current number over if I decide to keep to that arrangement? As above, the bit that concerns me is "it cancels your number and broadband", I understand it would cancel your landline, but your actual broadband, really??

At some point I assume my options will be a SoGEA connection and separate VoIP anyway, or fibre when it gets here, at which point it might be sensible to have a simple digital voice type thingy with phone plugging into router.

Mainly I want to hang onto my number until I come to a final setup, and cheap is also the keyword. I assume I'd probably need an adapter or a VoIP phone in which case any pitfalls to look out for in buying one?

Ta for any thoughts whatever.

[DanceswithUnix]

My rough draft thought is maybe to move to a VoIP service now as a dummy run, as I can't find a new ISP with free inclusive calls anyway with a package that suits, so I'd be paying for calls regardless.

My ISP (Zen) apparently include 1000 minutes in their voip service.

I say apparently as I dropped the land line when I went full fibre. The router they supplied has an analogue phone port on the side and can apparently talk to DECT phones directly, but that's all turned off for me.

https://www.zen.co.uk/phone/digital-voice/

[sammyc]

I did look at zen - quite a good site for explanatory articles, it's one of theirs I came across early on "lots of people believe that a full fibre broadband connection is needed for Digital Voice. However, that isn't the case. Because Digital Voice uses the internet instead of phone lines to operate, all you actually need is a modern, data-only, home internet connection; in other words, full fibre or SOGEA".)

Currently I'm on ADSL with Now Broadband - zen offer me unlimited fibre 1 or 2, they also have a 'fast broadband' but I can't seem to get them to quote me for that with postcode checker. They're not the cheapest but could go on my possible list I guess

Even though SOGEA uses the existing FTTC infrastructure, would I at some point need an engineer to come in & do something? Openreach use the terms FTTC and SOGEA interchangeably.

As some ISPs with traditional landlines included now will offer a VoIP alternative after the switchoff & some won't, it all seems a bit inconsistent.

Hence wondering about a standalone VoIP as a happy medium and keep my existing landline if I can run them alongside one another without problems.

[Iota]

Even though SOGEA uses the existing FTTC infrastructure, would I at some point need an engineer to come in & do something? Openreach use the terms FTTC and SOGEA interchangeably.

As some ISPs with traditional landlines included now will offer a VoIP alternative after the switchoff & some won't, it all seems a bit inconsistent.

Hence wondering about a standalone VoIP as a happy medium and keep my existing landline if I can run them alongside one another without problems.

From my limited understanding, SoGEA basically uses the same wiring as FTTC with the same limitations to speed. The only difference I can see is that you no longer have the option for an analogue phone line and it has to be an IP based phone.

https://www.btwholesale.com/assets/d...-broadband.pdf

That might explain it a little better. You'll be covered on the "digital" switchover from analogue phones to IP based solutions, however it looks like you can't run both side by side from what I can discern. From my own experience of switching over from analogue to digital and from FTTC to FTTP, it hasn't been perfect. Delays and miscommunication between BT and OpenReach (and read this as OpenReach were the REAL issue here). However with that said, it's been rock solid since installation aside from a faulty handset which BT swapped over within a couple of days for free.

Personally I would wait for FTTP to become available to see what offers are around at that time as companies try to migrate people over from FTTC to FTTP, you'll probably be able to save a fair bit as providers compete trying to get market share. MoneySavingExpert is a useful site to see what's available in your area if you're not set on NOW Broadband, including searching for which social tariffs are available if you qualify. May be worth looking at.

[sammyc]

Ta much

I will keep looking into all the options. I have no particular reason to stay with Now so started looking at packages with broadband and VoIP included, such as zen, among others, just to get ahead of the switchoff side of things - Now don't have a VoIP option anyway.

The only reason I say cheap is just on the general principle of not paying for anything you don't strictly need or want, ie cheapo broadband & a landline has suited me fine, on paper I don't need FTTC or upwards so why pay for it.

It's looking like £35 & up is ballpark for FTTC broadband and a digital voice package, unless any standalone VoIP would work ok with ADSL broadband which I very much doubt. So all in all I'd be spending £180 a year more than I am the moment to get much the same thing as I am now*, which goes against the grain

I did wonder whether fibre prices levelling down might be a thing so that's definitely worth bearing in mind thanks.

*or was, before my Now broadband went up and the free inclusive calls stopped being free. I haven't negotiated with them yet, which is an option, but it's still just postponing dealing with switchoff.

[DanceswithUnix]

AIUI SoGEA is just a admin or database tweak, with no technical change to how your services are delivered.

Traditionally the phone number was everything, it was like the main database key. A piece of copper must have a phone number allocated to it before they can do things like "add adsl to this phone number".

SoGEA switches that to the copper pair, so now you don't have to have a phone number before they can allocate other services. That allows things like getting vdsl on a second copper pair you have coming to the house without paying for voice.

I can very much recommend Zen, their customer service has been very good. I've only needed it because of Openreach breaking things ofc, so it will be interesting to see how things go now that I have a Cityfibre last mile connection. So far so good

The router Zen sent me is a FritzBox which can do adsl, vdsl and fibre connections and has the VOIP hardware in it to drive an analogue phone. One thing I never did find out is if it copes if I plug in our extension wiring which used to have 3 analogue phones. Guess I'll never know now I dropped the landline number.

I've seen things on the web showing how to turn an old Raspberry Pi into a VOIP phone exchange, you don't actually have to get your ISP involved in the process.

[Iota]

I haven't negotiated with them yet, which is an option, but it's still just postponing dealing with switchoff.

It's definitely worth negotiating with them, I've always managed to "save" money regardless of the provider. The only exception was SKY when I went out of contract as they didn't even respond, which is the reason I swapped provider and went FTTP with someone else. It was cheaper to switch to FTTP than remain on the FTTC with SKY.

[sammyc]

AIUI SoGEA is just a admin or database tweak, with no technical change to how your services are delivered.

Traditionally the phone number was everything, it was like the main database key. A piece of copper must have a phone number allocated to it before they can do things like "add adsl to this phone number".

SoGEA switches that to the copper pair, so now you don't have to have a phone number before they can allocate other services. That allows things like getting vdsl on a second copper pair you have coming to the house without paying for voice.

I can very much recommend Zen, their customer service has been very good. I've only needed it because of Openreach breaking things ofc, so it will be interesting to see how things go now that I have a Cityfibre last mile connection. So far so good

The router Zen sent me is a FritzBox which can do adsl, vdsl and fibre connections and has the VOIP hardware in it to drive an analogue phone. One thing I never did find out is if it copes if I plug in our extension wiring which used to have 3 analogue phones. Guess I'll never know now I dropped the landline number.

I've seen things on the web showing how to turn an old Raspberry Pi into a VOIP phone exchange, you don't actually have to get your ISP involved in the process.

Thanks, all v useful info Nice to have another zen recommendation up my sleeve.

It's definitely worth negotiating with them, I've always managed to "save" money regardless of the provider. The only exception was SKY when I went out of contract as they didn't even respond, which is the reason I swapped provider and went FTTP with someone else. It was cheaper to switch to FTTP than remain on the FTTC with SKY.

I may still do this in the interim. (Doesn't really help when researching, the extent to which some of these companies are entangled, ie Now owned by Sky, Shell's customers due to be 'sold' to TalkTalk by Octopus, etc etc).

..
That might explain it a little better. You'll be covered on the "digital" switchover from analogue phones to IP based solutions, however it looks like you can't run both side by side from what I can discern...

Could you clarify what you mean by this - I am sort of tempted to trial a VoIP service alongside a 1yr broadband only ISP (be that Now or whoever), and see how that goes. As your existing landline service needs to be running for number porting purposes, and that "in the interim, you will effectively have two phone numbers to use, your original landline number & your new, temporary number" (says one firm's faq), I don't see why that can't be strung out until the switchoff. Unless I'm just misinterpreting your point, sorry.

As to porting a landline number from ADSL, I have read further and yes, that will put a definite question mark over whether porting is worth it unfortunately.

[Iota]

Could you clarify what you mean by this - I am sort of tempted to trial a VoIP service alongside a 1yr broadband only ISP (be that Now or whoever), and see how that goes. As your existing landline service needs to be running for number porting purposes, and that "in the interim, you will effectively have two phone numbers to use, your original landline number & your new, temporary number" (says one firm's faq), I don't see why that can't be strung out until the switchoff. Unless I'm just misinterpreting your point, sorry.

You'll be covered for the digital switchover of the landline (where they turn off the analogue system) because you'll already be on an IP based solution. As to having two landline numbers, looking at on the BT link, if you go over to SoGEA then the analogue landline isn't available.

I think that you can have a separate VoIP service in addition to any current analogue landline service, but see no reason why you would need to do this as you would be paying for two distinct services surely? When your analogue landline does eventually go, then you should be able to port that number over to any separate VoIP service should you choose to do so. From what I've read, swapping to SoGEA you would be porting that number over anyway.

[sammyc]

Ah ok (first bit) thanks for the followup. Yes I wasn't thinking of two analogue lines, just the one of each, as per your 2nd paragraph. I realize it's not the most streamlined setup.. but if porting my existing number is going to be awkward whatever I do, I'll be glad of the time to pass a new number on and just generally see how VoIP works out. Then make the decision as to fibre + digital voice bundle or stick with SoGEA and separate VoIP. So for now I'd take out a cheap broadband deal with PAYG calls, and basically just use the landline for incoming, and backup or whatever, and to hang onto the number.

Not a final final decision as yet anyway - thanks again for the input

[Iota]

You're more than welcome, I know I was pulling my hair out when looking at my options