Need Advice on Building a New PC

[GSte]

£64.50 isn't that much for a PSU. The Corsair unit is being recommended because it's better to have too much power than not enough, will allow room for future expansion, is relatively cheap, is good quality (made by Seasonic) and has a 5 year warranty.

[Andaho]

I swear thats what I said.

When its PAIRED it runs effectively at 667

Christ...

Sorry, I didn't mean to wind you up... but read back and follow the conversation further to see that your statement is STILL incorrect.

[Sprite]

Sorry, I didn't mean to wind you up... but read back and follow the conversation further to see that your statement is STILL incorrect.

How does your version:

DDR means that it performs 2 operations per clock cycle, and the clock is 333MHz - so effectively 667MHz

Make my version:

DDR 667 means its dual channel compatible and when it's paired up it runs at 667 MHz, so on it's own it would run at 333MHz

Wrong ?

Seriously, point it out...

Is it because I ommited the word *effectively* ?

[Andaho]

How does your version:

DDR means that it performs 2 operations per clock cycle, and the clock is 333MHz - so effectively 667MHz

Make my version:

DDR 667 means its dual channel compatible and when it's paired up it runs at 667 MHz, so on it's own it would run at 333MHz

Wrong ?

Seriously, point it out...

Is it because I ommited the word *effectively* ?

Now I'll wait for someone else to correct him

[GSte]

The difference is that you were saying that 'dual channel' is what gave an effective speed of 667, whereas its the 'DDR' that gives it this effective speed. The ram transmits data on the rising and falling edges of the clock cycle as andaho says, but it's a small point and certainly doesn't justify being rude to you

[Sprite]

Oh.

Bah, easy to confuse the two, you understand what I meant.

And to be honest, **** off do I know "jack" about RAM

I should probably edit at this point that I am extremely annoyed as Im trying to play CS on a Virgin broadband line and minimized to come and find this, so yeah sorry

[Andaho]

Can anyone say anything about the Asus case, and about Asus cases generally? (whether good or bad)

Yeah, I'm looking for someone to comment on that too, I've spent most of today just looking at different cases!

[Lanky123]

Change the subject away from RAM to prevent .

If your not overclocking a g33 motherboard might be ok for you, although as others have mentioned it wont have as many features.

[Andaho]

Oh.

Bah, easy to confuse the two, you understand what I meant.

And to be honest, **** off do I know "jack" about RAM

Yes I do understand what you meant, but it's wrong. Here, watch this - http://www.corsair.com/memory_basics/index.html

[GSte]

Yes I do understand what you meant, but it's wrong. Here, watch this - http://www.corsair.com/memory_basics/index.html

Okay, enough bashing, he made a mistake, big deal. Get back to the point of your thread or close it and start a ram one...

[Andaho]

Okay, enough bashing, he made a mistake, big deal. Get back to the point of your thread or close it and start a ram one...

Sorry Daniel - it wasn't even your posts that got me so worked up about the whole ram thing, But I'm crap at explaining things, because I'm an Asperger (it affects communication skills - you can't tell it so much on here, but in person I 'umm' and 'err' all the time lol). I was just trying to explain the best I could, and was adamant at correcting you because people beleive what they read! - and it's not a small difference, if things worked the way you were suggesting, memory would be half the speed. And I wasn't posting that link to corsair memory basics as an insult... it is a really good presentation and an easy way to learn/refresh yourself about memory.

[GSte]

It is a good link

[Agent]

Thats wrong too *sigh*. If you have a CPU with a FSB of 1333MHz, if the memory is running slower than 1333MHz, then the memory is being a bottleneck! If using 2 sticks of 667MHz in dual channel mode, that is 1333MHz. If you were to use 2x533MHz in dual channel mode, it would only be running at 1066MHz and therefore being a bottleneck to the CPU FSB - also if you were just using 1 stick of 1066MHz DDR, that would be a bottleneck for a 1333MHz FSB.

Before anyone else posts to tell me I'm wrong, do your research first please!

I've also heard from the best, that the best overclocks are done with syncronising the CPU FSB to the memory frequency - that's the only use for extreme memory = extreme overclocking.

Andaho, with all due respect, your posts are making little sense.
Lets just take a look at some of the comments off you so far.

Opening post…

AM: Need Advice - again as I'm not overclocking, if I get a 1333MHz FSB processor, is there going to be a significant advantage to paying almost double for 800MHz over 667MHz? Because 667MHz dual channel = 1333MHz?

You posted this today only a matter of hours ago, thinking that ‘dual channel’ somehow altered the operating frequency of the bus, which it doesn’t.
Single channel '667' RAM would still be 1333 on a quad pumped bus.

Yes I know DDR runs at Double Data Rate, but also being dual channel, meaning it runs at double the speed again correct? - thats the whole point in dual channel? - similar to Raid Striping?

The RAID analogy is common with people who do not understand how the RAM operates, and specifically the technical differences between single channel and dual channel. Dual channel operates NOTHING like RAID, and making this assumption clearly illustrates that you do not understand why.

You then link a thread you have made on another forum where you are asking basic questions about how RAM operates, trying to grasp the difference between quad pumped buses, and how dual DDR effects them.

So after asking people for HELP, you then go and try to correct them only a few hours after not even understanding the basics of how RAM works in today’s systems. Not only that, but come out with the comment “You obviously don't know jack about memory” – Not too friendly when you come here asking for help, is it?

FACT: The benefit from Dual Chanel RAM is minimal, and almost always in single figures.
Go and look at the benchmarks in various reviews and users experiences in forums before *sighing* and “correcting” someone else.

Thats wrong too *sigh*. If you have a CPU with a FSB of 1333MHz, if the memory is running slower than 1333MHz, then the memory is being a bottleneck!

So, the CPU is operating at one frequency and the memory at another and there will be a bottleneck between the two. That’s somewhat stating the obvious there.
Furthermore, even if it is the ‘bottleneck’ Do you know how this translates into real world usage in percentage terms, and in what applications these would effect (synthetic to one side here)?

And finaly on this point - did you even READ my post?
I was talking about the gain of Dual DDR being minimal in almost all situations - how exactly does going on about bus speeds of the CPU and memory being different relate to my post in any way what so ever?

If using 2 sticks of 667MHz in dual channel mode, that is 1333MHz

Again Using one stick in non dual DDR mode is 1333MHZ Q-FSB. Dual DDR has nothing to do with frequency. It alters the available theoretical bandwidth available, nothing more.

Your posts are coming across as pretty rude sometimes mate. Just chill a little bit will ya?

[0iD]

EDIT: nvm, read that post completely wrong

BTW how is the Coolermaster iGreen 600w PSU ? THinking of getting one myself as my Hiper is dragging my performance down (My PCMark 05 score is half of equivalent systems and my PSU is the only thing I can think of messing things up)

All I can say is it works fine, seems to do well in reviews.

[Andaho]

Andaho, with all due respect, your posts are making little sense...

Yes I am sorry, I know I am making little sense, and I don't know where to start to reply to any of that... I know with general real-world tasks dual channel provides very little advantage - but the same can be said about dual core processors. The reason I used RAID as an example, as when doing tasks such as working with large files, the advantage is there in all it's full glory. - which is similar to raid in that aspect isn't it?

So you've done very well at pointing out everything I've been wrong about in my struggle to explain the world as I see it... so now what have I been right about? - I have just been trying to correct misconceptions that other posters have made, which you have actually done none of trying to explain how I am seeing RAM incorrectly?

And it hasn't been a few hours since I was doing my research on how modern RAM works on the other forum, that thread is just over a month old.

So how about instead of telling me that I'm wrong here, here and here... you've done little to explain how I am wrong or telling any of us how it actually does work? - and I find that insulting! - at least I've tried, even if it hasn't been with a cool head.

I only update myself on hardware every time I need to build a new PC - but I like to be thorough and understand what I'm buying.

[GSte]

This is a very complex topic. As I understand it, theoretically memory should ideally have the same bus speed as the cpu, but the efficiency of this relationship is reduced by cas latency. This signifies the number of CPU clock cycles that will pass before a read operation begins. So the ram and CPU will not really be operating at exactly the same speed unless the ram has a cas latency of 1. To attempt to improve the situation the CPU has cache memory that attempts to predict and store commonly used data to reduce this bottleneck. But the bottleneck is further increased by the ram subtimings. Other devices attempt to reduce the bottleneck which I have heard about but don't really understand, pipelining?

Rather than trying to understand all this though it would be more profitable and much simpler just to look at benchmarks of the performance differences of ram at different speeds and latencies.

I repeat though that this bottleneck is nothing compared to the amount a HDD bottlenecks a system, so you shouldn't be worrying about it too much