Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 17 to 32 of 124

Thread: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

  1. #17
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I'm a Jessie
    Posts
    35,185
    Thanks
    3,126
    Thanked
    3,179 times in 1,926 posts
    • Zak33's system
      • Storage:
      • Kingston HyperX SSD, Hitachi 1Tb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia 1050
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster 800w
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT01
      • Operating System:
      • Win10
      • Internet:
      • Zen FTC uber speedy

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    OK: Theory...bust is apart if you so wish

    New hard drive looks like this, though the platter count may vary from 1 to 4 (I guess)



    Now, let's say 100 people across the world, with XP, all decided to partition their new drives: 1/4 and 3/4. The FIRST partition that they make is 1/4 of the size and the rest is the second. In every case the drive has 2 platters.

    How does the Hard drive look? The red sections are the 1/4 of the volume.

    ---------------------------------------
    Does it split the partiton with a WEDGE on both platters, looking like this?


    --------------------
    or
    ------------------

    Does is partition the drive by using half of one of the platters as a SPLIT?


    -------------------
    or
    -------------------

    Does it use the outter RING of ONE PLATTER?


    -------------------
    or
    -------------------
    Is it totally RANDOM?


    ------------------
    or, as I think it does....
    -----------------

    Does is use the OUTER of BOTH?


    ------------------
    (or
    does it do it another way?)

    The outter edges are not just moving faster, but for a set size will also be NARROWER than further into the platter, meaning the read heads don't need to move so far, and with the extra speed the platters are travelling at, the data speed increase is a given.


    QUESTION: Does XP always do it that way? Are the HDD's themselves hardcoded to start at the outter edge? Am I just flukey, or is it a useable tool for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

  2. #18
    HEXUS webmaster Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    14,283
    Thanks
    293
    Thanked
    841 times in 476 posts

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    The internals of a disk's operation will be completely abstracted from the operating system. (edit: that is assuming the OS doesn't care about CHS/LBA addressing all that much)

    All the operating system can do is address the drive. How those addresses relate to physical positions on the disk is entirely up to the manufacturer.

    But this is how it will work:

    Nearby addresses will be physically close to each other. The time to move something versus the time to do something electronically is huge... electronically is so much quicker.

    So before moving the read/write heads, it'll swap from one platter head to another.

    That makes Zak33's final image more or less the right one.

    I'm now going to plug a spare SATA drive I have into a RAID controller and run some IOMeter tests on it.

    Back in 20.
    Last edited by Steve; 14-08-2007 at 04:43 PM.
    PHP Code:
    $s = new signature();
    $s->sarcasm()->intellect()->font('Courier New')->display(); 

  3. #19
    A shadowy flight. MSIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    London/Herts
    Posts
    3,413
    Thanks
    394
    Thanked
    229 times in 168 posts
    • MSIC's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASRock H170M-ITX
      • CPU:
      • Core i5 6500
      • Memory:
      • 2 x 4GB Corsair Veng DDR4 2666
      • Storage:
      • 240GB SSD (boot) +1TB Samsung F3
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ASUS GeForce 750Ti
      • PSU:
      • Silverstone 450W ST455F
      • Case:
      • Silverstone SG06-450
      • Operating System:
      • Win10
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell S2309W
      • Internet:
      • PlusNet FiberTTC

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    It'll either be the outer ring of one platter, or the very bottom drawing, but i'd be curious to know which (and indeed how or whether a utility such as partition magic could force some particular use).
    I'm commenting on an internet forum. Your facts hold no sway over me.
    - Another poster, from another forum.

    System as shown, plus: Microsoft Wireless mobile 4000 mouse and Logitech Illuminated keyboard.
    Sennheiser RS160 wireless headphones. Creative Gigaworks T40 SII. My wife.
    My Hexus Trust

  4. #20
    Efficiency freak Queelis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Vilnius, Lithuania
    Posts
    857
    Thanks
    134
    Thanked
    78 times in 72 posts
    • Queelis's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX
      • CPU:
      • AMD Ryzen 5 3600
      • Memory:
      • Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR4 32 GB 3200 CL16
      • Storage:
      • Adata XPG SX8200 PRO 512 GB, Toshiba E300 3TB, WD Green 1TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Palit Geforce RTX 2060 Super
      • PSU:
      • BeQuiet PurePower 10 600W
      • Case:
      • be quiet! Silent Base 601
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Professional
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell P2414H
      • Internet:
      • Gbit

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33 View Post
    was it deliberate?

    Can you install the same game on both partitiond and time the boot loads times and the level load times?
    Well, yes, it was deliberate, but there are some issues.

    First one the hard drive being 12gig, makes it difficult to install games

    Second, the partitions' have had their space reallocated, so that may have messed things up.

  5. #21
    Senior Amoeba iranu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    On the dinner table. Blechh!
    Posts
    3,535
    Thanks
    111
    Thanked
    156 times in 106 posts
    • iranu's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Maximus Gene VI
      • CPU:
      • 4670K @4.3Ghz
      • Memory:
      • 8Gb Samsung Green
      • Storage:
      • 1x 256Gb Samsung 830 SSD 2x640gb HGST raid 0
      • Graphics card(s):
      • MSI R9 390
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX620W Modular
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master Silencio 352
      • Operating System:
      • Win 7 ultimate 64 bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • 23" DELL Ultrasharp U2312HM
      • Internet:
      • 16mb broadband

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    I find this quite intruiging. I'd love to know. Outter ring of one or both platters would seem the most logical. I'm gonna go googling for the answer.
    "Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.

  6. #22
    Gentoo Ricer
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    11,048
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    944 times in 704 posts
    • aidanjt's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Strix Z370-G
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7-8700K
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Corsiar LPX 3000C15
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 960 EVO
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX 2.0
      • PSU:
      • EVGA G3 750W
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define C Mini
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus MG279Q
      • Internet:
      • 240mbps Virgin Cable

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    If we assume that hard drive manufacturers know how to make HDDs perform at their best (and I think it's fair that they do), the bottom image would be pretty much how hard drives operate across the board. Clearly it's optimal to do concurrent reads across all the platters at once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

  7. #23
    HEXUS webmaster Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    14,283
    Thanks
    293
    Thanked
    841 times in 476 posts

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    Reading a little more, I expect LBA-48 will be used at the lowest level of the OS. LBA addresses are arranged such that as the address increases you move through the sectors... ie around the disk. Once you've gone around you change head (onto another platter/side) and then over all the sectors again.

    Once you've exhausted all that you have to move to a different cylinder... that's the bit that requires physical movement of the heads, hence why you do it less often for sequential reading

    So yes, the last image is the 'correct' one.
    PHP Code:
    $s = new signature();
    $s->sarcasm()->intellect()->font('Courier New')->display(); 

  8. Received thanks from:

    Zak33 (14-08-2007)

  9. #24
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I'm a Jessie
    Posts
    35,185
    Thanks
    3,126
    Thanked
    3,179 times in 1,926 posts
    • Zak33's system
      • Storage:
      • Kingston HyperX SSD, Hitachi 1Tb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia 1050
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster 800w
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT01
      • Operating System:
      • Win10
      • Internet:
      • Zen FTC uber speedy

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    If we assume that hard drive manufacturers know how to make HDDs perform at their best (and I think it's fair that they do), the bottom image would be pretty much how hard drives operate across the board. Clearly it's optimal to do concurrent reads across all the platters at once.
    ok...well I agree, and I think its prolly right...BUT to take advantage of this, if you follow my basic sumise, and create the FIRST partition as about 1/5 to 1/4 of the drive's capacity, and use that partition for your speed related data, you will probably come outr very well.

    QUESTION: Why did I spend all this time doing this?

    Because I have been using a Raptor for over a year now, and I love it, but it gets slower after it's about 1/3 full, and I always need another drive for Data, films, music etc. Plus I've gone SFF and dont have rom for 4 or 5 drives. Most people use 320 or 250 gig drives as they are best value at the mo. But to have a fast boot drive is great.

    So I wondered: Can a £50 hard disk perform nearly as fast as a Raptor and a spare disk? So I got a 400 gig AAKS WD drive and tried. And to be honest..it's not far short. When the Raptor has a fresh install on it, it's lightning, but it soon slows when a couple of games go in too, plus all the XP updates etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

  10. #25
    Senior Amoeba iranu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    On the dinner table. Blechh!
    Posts
    3,535
    Thanks
    111
    Thanked
    156 times in 106 posts
    • iranu's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Maximus Gene VI
      • CPU:
      • 4670K @4.3Ghz
      • Memory:
      • 8Gb Samsung Green
      • Storage:
      • 1x 256Gb Samsung 830 SSD 2x640gb HGST raid 0
      • Graphics card(s):
      • MSI R9 390
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX620W Modular
      • Case:
      • Cooler Master Silencio 352
      • Operating System:
      • Win 7 ultimate 64 bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • 23" DELL Ultrasharp U2312HM
      • Internet:
      • 16mb broadband

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    I have the answer!!

    Zone Effects: Modern hard disks use zoned bit recording to allow more data to be stored on the outer tracks of the hard disk than the inner ones. This directly impacts the media transfer rate of the disk when reading one zone of the disk as opposed to another; see here for details. Hard disks fill their space starting from the outer tracks and working inward. This means that if you split a hard disk into three partitions of equal size, the first partition will have the highest transfer rate, the second will be lower, and the third lower still. Therefore, you can put the more important files on the faster partitions if transfer performance is important to you.
    So yes Zak you were right and actually had evidence from nero confirming it.

    From Storage review. A site I had bookmarked from over 2 years ago.
    "Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.

  11. #26
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I'm a Jessie
    Posts
    35,185
    Thanks
    3,126
    Thanked
    3,179 times in 1,926 posts
    • Zak33's system
      • Storage:
      • Kingston HyperX SSD, Hitachi 1Tb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia 1050
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster 800w
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT01
      • Operating System:
      • Win10
      • Internet:
      • Zen FTC uber speedy

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    So yes, the last image is the 'correct' one.
    Thank you for looking and confirming

    The next question is: Can a cheap ass drive perform better by creating this PARTITION on the outter edges, and so force the system to always have it's speed-orientated data in that fast zone?

    In fact, without going mad (for which I am known, sadly) on the subect, can a cheap ass £54 drive
    http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=567858

    compete, daily, with a Raptor http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=410986 for £95, AND give the end user a spare 300+ gig of space?

    Prolly not quite, but it's going to be a close call and it's worth helping people get the most from thier drives.

    Wonder if DR can get a clear topped Raptor to watch the head action in?

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

  12. #27
    HEXUS webmaster Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    14,283
    Thanks
    293
    Thanked
    841 times in 476 posts

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    OK, I've done some quick testing.

    I used the IOMeter setup detailed in the second table on this page.

    I setup a 20GB partition at the beginning of the disk, then a 190GB partition in the middle, and a 30GB one at the end.

    This was on an old Maxtor 250GB SATA drive, 7200rpm with 16MiB cache.

    I tested the two end partitions with 1GB test files in IOMeter.

    Here are the results:

    Code:
           First partition     Last partition
    Read:       67.23MB/s        44.20MB/s
    Write:      67.69MB/s        44.51MB/s
    General:    16.86MB/s        13.46MB/s
    The "last partition" is a third slower at sustained reading and writing. And we're not even at the end of the disk, assuming that the test file appeared towards the beginning of the 30GB partition.

    For "general" performance testing, there is more randomness. That levels the playing field a little, giving a deficit of less than a fifth, because there's more physical movement to access data, slowing both cases down significantly.

    So we can say the following things:

    • Partitions start towards the outside of the disk and work inwards
    • This is supported by what we know about LBA addressing used by disks.
    • So we can assume LBA address 0 is at the very edge of the disk, on one of its platters, in one of its sectors.
    • Because disks spin at a constant angular velocity, data can be transferred quicker to/from the outer edges, as they will be moving quicker over the read/write heads.
    • The above is only true where ZBR (Zoned Bit Recording) is used. This puts more data in the outer sectors of a disk, because outer sectors have a bigger surface area. All disks use ZBR, unless you're using a 5.25" 4MB drive from the 80s.
    • For sequential reading/writing, there can be a big performance difference between the outside and inside of a disk.


    This isn't ground breaking news, because if you do an HDTach run across a full disk, a lot of the time you'll see it tail off as you get further along the disk.

    Bottom line is, if you can keep your more frequently used data towards the beginning of the disk, it should read quicker.

    De-fragmenting tries to do this to an extent, but controlling partition size is also a way to force the issue.

    However, you should probably let the OS stay at the beginning, because some of the primitive bits of an OS that are used to do the initial boot strapping can't always see the whole disk. (There are workarounds to this, however).

    edit: I should also add that if I had a Raptor to test against, it would likely massively own the Maxtor in the "General" test.
    Last edited by Steve; 14-08-2007 at 05:23 PM.
    PHP Code:
    $s = new signature();
    $s->sarcasm()->intellect()->font('Courier New')->display(); 

  13. #28
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I'm a Jessie
    Posts
    35,185
    Thanks
    3,126
    Thanked
    3,179 times in 1,926 posts
    • Zak33's system
      • Storage:
      • Kingston HyperX SSD, Hitachi 1Tb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia 1050
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster 800w
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT01
      • Operating System:
      • Win10
      • Internet:
      • Zen FTC uber speedy

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    This isn't ground breaking news, because if you do an HDTach run across a full disk, a lot of the time you'll see it tail off as you get further along the disk.

    Bottom line is, if you can keep your more frequently used data towards the beginning of the disk, it should read quicker.

    De-fragmenting tries to do this to an extent, but controlling partition size is also a way to force the issue.
    True, in fact years ago Norton had a Utility for Win98 to move the SwapFile to the outter edge. I'm deliberately creating the partition for both reasons.....rotational speed AND to stop the read heads needing to move laterally, which should ALSO keep the fragmentation down


    Thanks for researching bud. Mine is all sumise and trial and error. So thankyou for puting it into context

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

  14. #29
    Gentoo Ricer
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    11,048
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    944 times in 704 posts
    • aidanjt's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Strix Z370-G
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7-8700K
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Corsiar LPX 3000C15
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 960 EVO
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX 2.0
      • PSU:
      • EVGA G3 750W
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define C Mini
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus MG279Q
      • Internet:
      • 240mbps Virgin Cable

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    This is nothing new really, UNIX admins have been using partitioning strategies for decades, on optimal linux servers, /boot, swap, and root are regularly the first partitions, followed by /var, then /usr/misc., then /home, for the same reasons outlined here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

  15. #30
    HEXUS webmaster Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    14,283
    Thanks
    293
    Thanked
    841 times in 476 posts

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    So let's hammer out partition strategy, shall we?

    How big does your XP partition need to be?

    Mine is 50GB but I reckon 25GB would be fine if I was more prudent with my housekeeping. The OS and applications will be their usual responsive self.

    Next, have a partition appropriately sized for games. This could be quite big if you have a lot of games... many take up a hell of a lot of space these days.

    Then, use the rest for stuff that doesn't need rapid access. Movies, music, backups... none really depend on speed, stick em at the end

    And aidanjt is right, *nix users love their partitions.
    PHP Code:
    $s = new signature();
    $s->sarcasm()->intellect()->font('Courier New')->display(); 

  16. #31
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I'm a Jessie
    Posts
    35,185
    Thanks
    3,126
    Thanked
    3,179 times in 1,926 posts
    • Zak33's system
      • Storage:
      • Kingston HyperX SSD, Hitachi 1Tb
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Nvidia 1050
      • PSU:
      • Coolermaster 800w
      • Case:
      • Silverstone Fortress FT01
      • Operating System:
      • Win10
      • Internet:
      • Zen FTC uber speedy

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    So let's hammer out partition strategy, shall we?

    How big does your XP partition need to be?

    Mine is 50GB but I reckon 25GB would be fine if I was more prudent with my housekeeping. The OS and applications will be their usual responsive self.

    Next, have a partition appropriately sized for games. This could be quite big if you have a lot of games... many take up a hell of a lot of space these days.
    nope. Not quite. Most people have 2 HDD's not one.

    Have XP on the small fast partition of one, but keep it a sensible size so that other apps, such as PaintShop Pro, Office, Skype etc open like lightning. Use the rest of that drive for data, films

    Have the second drive partitioned as well, and use the fast one for games, making it big enough to never run out of space. Use the rest for data, films etc.

    Get clever and store stuff on one drive that will be acessed by the other drive..ie movies on the large patition and the movie player on the small partition on the other drive

    Or am I being anal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

  17. Received thanks from:

    MSIC (15-08-2007)

  18. #32
    HEXUS webmaster Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    14,283
    Thanks
    293
    Thanked
    841 times in 476 posts

    Re: How to Speed up your Hard Disk :-) (Zak's Partition Theory)

    Sounds good, but movie player/movies will make no difference.

    Image/movie editor vs. scratch disk will though. As will page file

    (now I'm being anal)
    PHP Code:
    $s = new signature();
    $s->sarcasm()->intellect()->font('Courier New')->display(); 

  19. Received thanks from:

    MSIC (15-08-2007)

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Hard Disk Recovery
    By Kezzer in forum PC Hardware and Components
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 16-10-2007, 08:08 AM
  2. disk partition
    By jagster in forum Help! Quick Relief From Tech Headaches
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 14-05-2006, 03:15 PM
  3. What hard drive partition, and how to set it up.
    By blockers in forum PC Hardware and Components
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 15-04-2005, 11:30 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •