Need help in attempt to build a gaming PC £700 - £1000

I joined this site today so hi everyone.

I know a bit about PC's but not so clever when it comes to the hardware. Im looking to build a PC for the following:

Gaming online
Basic office applications e.g Word, Excel etc
3D modelling in CAD
Rendering
Playing Music
Wireless connection

So far I have been looking in to motherboards and processors on various sites, but with all the specs and makes around I'm getting a little confused as to what items to choose. I have also come across a thread on this which StaffsMike suggested buying the following which should cost between £800 - £1000:


CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (dont bother with extreme and all that mess)
HSF: Scythe Ninja/infinity or Thermalright ultima 90 Heat sink for Q6600
Motherboard: Abit IP-35 pro motherboard ( for overclocking)
RAM: 4GB of DDR2 PC6400 (enough to overclock the Q6600 to 3.6GHz)
4GB GeIL Black Dragon DDR2 PC2-6400 (5-5-5-15) Dual Channel kit (2x2GB)
i like geil but OCZ, corsair, crucial, gskill are all good brands.

Power Supply: Corsair 520W HX Whisper
Graphics: 8800GTX or New 8800GTS (fairly similar performance)
Case: Antec P182 (fantastic for cool and near silent performance)
Or Antec 900 for better cooling and quiet operation.

Hard Drive: Western Digital 500GB AAKS (as many as you think you need)
Optical: Samsung SATA dvd writer.


Do you agree with the above or would you tweak some of the items on the list or go for a totaly different set of hardware? My budget is £700 - £1000. Also I read on thread Intel are bringing out quad core soon, are these out now and wort looking at for my requirements?

I would appreciate any feedback or comments as Im at a loss at the minute. :confused:

You've been lingering obviously ;)

Thats the PC I would have suggested.

In fact.. did you copy and paste that from me? lol

With your budget the Intel Q9450 quad core would be a nice upgrade if you are overclocking.

Hi Mike

Yes I've been lingering :) saw your post on the thread with the guy who had 2k to spend on a gaming pc and your spot on I copied and pasted your comment as it was one of the most informative I've come across.

Wasn't sure know if I needed to tweak any of your list and didn't want to jump in on the other guys thread. But if you think that will run nicely for what I'm looking for than I'll have look around at prices. Think you mentioned scan as a good place to try on the other thread?

If the price is less than I think I might look at getting Intel Q9450 Quad Core. Also thanks for the reply back.

Should be around £225. It will run cooler and overclock better.. well it should.

Scan is very good yes. You can get free delivery after 25 posts here on hexus :)

Graphics card wise I would go for the 8800 GTS 512MB over the GTX not a huge difference in performance but still a ~15% price differential.

If you want even more graphics power you have a couple of options and they are, first the HD 3870 X2 from scan will cost you £270 currently the fastest thing around but you have to be aware that it is efectively 2 HD 3870s in crossfire on a single card. The second option would be to crossfire 2 3870s or SLI 2 8800 GT but you would obviously need a different motherboard for SLI.

On the whole single card solutions offer more predicitable performance so I would probably go with the 8800 GTS but if you want the fastest of the fast then the the HD3870 X2 is the way to go :)

If you do go the Q9450 route, you may want to get some ram that you know will hit 450mhz, If you`re intending to clock it to 3.6ghz (due to the lower multiplier).

Hi again all

Just been looking at the Intel 2 Core Quad and there's 2 versions Retail and OEM from what I have read
I would be best getting the OEM as im going to be over clocking. Is this correct?

OEM doesn't come with an Intel Cooler and is only 1 year warranty as opposed to 3.

If you are buying an after market cooler then the OEM is fine.

I usually find the easiest way to decide on a spec is to start with the basics. Leave choosing a CPU and Graphics card until last, it makes things a lot easier if you know exactly how much you have to spend on them.

As a quick example this lot will set you back about £400:

Abit IP-35 Dark Raider
4GB Corsair PC2-6400
500GB Maxtor (if you need that much storage space)
Samsung SATA DVD-RW
Corsair HX-520
Antec P182
Scythe Ninja

Once you have a base down it gives you more of an idea as to which processors and graphics cards you can afford. With the example i gave above you'd be looking at low-end quad core processors and either the 8800GTX or 3870X2 graphics card.

By the way, do you need an OS, Monitor, Speakers, Keyboard or Mouse? I'd choose those before the CPU and GPU too, decent peripherals make more of a difference than a couple of hundred Mhz! :)

don't forget the price of windows

and the price of "accessories" like keyboard, mouse, speakers, monitor

Everyone is building the same computer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 999tigger

Everyone is building the same computer.

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Everything is happening just as I planned..

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA

But in all honestly there are subtle differences as time goes on but in all honesty there are a only a few logical and sensible components to buy for certain budgets.

I can't let people spend £2000 on a PC where 90% of the performance can be obtained from £800.

The budget was excluding monitor, mouse, keyboad etc. Although I think im gonna go with somthing similar to Iiyama Pro Lite E431S 17'' spec:

Screen size: 17'', Technology: TFT active matrix, Brightness: 250 cd/m², Contrast ratio: 450:1, Dot pitch: 0.26mm, Maximum refresh rate: 75Hz

Dont want to spend too much on a screen now will invest in a better one at a later date.

Also was looking at the 8800GTS graphics cards but couldnt find one 512mb DDR2 but DDR3 dual DVI overclocked. Is there such a thing as 8800GTS graphics card 512mb DDR2. Sorry is this sounds like a bit of infant question, It's just Im assuming if its DDR3 that will change the spec advised earlier to 4gb of DDR3 Corsair or am I wrong?

The graphics memory and system memory are totally different.

Graphics memory should really be stated GDDR2/3. You can mix and match RAM and graphics like that to your hearts content. Some are GDDR4 now :)

All sounds very shiny to me :)

If you can wait for the new quad do so. That is all :) Enjoy

Talk about convergence of builds eh?

I do think that X-Fi Xtreme Gamer has it's place in an entertainment build.

Thanks for the post back all

Staffsmike I knew I would make a school boy error on the Ram, been a long day. Found the card eventually the January Asus GeForce 8800 GTS 512 and seems reasonably priced.

Now its just the headache of pricing the rest up :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Webby

Graphics card wise I would go for the 8800 GTS 512MB over the GTX not a huge difference in performance but still a ~15% price differential.

If you want even more graphics power you have a couple of options and they are, first the HD 3870 X2 from scan will cost you £270 currently the fastest thing around but you have to be aware that it is efectively 2 HD 3870s in crossfire on a single card. The second option would be to crossfire 2 3870s or SLI 2 8800 GT but you would obviously need a different motherboard for SLI.

On the whole single card solutions offer more predicitable performance so I would probably go with the 8800 GTS but if you want the fastest of the fast then the the HD3870 X2 is the way to go :)

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no your wrong, the ultra is the fastest card out at the moment

That's Hexus's conclusion, but not agreed across all reviews. It's a close call, at worst, I'd give it a tie, and that's ignoring the price differential. Firingsquad suggests that the Ultra tends to perform better in DX10, whereas the X2 in DX9. If that's the case then you can argue two ways: the Ultra is 'better' since it plays newer games better, or the X2 is better, because there are far more DX9 games than DX10 games. Since I am avoiding DX10 games now (no Vista, and DX10 games are far from hitting 60fps @1900x1200 even with an Ultra), then the X2 would make more sense between the two. Your mileage and budget may vary.

X2 would get my money over an Ultra at the moment. Given it's price (and it's launch price at that.. thank you AMD :)) it's worth every penny assuming you are looking at high end cards.

ahh i see because over in hardcop the ultra is still the best card to get

One price is taken into account, it's almost a non-brainer (in AMD's favour) unless you give games where the Ultra exceed much higher weighting in your assessments. In Anandtech's review, the X2 is definitely seen as better than the GTS/GTX overall (in fact, winning 8 times out of 9 - losing only in Quake Wars - probably the classic case of nVidia doing well in OpenGL).. and by proxy the Ultra (in a previous review, it puts the Rev 2. GTS almost on par with the Ultra).

Saw a 3870x2 for £260, but can`t find where now, at that price you could buy almost 2 for the price of an Ultra.

Might have been this @ £259 + free delivery, but not in stock....:

BT Shop - MSI Radeon HD3870x2 1GB GDDR3 PCIE 2xDVI 850/1.8GHz (R3870X2T2D1G0C)

I am quite sure it was this one before it went out of stock and the price was bumped: Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK.

yes, it`s more likely I saw it on Scan. Not in the market for one myself, don`t really game, but I do like to keep up with what`s about/£. I can`t see Nvidia`s offering (9800 GX2) beating this card on a simple £/performance ratio. I understand that SLI isn`t as efficient as Xfire (will no doubt, still be faster) & I can`t see Nvidia offering their card for less than £400

I was not aware that SLI was less efficient than Crossfire, and I don't really doubt that the 9800 will be more expensive (for one, if it's two cards stuck together, it'll be more costly to manufacture; secondly, the GTS is more expensive than the 3870 - although one based on the GT could potentially be quite competitive).

Having said that, the X2's performance/cost ratio is impressive for what it is (flagship card which competes with the best tooth for tooth right now for less). But the rev. 2 GTS, which according to Anandtech is comparable to the Ultra (and by proxy, should be able to trades a few hits with the X2), is also much better in terms of performance/cost than the X2.

This prediction is premature and not supported by facts, but short of nVidia messing it up big somewhere, the 9800, if it is 2xG92 stuck together as rumoured, should beat the X2 by a wider margin than the X2 against the Ultra/GTS.

I did say that it "will no doubt, still be faster" & from the couple of articles I`ve read (as I said, I`m no gamer), Xfire appears to scale better than SLI, you can see how well in some games by looking at a single 3870(gddr4) compared to a 3870x2(gddr3).

If by the time the 9800gx2 is launched, you can actually buy a 3870x2 for £250-260 & the 9800GX2 is launched at much over £400 (remember the launch price of the Ultra), you`ll be able to Xfire 2 x 3870x2 for not much more than a single 9800GX2.

Of course 3870x2s in Xfire may not work well, but it will be interesting to see.

A prediction is, by its nature just that & could always be said to be premature. it`s always fun to ponder upon things, when we have no facts - that`s why people still read newspapers.

Thanks guys for all the comments,not been able to spend much time looking into this but now got a bit of spare time to look at in more detail.

The budget I gave is flexible but ideally i would like to build a half decent rig within the price range of £700-£1000 (exluding monitor, mouse keyboard etc) .

Hopefully by Friday I should have my list to post for your much appreciated comments.

For a grand then you can build a very good gaming rig that INCLUDES a monitor.

Just take a 8800GTS G92. It will do ALL you want and is £200 give or take a fiver.

I agree, just look at my spec, all bought just before Xmas, including monitor, keyboard and mouse, for just under £1000.

Also, remember that its easy to end up spending £30+ on a decent keyboard or mouse - I know I did!

Hi again all,

just coming to the end of my list but could do with some advice as to a good gaming keyboard which also has good multi media functions. Also could do with some recommendations on a good gaming mouse too.

Thanks in advance.

I use a saitek eclipse II. It's not strictly a gaming keyboard, doesn't have the extra keys orr anything but has nice back lights and soft touch keys which are very nice and quiet. It does have the basic media control to.

If you have more to spend then the logitech G15 is a very nice :)
Logitech G15 Rev.2 Gaming-Grade Illuminated Keyboard - Retail

Mice is all down to what kind of mouse you like, big, small , different shapes etc..

I like little mice so the razor copperhead etc..

There is the razor deathadder which a lot of people like and is a good quality mouse.

If you like the logitech shape mice then the logitech G5 is a solid performing gaming mouse.

Ok here's my initial list which will more than likely change with your comments:


CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad-Core Q6600 G0 SLACR, 95W, S775, 2.40 GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 8MB Cache, Retail

£170.36

Motherboard: Abit IP-35, Dark Raider, iP35 Express, S 775, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 533/667/800, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX

£72.84

HSF: Scythe Ninja Plus Rev B Fanless HeatPipe Cooler S775/S478/S754/S939/940 c/w 120mm Quiet Fan

£28.78

4GB (2x2GB) Super Talent TwinX DDR2 PC2-6400 (800MHz), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-15

£58.69

PSU: 520W Corsair HX Series Modular PSU, ATX, EPS12V, whisper quiet, 5 year warranty

£63.20

Case: Antec P182 Advanced PERFORMANCE ONE SERIES Super Midi Tower Case, Gun Metal Black

£87.53

Hard drive: 500 GB Western Digital WD5000AAKS Caviar SE16, SATA II, 7200 rpm, 16MB Cache, 8.9 ms

£63.65

Pioneer DVR-215BK 20x DVD±R, 10x DVD±DL, DVD+RW x8/-RW x6, DVD-RAM x12, SATA, Black, OEM

£20.43

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition Retail (PC)

£174.24

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium DVD - Ebuyer

512MB EVGA 8800GTS, PCI-E 2.0 (x16), Mem 1940 MHz, GDDR3, GPU 650 MHz, Dual DVI/HDTV

£199.62

20.1" Asus VW202S, Black, Widescreen, 5 ms, 1680x1050, 2000:1, Speakers

£140.17

Logitech G15 New Rev.2 Gaming Keyboard, USB, Wired, Silver/Black, GamePanel LCD, Illuminated

£52.75

Logitech G5 Laser Mouse, 2000dpi, USB 1.1/2.0, 7 Buttons, Black

£40.64

Total = £1172.90

I wasn't 100% sure on the graphics card and also considered the two below:

1GB Power ColorHD 3870 X2, PCI-E (x16), Mem 1800MHz, GDDR3, GPU 825MHz, Dual DVI/HDTV

£259.66

1GB Sapphire HD3870 X2 PCI-E (x16), Mem 1800MHz, GDDR3, GPU 825MHz, 320 Streams, Dual DVI/HDTV

£274.25


Your comments will be much appreciated and I’m open to suggestions as to similar items which might be cheaper or better. Also have I missed anything?

Forgot to say all parts prices were sourced from Scan except where stated.

If you have the money for it.. I think I would probably get the 3870 X2 but i'm not sure.

At the resolution of that monitor you won't need any more power than the GTS.. to be honest you would get away with the ATi HD3850pro lol.

It's a lot of power in the X2 for not much more money, it's a hard place to be but my head says just get the GTS as it is plenty enough but the X2 might last that bit longer...

That's all useless to you, I can't even make up my mind and it's not my money :D

Is it worth getting an OEM copy of windows?:

Computer hardware and software at amazing prices, available online from Scan Computers UK

It will save you £111, which you can add to your monitor - I`m thinking 24".

I`d also change the Scythe cooler to a TR120/90 or a Tuniq, nitpicking really!

The TR120 is on today only @ Scan & coupled with a Xigmatek fan, will only be about £5 more than the Scythe, best air-cooling for a Quad, probably......

Hi all again

After finally deciding on the list of components I was going to use for my rig, I got cold feet and decided to get a quote from scan for a system built for me to the same spec as I posted on here.

They have quoted me £1,359.77 (inc VAT) where as the parts alone cost (in original spec) £1172.90.
So for the difference of £186.87, I get it built and 2 year warranty.

For a custom made rig does it sound a good price(for my spec)? or should I just brave ordering the parts and building it myself?

Also they increased the spec on two items which I have a couple of questions on these are.

They changed the mobo I had suggested (Dark Raider Abit IP-35) to a ASUS P5N-D Nforce 750i SLI which I've heard there's little point having SLI and that with this board its heard to overclock much past 5%. Is this correct and any comments on this?

The PSU was changed to 620W Corsair HX Series Whisper from 520W. Do I actually need 620W?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by staffsMike

OEM doesn't come with an Intel Cooler and is only 1 year warranty as opposed to 3.

If you are buying an after market cooler then the OEM is fine.

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For the 3 year warrenty alone the few extra quid is well worth it for the retail CPU.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aidanjt

For the 3 year warrenty alone the few extra quid is well worth it for the retail CPU.

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I havn't had a CPU die on me...ever.. so it's fair to say the warranty is going to be pretty useless unless it doesn't work properly out of the box.

That said the extra £10 - £20 isn't much but it's doubtful the chip would die.

u only need one graphics card then, dunno if you edited it but still. I can recommend the asus p5n-d, i have it and no problems yet. Imo, scratch that evga card and spend the same or like £1 less on the BFG OC edition, bfg has 10years warranty even though scan say 999months, evga has 1 year and still scan say 999months xD. Evga give you 1 year if your outside of US?Canada, choice is yours.


edit: also the asus p5n-d supports 16x 16x in sli mode, bios update fixed this i believe its also pci-e 2 and is future proof, more.

Ouch that's a lot for Vista. I suggest getting an Upgrade copy on EBay. You can do a clean install from Upgrade, details of which are now quite easy to Google. Cost ~ £60.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thorsson

Ouch that's a lot for Vista. I suggest getting an Upgrade copy on EBay. You can do a clean install from Upgrade, details of which are now quite easy to Google. Cost ~ £60.

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doing so isn't legit though, the license doesn't allow it. and OEM is cheaper than upgrade

Quote:

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Originally Posted by directhex

doing so isn't legit though, the license doesn't allow it. and OEM is cheaper than upgrade

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WRONG. The License does not disallow it. And OEM is only valid as long as the core of your PC remains unchanged. Not much good for upgraders.

Plus, you're going to need the 64bit version of Vista to make use of that 4Gb ram you're buying....

oem Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium - Licence and media - 1 PC - OEM - DVD - 64-bit - English - Ebuyer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thorsson

WRONG. The License does not disallow it. And OEM is only valid as long as the core of your PC remains unchanged. Not much good for upgraders.

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the word you want is "motherboard". it's valid as long as the motherboard remains unchanged. which is true for most people.

and no, the upgrade license does NOT allow you to use it without a valid preexisting license. check clause 13 of the vista EULA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by microsoft

UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from.

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care to reveal how that fits in with your "it's fine, honest" view of licensing?

OK. So you have to have an appropriate earlier OS to validly use the Upgrade. Get one of those 30Gb Laptop drives with original XP disks and XP COA for £15. Far cheaper to do that than pay full whack.

And no, the word is not motherboard. People have had to ring up when changing an HDD. As for M$ re-activating, it seems to be partly down to pot luck. Some get to keep on using XP despite changing the motherboard. Others have been refused for changing the processor.

Hi again

Ok think im about there now, just one last thing. I've got a bit more cash left so going to opt for the HD3870 X2 instead of the 8800GTS. Just wondered which company was best to go for, Sapphire, Power Color, MIS etc?

Thanks for the help in advance.

Given the choice I think Sapphire are pretty good but I'm so out of the loop with ATi cards.

just look for the ones with the best warranty, thats what i do xD. Sapphire are good as far as i know, havent had an ati card since the 9600Xt was released mind you i skiped a few generations and went straight to an 8800GTS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thorsson

OK. So you have to have an appropriate earlier OS to validly use the Upgrade. Get one of those 30Gb Laptop drives with original XP disks and XP COA for £15. Far cheaper to do that than pay full whack.

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oem licenses are not transferrable

Quote:

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And no, the word is not motherboard. People have had to ring up when changing an HDD. As for M$ re-activating, it seems to be partly down to pot luck. Some get to keep on using XP despite changing the motherboard. Others have been refused for changing the processor.

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why can't people understand the difference between licenses and product activation? an oem license SPECIFICALLY grants you the right to change any component in your pc bar the motherboard (which you can change in the event of failure for an equivalent). let's take our local MS employee's word on this - http://forums.hexus.net/1321416-post47.html

you can reactivate as many times as you like as long as you meet the terms of the license. the terms of the license are met as long as you don't swap the motherboard frivolously. if the person on the phone refuses to reactivate after you change a cpu, correct them on the licensing terms - you've paid for the right to use software under those terms, and they don't have the authority to override the terms. not rocket science.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by directhex

oem licenses are not transferrable

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Yes, but they are upgradeable. And the upgrade is transferable.:devilish:

If you change the motherboard for any reason other than for an out and out failure your licence is gone, and then you can only replace it will a equivilent product so if it was socket 939 you cant replace it with a 775 motherboard as that would be an upgrade. If you can't find a suitable replacement then your licence died with the motherboard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thorsson

Yes, but they are upgradeable. And the upgrade is transferable.:devilish:

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no, it isn't. "To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade.". if you're not licensed to transfer the os being upgraded, you can't transfer the upgrade

if this stuff were legit, you wouldn't be using a bucket of "nudge nudge wink wink" in your replies.