Vista Retail or OEM

[directhex]

EULA. Who actually reads that? All the PC user is concerned about is getting his Windows activated and working again.

would you sign a contract without reading it?

Microsoft are just money grabbers making an OEM and a retail version of their software. Why not just make an OEM and thats that. Of course, Microsoft are short of money aren't they!!

you mean "just retail". oem licenses which aren't BIOS locked are a courtesy to small businesses and hardware enthusiasts - most of the people who use them should be paying for retail, not the reverse. the lower price is a combination of many factors, mostly the move of assorted legal responsibilities from microsoft to the system builder (who should add their own margins on top to claw back the added cost of, for example, tech support that microsoft no longer are responsible for)

As far as i am concerend, i paid good money for my OEM version and i should be able to use it again and again on the 'SAME' pc. Nothing illegal as far as i am concerned. I think that all Microsoft are concerned about is the big pirate people out there.

define "same". and why is it up to you to define "same" and not microsoft? it's their software?

windows is not SOLD. you can't actually BUY windows. you buy a LICENSE to windows - a limited use agreement to use the software under certain terms.

The only people who moan about guys re-using an OEM version is the ones who have forked out for a 'retail' version!!

i only have oem windows at home, because i'm aware of the licensing terms, and made the calculated decision that oem windows was cheaper in the long run than retail. next time i go for a full system upgrade, a new oem license goes on

[Koolpc]

You've been given the opportunity to use an OEM license. It's a perk. It's not the 'standard' way of doing it, it's a possible route that Microsoft have given you. If you want a less restricted license you have to pay for it - it's pretty much the way it works in life.

No, its a way that Microsoft have of getting more money out of the average pc user!!

[306maxi]

And you got the cheek to go on about how wrong it is to re-use / activate an OEM version again and again!!

Oh my god! Tomorrow on the front of the Daily Mail it'll be "DirectHex in CD ripping scandal!"

[directhex]

And you got the cheek to go on about how wrong it is to re-use / activate an OEM version again and again!!

i go on about people lying about it.

unlike some, i'm prepared to admit when what i do is in the wrong, and not try to hide my failings.

[directhex]

No, its a way that Microsoft have of getting more money out of the average pc user!!

average pc users don't install oem windows - they get it pre-installed by a system builder, and don't swap motherboards around for fun

[306maxi]

average pc users don't install oem windows - they get it pre-installed by a system builder, and don't swap motherboards around for fun

I agree. I'm not one of those people who change mobos out for fun and I don't see the attraction of it. PC's are for gaming on or for browsing the net or for using apps and not for spending all your time with your PC in bits. BUT!!!!! I've just built myself a PC (with legitimate Vista licence) and when Nehalem comes out I'm going to build another PC and transfer the licence to that (boo hiss!!!!) and then install Windows Home Server on this PC. Now perhaps it doesn't explicitly state that in the licence but in practice Microsoft will allow me to do that and that I will do.

[Salazaar]

you can only install oem windows on a new computer at time of build

That raises an interesting point I've asked myself before... what exactly constitues a 'new' computer? If I went out and bought a selection of second hand parts off fleabay and the forums, built it up into a PC and then added an OEM copy of Vista, that's a new build right. So how exactly is that different to if I just wiped my old OS and started from scratch on my current rig? As far as I can see, in of its self, I would be building a new PC...?

And just to try and temper some of the arguments going on, as far as I know the main reason for the price difference between OEM releases and Retail is to do with the technical support. MS provides it for retail but the legal responsibility for it is passed on to the manufacturer with the OEM licence. (Sorry Directhex, I just realised you covered this off in one of your earlier posts )

[directhex]

That raises an interesting point I've asked myself before... what exactly constitues a 'new' computer? If I went out and bought a selection of second hand parts off fleabay and the forums, built it up into a PC and then added an OEM copy of Vista, that's a new build right. So how exactly is that different to if I just wiped my old OS and started from scratch on my current rig? As far as I can see, in of its self, I would be building a new PC...?

a very interesting question, especially in cases where the system builder and new user are the same person. you could "bin" the old pc, then the "system builder" could make a refurb machine with a new os on it, as a "new" box. the answer being "the license isn't sufficiently detailed to make a judgement" - though i believe this is allowed, as a number of companies build refurb machines for charity using oem licenses, and microsoft don't want the bad press that comes with telling a charity they have to pay for retail. but this is largely into the realm of conjecture - and could only be answered one way or the other by a microsoft licensing expert

And just to try and temper some of the arguments going on, as far as I know the main reason for the price difference between OEM releases and Retail is to do with the technical support. MS provides it for retail but the legal responsibility for it is passed on to the manufacturer with the OEM licence. (Sorry Directhex, I just realised you covered this off in one of your earlier posts )

it's one of the reasons. the interesting one for me is the COA sticker clause - you can't argue that you don't know about it, since you can't actually access the install cd without breaking the seal on the OEM SB license packaging (i.e. the cardboard box which contains the oem dvd case), yet how many people do it? for reference, i have two COAs stuck to the back of my pc, the wife's box has a sticker on the bottom, and her old box had a dodgy re-used license it shouldn't have done

[306maxi]

Keeping in mind that you can buy 3 OEM Home Premium licenses for 1 Retail Home Premium license, OEM is usually the way to go. I happen to own 2 Ultimate licenses, 1 of which is OEM, 1 of which is Retail. It's just buying what suits you best and planning ahead.

Cheating the system isn't just cheating Microsoft, it's cheating those of us who do prefer to license things properly, don't pirate and tend to keep things on the straight. If you don't want to play by the license, that's entirely up to you, but glorifying it and saying it's fine isn't particularly smart, as the OEM route will just get closed down in the future and you'll end up paying for Retail licenses. Continually arguing the cause is just walking straight to a ban - Hexus have a zero-tolerance policy on piracy, and by working around the license you do own is piracy. It doesn't matter that Microsoft didn't stop you - it's still theft.

If someone wants to ban me for using 1 OEM licence only on 1 PC at a time then that's just fine I do think it's a very good rule to have in that the forum bans people who talk about piracy.

You point to the licence. I'll simply point to the person in the call centre who states that you are allowed to install an OEM PC on more than 1 PC as long as it's only installed on 1 PC at a time. If Microsoft were worried about people using an OEM licence on more than 1 PC then it certainly doesn't show in the way they treat their customers and what they tell their CSR's to say.

[Koolpc]

Why cant Microsoft just make Vista OS and thats that? No need for all the different versions etc. Just make one good Version everyone can use millions of times on the same pc if need be!! They are greedy, that is the answer!!

[306maxi]

Why cant Microsoft just make Vista OS and thats that? No need for all the different versions etc. Just make one good Version everyone can use millions of times on the same pc if need be!! They are greedy, that is the answer!!

Jeez. I think Microsoft should become a charity....

Why doesn't BMW just sell M3's to everyone who buys a 3 series for the price of a 318 and an M5 for everyone who buys a 5 series for the price of a 520.

Microsoft sells Ultimate for more than Basic for the same reason an E8500 is more than a E8400. If it's worth more for a customer then the customer will pay more for it.

[Splash]

Why cant Microsoft just make Vista OS and thats that? No need for all the different versions etc. Just make one good Version everyone can use millions of times on the same pc if need be!! They are greedy, that is the answer!!

They do, it's called Windows Vista Ultimate Retail. They also offer some cheaper options for those that don't require all the shinies.

[Webby]

Why cant Microsoft just make Vista OS and thats that? No need for all the different versions etc. Just make one good Version everyone can use millions of times on the same pc if need be!! They are greedy, that is the answer!!

Providing you don't change the motherboard (correct me if I'm wrong) you can reinstall an OEM version of Windows as many times as you like (may have to ring up MS to get the you have registared this to many times flag removed). If you change the motherboard however then you need a new OEM licence.

As to why MS have essentially 2 versions OEM and retail. With the retail version if you have a technical problem then you ring MS and say "Help my copy of Windows isn't working" and they try to help you sort the problem, you also have the right to install the software on any new PC (new motherboard) you purchase in the future. Now with the OEM licence you have a problem with Windows and you call the company that built your system (for example Dell) and say "Help Windows is broken" and then they have the responsibility to solve the problem not MS. So if you buy a Windows OEM licence and install it on your shiny new PC (all good and legal ) if you have a problem with Windows it is up to you to sort it out as the system builder. This lack of support and the non-transferable nature of the licence is what makes the difference in price, as the system builder (ie Dell) would have charged you more than what an OEM copy of Windows costs (for just the licence) to cover the costs involved in supporting that licence for its life time.

[this_is_gav]

If someone wants to ban me for using 1 OEM licence only on 1 PC at a time then that's just fine I do think it's a very good rule to have in that the forum bans people who talk about piracy.

It's forum policy. You agreed to it when you signed up. If you don't want to abide by it, then I'm sure you'll be welcome elsewhere, and if you keep this up no doubt you'll get a little holiday anyway at some point. You're not pointing out a loop-hole, you're actively encouraging piracy and telling people how to go about it. Had you just mentioned and left it no-one would care, but you apparently feel compelled to continue to essentially promote your own morals, regardless of whether or not they're legitimate.

You point to the licence. I'll simply point to the person in the call centre who states that you are allowed to install an OEM PC on more than 1 PC as long as it's only installed on 1 PC at a time. If Microsoft were worried about people using an OEM licence on more than 1 PC then it certainly doesn't show in the way they treat their customers and what they tell their CSR's to say.

They're wrong, and if you want to read about it it's there in the EULA that you agreed to. I'm an IT tech and manage servers but it doesn't mean I know much about servers or the software on them. The muppets in India answering your call are paid about 32p per annum - do you really think they care? About anything? For every gullible layabout who lets you get away with it there's another who won't let the genuine user reactivate after their RMA replacement because "you don't have a system builder's number". Their incompetence doesn't make your license any more valid.

[Paul Adams]

Wheeeee, interesting thread with some... interesting... comments.

Please distinguish between "entitled to", "technically possible", "can blag your way to", etc.

I am not a licensing expert by any means, but the OEM/Retail standpoint is fairly clear and I believe the following to be true:


The OEM license entitles you to install the product on 1 machine and 1 machine only, for the life of the license.
A "machine" is determined by the main board - change that and it's a different machine, requiring a new license (replacing with an identical main board due to a hardware failure is not considered a different machine).
You are entitled to reinstall the same product on the same machine as much as you want.
You are not entitled to technical support from Microsoft - this is provided by your OEM, or you if you are the system builder and end user.

You are not entitled to transfer the license to another machine (even if you uninstall the product from machine A to install on machine B).


The Retail license entitles you to install the product on 1 machine and 1 machine only*, the principle difference to OEM being that you are entitled to transfer the license to another machine, so long as you remove the product from the first machine.
You are entitled to "Personal" support from Microsoft for the product.

* There may be circumstances where specific licenses allow installation of the same product with the same product key on multiple machine simultaneously, but these are mentioned in the EULA if expressly permitted (as I said, I am not a licensing expert)


The above entitlement differences explain why the OEM license costs a different amount to the Retail license.


While it may be possible to blag your way to activate an OEM product on a different machine, it is not covered by your license.

If you want an analogy (which invariably cars, for some strange reason)...
I can technically park outside my house in a no-parking zone, there is plenty of room.
I am not entitled to park there, but all my neighbours do it and never get tickets, so it's okay, right?
And if I did see a parking attendant coming, I could just claim I was unloading it and had only been there 2 minutes and promise to move it straight away.

(Analogies also never stand up to extreme scrutiny as nothing matches the software/licensing world perfectly, so don't get hung up on pointing out "yeah but in country XXX if it's after hh:mm and the car is blue, then it's not illegal, so you suck".)


On the OP issue of whether to get OEM or Retail, decide based on how often you intend to upgrade your main board or replace your machine entirely (new purchase of an OEM license each time), and whether you may need to open a support case directly with Microsoft or you are happy to fix any issues yourself (as OEM).


I believe directhex has pretty much covered "the way it is" without digressing on hyperbole of "what you can get away with".

[306maxi]

It's forum policy. You agreed to it when you signed up. If you don't want to abide by it,

Where did I say I didn't agree and that I didn't want to abide? You're seeing what you want to see.