Full watercooling set up, advise

[k4p84]

I think it's about time i ventured into the wonderful world of water.

I am running an E6600 and sli'd 8800GTX's in a Cosmos S.

My mobo has a heatpipe set up for the mosfet, MCP, SPP. Though i may remove this and go all liquid.

Now since i'll be starting from scratch i don't want to get anything that is 'just enough', i want it to be future proofed for a while. Disregard GPU blocks as i know they wont be future proof.

I also know to stay away from pre built kits, aka Big water etc. This is going to be a home build.

I have noticed that Danger Den gets good rep all round. Are there any other companies that offer the best in the bussiness?

In a custom kit build app i found i picked all the most expensive components to get an idea of what the damage to my wallet would be. It came back with £500. Does that seem like a fair budget for a top of the range build?

All advise as to components to look at is appreciated

ED

[circuitmonkey]

Well now you bring on the age old question, just how good is water cooling?
Keeping in mind that water cooling (just as air) has only the potential to reduce the temperature of components to the ambient air temperature. That is unless your going to use a few TECs (Peltier effect) in conjunction with water cooling to reduce the temperature further. But then you bring in the headache of condensation.
A lot of people will argue that water cooling is quieter and more efficient at dissipating heat, but consider the fact that you'll still be running fans and water, arguably isn't as good at heat dissipation as heat pipes.
A carefully selected after market CPU, GPU and MOBO coolers could well be enough for a near silent build without breaking the bank.
If you are still adamant that water cooling is for you the I don't think that you should totally dismiss pre built kits, check out this company... coolit
Most of their systems are using TECs to further reduce the fluid temperature and have been shown to beat more expensive water and air cooled setups.

Hope this helps,

CM

[GoNz0]

i suggest EK for the motherboard as they do more purpose built kit unlike danger den, you should be able to get custom mofset, nb and sb blocks from there, run the mobo off a thermochill PA160 attached to the rear 120mm fan mount (external)

then cut a big hole in the top and slap a pa120.3 on top, any internal mounting in a cosmos tends to get a bit cramped so i went for external rads, you can fit 2 ek res tops to the pumps if you go dual setup like mine, pic dont do it justice, but this was the early build stage

http://www.clandesertrats.co.uk/foru...&pictureid=227


http://www.clandesertrats.co.uk/foru...&pictureid=250

http://www.clandesertrats.co.uk/foru...&pictureid=252



let me know if you want the ek 8800GTX blocks as there both up for grabs as im fitting my BFG-GTX280 H2OC tonight

http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/

[Agent]

A lot of people will argue that water cooling is quieter and more efficient at dissipating heat, but consider the fact that you'll still be running fans and water, arguably isn't as good at heat dissipation as heat pipes.

Heat pipes are designed to move / transfer the heat somewhere else, not dissipate it.

One thing to keep in mind: A set of poor watercooling parts can often be little of an improvement over air. If you're new, stick to 10mm stuff - it makes things much easier IMO.

Plan.Plan.Plan. There is nothing worse than ordering a bunch of items only to find out they don't fit.

[k4p84]

Thanks guys,

So what would be the advantages of going over to h20.

I guess i will see lower temps all round, hotspots been the GPU's and CPU.

I know i will have to use a/c to keep the MB, etc.

I do run a mild oc on my cpu, though the temps i get using an IFX-14 are good.

Graphics i run with fans on 100% so they actually keep cool, unlike at stock speeds.

My biggest issue is the PSU, Zalman 850HP, it heats up my case something chronic!
I have put extra fans in just to cool it. I may well build a heat shield, as seen in Lian Li cases so i can keep it's heat separate.

So a frank answer, is water worth it, will i see many benefits considering the outlay?

[GoNz0]

you can expect with WC to see your cpu idle temps become the full load temps, and the vid card will run about 45 degrees flat out

if you wc the mb north and southbridge along with the mofsets, temps will be a hell of a lot lower and stability will go up a lot

[shadowcreaper]

personaly id just watercool either the CPU OR/AND VGA.

CPU will be easyest and probaly be best, being able to overclock very well.VGA will be good also but depends on cards which you use.

CPU should cost about 250-300quid for good cooling, but the big issue is CASE,COSMOS S a good case for water.

have a look at this guys case same as yours with water, must say it pretty dam good.

http://www.beastcomputers.co.uk/comm...ead.php?t=2001

is this what you looking into doing maybe?

[circuitmonkey]

Heat pipes are designed to move / transfer the heat somewhere else, not dissipate it.

quite right, ill chosen words on my part

[k4p84]

I would like to see the GPU's stay cooler as they do get toasty, my cpu has a range of about 10 degs and doesn't get very hot.

But if i'm going to do it i may as well do both.

Now should i run them on separate loops or off a single one. though to get an extra loop you just y-split a few places, yes?

[inonefly]

single loop will be fine provide you use low restriction blocks, ie. d-tek fuzion/xspc edge for cpu and ek fc/mcw60 for gpu with a good pump like ddc3.2 or d5

[shadowcreaper]

for your case maybe a single loop will do, though it depends on graphics card and CPU you got, sinse if graphics card not very cool and needs to be cooled quite a bit then 2 loops may work better, 1 for cpu 1 for vga

[dmuz]

Now should i run them on separate loops or off a single one. though to get an extra loop you just y-split a few places, yes?

No, that would be one loop with the blocks in parallel - not the best idea as the flow restrictions down each way would not be the same, so the flow would be unequal - maybe even stagnant on the higher restricted one. When people talk about 2 loops they mean 2 separate loops (2 pumps, 2 rads, etc)

[k4p84]

Ah hah i had wondered about multiple loops.

How does this sound:

Tripple rad at the top going straight down to the GPU's then up to a single rad in the rear care exhaust then to the CPU then back to the triple.

Without trying it i guess i wouldn't know how well the system works.

The hottest things are the GPUs so should they be cooled first of as they are already hotter than the cooled CPU put the CPU before it in the loop?

Would are the ideal places to put the pump and res, or if i used a very large res would that work as well as a single rad before the CPU. Kinda like a large volume of cooler liquid to pull from.

[Main]

First up:

The main benefits of watercooling are that you can get far lower running temperatures than air cooling, because of the lower thermal resistances at the waterblock and radiator compared to the various forms of air cooling. You also get the benefit of using radiators that are both much larger than would ever be practical in air cooling, and can be mounted where ever you want. Graphics cards benefit greatly from watercooling because the stock heatsinks on even the most power hungry cards have a comparatively small surface area for the heat loads they shift. The difference in surface area between a CPU heatsink and a single 120mm radiator is however, less pronounced.

Regarding general loop configuration:

If you want to 'future proof' watercooling the best thing you can do is fit as much radiator capacity as you can, and buy a powerful pump. If this is going to be fitted to a computer you intend to upgrade in the near future I seriously recommend thinking about how you're going to drain the loop, and/or consider installing quick release valves either side of cpu/gpu blocks so that you can swap out components without draining the entire loop.

Don't bother with parallel flow through the waterblocks, since unless you really know what you're doing you are unlikely to see any real benefits from it, whilst it also involves more complicated plumbing, which isn't advisable for your first loop.

Don't bother with multiple cooling loops, this involves spending a lot more on parts (like 2 pumps), involves more plumbing, requires more space, and again you're unlikely to see any real benefits from it unless you really know what you're doing.

For the loop, you want something like this

Reservoir/fillport -> Pump -> Radiator 1 -> Radiator 2 -> CPU block -> GPU 1 -> GPU 2 -> others -> Reservoir/fillport

or this

Reservoir/fillport -> Pump -> CPU block -> GPU 1 -> GPU 2 -> others -> Radiator 1 -> Radiator 2 -> Reservoir/fillport

whichever is easier to plumb in once you've decided where everything is going to go. While the idea of a 'precooler' between the blocks will probably be fine it isn't really necessary. Bear in mind that even though the heat load of your kit is going to be in the region of 550W at full load at stock speeds, at a water flowrate of 4 litres per minute this only equates to a 2 degrees C increase in water temperature between the water entering the first block, and leaving the last. This means that variations in the blocks' mounting may have more impact on the operating temperatures than their positions in the loop.

There isn't really a best pump location, it'll be more dependent or where you have space and whether you buy one with drive bay mounts or not. There isn't really any benefit to having a large reservoir, other than aesthetics. Can't say how much one of those reservoirs that double as passive radiators would contribute to the cooling, but it probably isn't very much.

[k4p84]

Thank you for that, very informative.

few more things:

Why would run 1 rad straight into another rather than few a few blocks first?

would getting a large res be advantageous and what are the opinions of passive cooled res, are they worth it?

now bigger is better is 3/8 the largest piping available? plus wont the diameters of the barbs on the blocks be smaller than that so negating the advantage of large id tubing.

I am looking at getting a bfg GTX 280 h2o so it would already have a block on. would it be wise to remove it for leak testing and apply AS5 instead of stock paste.

fittings:

should i go with a traditional barb that you encourage the tubing over and clamp or use the compression fittings. we use something similar to compression fittings in paintball markers and they can work fine but do have a tendency to leak.

what is the best way to put in bleeding points? I imagine that taking tubing off a barb each time you change something will make that point leak prone.

ED

[GoNz0]

3/8th tubing so its a tight fit on 1/2 inch barbs, seems to be the general rule of thumb.

up to you with the rads although i took the 2 pump setup to keep the motherboard seperate from the CPU and gfx

i go pump, cpu, gpu, rad and back again.

2 8800's and the cpu did get the rad toasty, but the cosmos doesnt have the greatest air intake, this has been taken care of with the cosmos S side panel care of the coolermaster.nl parts shop.

cant comment tho as it arrived the same day as my 280 did and the other 8800's been dead for weeks, i do notice alot more airflow though.

loop 2 pump, sb, nb, both mofsets and rad then back.