Mini ITX Setup

[scaryjim]

Have my obligatory spanner in the works:

http://www.ebuyer.com/645722-qube-br...-psu-cspowqube

mitx case, tiny little mini-tower, footprint is actually *smaller* than the streacom (210x215, vs 240x250), but it'll take standard ATX PSUs and a (short) full height 2 slot graphics card for future expansion.

I'd couple it with the A10-7800 and whichever motherboard has the ports you actually want/need, as well as the cheapest 8GB kit of RAM you can find @ minimum 2133MHz.

EDIT: Just to add that you can shove in something like this BeQuiet PSU: http://www.ebuyer.com/520270-be-quie...r-supply-bn220 and you should be covered for pretty much any expansion you fancy (and don't forget that you can run dual graphics with a Radeon r7 240 or 250 graphics card!).

I like the ISK 600 but I'd find it's larger footprint annoying (note that despite ebuyer's labelling 195mm is clearly the height, which is its smallest dimension, making the footprint a hefty 260x369 - you could get an mATX case smaller than that). I guess it depends on whether you want small to mean "takes up less space on a desk" or just "has a lower volume than full ATX". If it's the latter there are some smaller mATX cubes that would give you the same space-saving as the ISK 600 or Fractal 500, but a much wider range of component choices. If you're looking for as small as possible while maintaining flexibility, I don't think you can beat the qube I've linked above.

If you want flat out as small as humanly possible and really don't care about future expansion, you could go for one of these: http://www.ebuyer.com/501587-powerco...su-cspowminiq6 with the A10, but you'll probably need to budget for one of these too: http://www.quietpc.com/nh-l9a

[DanceswithUnix]

uATX case would allow the use of http://www.ebuyer.com/611200-asus-a8...rboard-a88xm-a which is what I use in my home server. According to reviews, with any FM2+ APU you can select the TDP in the bios. Not been able to try that, I only have an old FM2 A8-6500 in mine.

[cam1986]

Waw guys, superb help here! I love that low cooler from quietpc scaryjim!!

[scaryjim]

There appears to be an OEM uATX cube case called the Hyperion available that you can pick up all over the place - there even seem to be two differently brnaded/styled versions of it on ebuyer:

http://www.ebuyer.com/696382-element...-case-hyperion
http://www.ebuyer.com/724862-avp-hyp...e-case-cas-107

it's a really interesting design: the motherboard is oriented like a traditional tower but the PSU sits *behind* the motherboard tray. It keeps the footprint down - around 255x355 for the AvP version, which is smaller than the ISK 600 / Fractal 500

[cam1986]

Should i go for the A10-7879K as i will not be getting a space restricted case?

Also, what i like about the core 500 is that there is plenty of room above the mobo

[scaryjim]

... what i like about the core 500 is that there is plenty of room above the mobo

Then you might want to think about http://www.ebuyer.com/696381-element...er-case-atomic

Like the Fractal it puts the PSU at the front of the case so you get the space above the CPU for a substantial cooler, but it manages to be 9cm shallower in the process. That makes it smaller than most of the uATX cases I've looked at; something the Fractal can't claim!

Again, it depends on what you think of as small. Personally I have an issue with any PC that's more than 30cm is any direction calling itself small, but you might be more forgiving than me. Usually moving to a smaller PC is due to footprint contraints rather than volume constraints, and the ISK and Fractal both have fairly large footprints. But without being you, and therefore knowing what space the PC will go into and why you want it to be small, I can't really make a definitive "this is better" statement.

If you go for a case that can take a full ATX PSU - regardless of whether it's uATX of mITX - I'd definitely go for the 7870k, as you won't have any concerns about the power draw. Then it's just a question of choosing a cooler that's suitable for the case layout you choose...

[cam1986]

Many thanks again. Lots to look at. Silent pc is a must as the case will be on the desk

[DanceswithUnix]

Silent means either a massive heatsink or keep the TDP down.

If you want to burn that many watts:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ASRock-970M-.../dp/B00TOBQQTK
http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-FX6300-E.../dp/B009O7YORK
http://www.ebuyer.com/659887-xfx-r7-...e-r7-240d-clf2

[EndlessWaves]

It only makes sense to go for a powerful integrated GPU in a case that's smaller than anything that fits a separate graphics card. Even then not really as small gaming MiniPCs like the EN970/Alpha are actually a far better bet, but if some modularity is essential then it's an understandable choice.

Once you get to about 11L and can go for a case that takes a graphics card you can throw integrated graphics out the window. Spending £115 on a £30 CPU and £85 graphics card gets you something far, far more capable than a £100 CPU with beefy integrated graphics - with all the technical advantages of separating the two biggest heat sources in a computer like easier cooling. It'll also likely save you money overall because you can go for a standard PSU.

[cam1986]

Well, i want to stick with Mini ITX. I would have to be persuaded to go for a CPU and a dedicated GPU. I have no idea which would be compatible etc.

Looking on youtube, the intergrated AMD CPUs are quite good! I am not after high quality settings either.

That Elements Atomic case looks stunning!!! Thanks for sharing that scaryjim. That could be the case for me now.

Def going to get a small modular / quiet PSU. A good HSF too.

I am going to go with the A10 7879k too

[scaryjim]

... That Elements Atomic case looks stunning!!! Thanks for sharing that scaryjim. That could be the case for me now. ...

Yeah, it's a nice design - the inverted motherboard position kind of appeals to me, it's nice and small, but it's still got enough room to be flexible.

I think case choice more than anything else is a really personal aspect of building a computer: finding the right size and style for your current needs is critical. The Atomic is a really good balance of a small case with some flexibility around component choice: if you go for that I'm sure you won't be unhappy with it!

As to a £30 CPU - if you're even vaguely considering modern games - even at low settings - being able to run more than 2 threads will be critical. For certain games a £30 CPU + £85 GPU will be better, but for the best overall PC experience getting a balanced set up is more important. CPUwise the 7870k is around core i3 performance, and GPUwise it's very similar to £60 AMD GPU: overall it's a much more balanced PC. And if you get to a point where the integrated graphics aren't cutting the mustard, you can either add a £60 R7 240/250 for dual graphics, or invest in a more expensive GPU to use stand-alone, knowing that you've got a good underpinning from a decent quad-core CPU. Long gone are the days when dual-core vs quad-core is a debate at anything other than the absolute low end: if you're spending more £100 on a base unit it should have a 4-thread CPU.

[cam1986]

Yeah, it's a nice design - the inverted motherboard position kind of appeals to me, it's nice and small, but it's still got enough room to be flexible.

I think case choice more than anything else is a really personal aspect of building a computer: finding the right size and style for your current needs is critical. The Atomic is a really good balance of a small case with some flexibility around component choice: if you go for that I'm sure you won't be unhappy with it!

As to a £30 CPU - if you're even vaguely considering modern games - even at low settings - being able to run more than 2 threads will be critical. For certain games a £30 CPU + £85 GPU will be better, but for the best overall PC experience getting a balanced set up is more important. CPUwise the 7870k is around core i3 performance, and GPUwise it's very similar to £60 AMD GPU: overall it's a much more balanced PC. And if you get to a point where the integrated graphics aren't cutting the mustard, you can either add a £60 R7 240/250 for dual graphics, or invest in a more expensive GPU to use stand-alone, knowing that you've got a good underpinning from a decent quad-core CPU. Long gone are the days when dual-core vs quad-core is a debate at anything other than the absolute low end: if you're spending more £100 on a base unit it should have a 4-thread CPU.

Great advice. Much appreciated.

Going to look at the different Modular PSUs next to which would be best. SFX looks good but varying reports about noise etc.

[EndlessWaves]

As to a £30 CPU - if you're even vaguely considering modern games - even at low settings - being able to run more than 2 threads will be critical. For certain games a £30 CPU + £85 GPU will be better, but for the best overall PC experience getting a balanced set up is more important.

When TechSpot tested a Haswell Pentium against an 860k (An A10-7850k without the integrated graphics) they found that the Dual Core Pentium outperformed the Dual Module AMD chip. They don't post minimum framerates or 99% figures in the article but the author mentions in the comments that they told the same story:
http://www.techspot.com/review/1017-...et-gaming-cpu/

Anandtech's test of the 7870k doesn't show any Minimum FPS drops for the Pentium with a graphics card either. 10% lower is about the worst case:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9307/t...ds-a10-7870k/5

Not that it's not possible, the early Northwood Celerons on 2003 were hopeless when it came to games despite keeping up in office performance (in that case due to too little cache) but other than a few results inconsistent between different peoples tests and some developer/publisher shenanigans I'm not sure how much evidence there is that a fundamental performance limitation exists on non-CMT/SMT processors.

[cam1986]

The AMDs have some good reviews on Youtube

My wish list so far:

A10 7879k CPU
ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+ Socket FM2+ Motherboard
Element Gaming Atomic ITX Case

Next to research:

PSU, Modular and Quiet
After market Heatsink and Fan, again quiet

[scaryjim]

G3258 is only just under £40. 7870k is £106. That leaves ~ £70 for a GPU, which will get you an R7 250 (GDDR5) or a GT740 - which have similar performance to each other and are a bit faster than the 7870k's IGP. So for gaming, you might *just* be better off with a Pentium + £70 discrete card...

BUT

The OP specifically said "I am not after a dedicated gaming rig". They want a small computer, and they are going to find it easier to achieve that if they don't use a discrete GPU. Plus a quad-core CPU is always going to be more flexible than a dual-core. Want to do some rendering or video transcoding? Cores are where it's at. So the fact that the Pentium + GPU might be better for a particular task (and note I've not even gone into the Mantle/DX12 arguments against dual cores) doesn't make it the right choice. For a small, general purpose computer with some gaming capability, it's really really hard to look past AMD's A8 and A10 APUs.

[DanceswithUnix]

I find the FM2 Athlons + graphics card a better deal than Pentium + graphics card and for many uses make the top end APUs seem poor value, but if you really don't want a graphics card (like my home server) then an APU is super.