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Thread: PCI Express and AGP in the Same Motherboard!

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    Xcelsion... In Disguise. Xaneden's Avatar
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    PCI Express and AGP in the Same Motherboard!

    I remember a guy asking if there were any AMD motherboards which has PCI Express and AGP.

    Well, here it is. The MSI K8N Neo3-F

    http://www.msi.com.tw/program/produc...il.php?UID=642


    It is based on Nforce 4 technology (with a kind of hybrid Nforce 3 part), but pulls of the neat trick of having both a PCI Express 16x and AGP 8x bus.

    I think for pure performance, this isn't a good idea. However, it is definately a big plus for upgraders. Lets face it, there are bugger all x1 cards at the moment, and the major worry is upgrading to a PCX GPU, so this is definately a good thing.


    Btw, it has 3 PCI buses, 1 PCIe x1 bus, and a PCIe x16.

    The slot that looks like an AGP slot actually runs on the resources of the two PCI slots, so MSI calls it an AGR slot for Accelerated Graphics Riser. In time it will publish a list of supported graphics cards, but for now it is warning that fast AGP graphics cards will suffer from bottleneck in the AGR slot.

    Still, its nice as a temporary upgrade measure.
    Last edited by Xaneden; 20-02-2005 at 07:12 PM.
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    Xcelsion... In Disguise. Xaneden's Avatar
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    This is some new info I have found, its a 3D Mark score:

    Back to Back tests with PCI Express 16x and AGP versions of the GeForce 6600 GT graphics card, running the same core and memory speeds.

    In 3D Mark 03, the PCIe card scored 8012 compared to 5830 on AGR. In 3D Mark 05 the gap widened with the PCIe scoring 3480 and the AGR getting 1454, and then in Doom3, the PCIe scored 69.7fps while the AGR ran at 24.6fps.

    Hope that helps.
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    Amateur photographer Hans Voralberg's Avatar
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    Heard somewhere that's running an AGP card for a long time in this slot will damage it, is that right?

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    Xcelsion... In Disguise. Xaneden's Avatar
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    I'm not sure about that, but there definately a bottleneck.

    Its a nice idea for someone who wants to upgrade their componenets towards PCIe/64 bit incrementally. Nothing more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xcelsion
    I'm not sure about that, but there definately a bottleneck.
    8* AGP is a bottleneck in todays systems ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Xcelsion... In Disguise. Xaneden's Avatar
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    8* AGP is a bottleneck in todays systems ?
    Well Agent, if you had read what I wrote in the initial post, you'd have seen that I was not talking about AGP, but rather AGR. Just in case you missed the above post, I've recopied it for you.

    "The slot that looks like an AGP slot actually runs on the resources of the two PCI slots, so MSI calls it an AGR slot for Accelerated Graphics Riser. In time it will publish a list of supported graphics cards, but for now it is warning that fast AGP graphics cards will suffer from bottleneck in the AGR slot."
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    Indeed, missed that part, only skimmed over it
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Xcelsion... In Disguise. Xaneden's Avatar
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    Np.
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    Senior Member SilentDeath's Avatar
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    Why not use more than 2 pci resources? must be possible to use more... Must be!

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    Amateur photographer Hans Voralberg's Avatar
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    What's left for peripheral if use more than 2 ? 4 for example? No more PCI slot. Not sure, just wild guess.

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    Xcelsion... In Disguise. Xaneden's Avatar
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    Right, I've checked the pic, and there are 3 PCI ports, 1 1x PCIe, 1 8x AGR (which uses 2 of the 3 PCI Ports), 1 16x PCIe

    So if u use PCIe Graphics card, u still have 3 PCI ports, which isn't bad.

    Btw, just to make sure u all realise this is 754, not 939.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xcelsion

    Btw, just to make sure u all realise this is 754, not 939.
    that's going to be the killer here. s754 is fine if you're building a small, cheap PC for your parents or non-enthusiast significant other, but s939 is AMD's flagship CPU package for the forseeable future.

    MSI just shot their potentially kickass product squarely in the foot. With both barrels of a 12-gauge. Blowing both legs off in the process. How many times do we have to see a brilliant idea like this completely banjaxed in one fell swoop by an utter lack of foresight in one critical aspect?

    /me sighs heavily and shrugs shoulders...


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    Quote Originally Posted by |SilentDeath|
    Why not use more than 2 pci resources? must be possible to use more... Must be!
    Well only one PCI device can use the PCI bus at any one time, so they probably just use two for wiring and signalling reasons... at a guess.

    The simple fact is that you won't see native AGP on a PCIe motherboard. I'm pretty sure of that, as we'd have seen one by now wouldn't we, instead of companies patching things together with the PCI bus?
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    Given it's limited compatibility and poor performance I really can't see any reason for this motherboard's existence. MSI screwed up on this one I believe.

    In what way is it good for "upgraders" (whatever that is). It's S754.

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    Question Re: PCI Express and AGP in the Same Motherboard!

    Hi, this is my 1st post so please be gentle!

    I found this post after searching Google.

    I am running a MSI K8N Neo2 with a AMD 64 3500, 2 gig ram, and a Geforce 6800gt video card.

    Is the Msi mother board the best solution/any others available? I'm on a budget and can't afford to replace Cpu, graphic card and ram all at the same time.

    I know a little bit about pc's, so any help or advice would be gratefully received.

    Thanks in advance.


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    Re: PCI Express and AGP in the Same Motherboard!

    Quote Originally Posted by fatwallet View Post
    Hi, this is my 1st post so please be gentle!

    I found this post after searching Google.

    I am running a MSI K8N Neo2 with a AMD 64 3500, 2 gig ram, and a Geforce 6800gt video card.

    Is the Msi mother board the best solution/any others available? I'm on a budget and can't afford to replace Cpu, graphic card and ram all at the same time.

    I know a little bit about pc's, so any help or advice would be gratefully received.

    Thanks in advance.

    I would save for a bit longer then Your system should be fine for another 6 months or so. I've only last month upgraded from an S754 Athlon64 3000+ and Radeon 9800 Pro, both of which are significantly less powerful than your components.
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