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Thread: XP2200 woes and a question.....

  1. #1
    VTECmeous Vimeous's Avatar
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    XP2200 woes and a question.....

    I have an Akasa AK 824cu cooler and an XP2200 (can't remember flavour but I have to assume pally). MBM5 is telling me 59-60deg idle. Run up a reasonably modern game and bang it falls over after 5-10mins depending on the game and ambient temperature. BF1942 is BSOD, Mercs4 is CTD. MBM5 at this point is showing a nasty 66 or even 67deg. SETi is another matter all together. It dies at the beginning of the second unit...pass.

    Moby-Dick lends me an SLK-800 and 80mm ooomillion rpm mini-vortex generating Delta. Side of case off. Feet now have personnal cooler.

    Result is stable SETi, and games doing what games do best. MBM5 is still claiming 56-57deg but this time when SETi and co are all in full swing.

    The question is this:

    Will a mad hunt for a Bartonesque XP2500 allow me to reallocate the glowing blue Akasa to cooling duties, or will I still need the services of the almightly Delta, SLK in tow?
    1 : i5 4670K | 8Gb | ASUS Maximus VI Genie | HD6890 | MX100 512GB | TX650W | CM Black Widow | Dell U2713H | 8.1 Pro
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    NAS : DS1511+ | DX513
    W1 : Dell Precision 690 | X5355 | 4Gb FBDIMM | Quadro FX3450 | 2x 146Gb 15k SAS (RAID1) | 2x 500GB (RAID1) | Dell SAS 5/iR | 2x U2412M | XP Pro
    W2 : Dell Precision T3610 | E5-1650 V2 | 16GB | Quadro K2000 | 256GB SSD | 1TB HDD | 8.1 Pro


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    You don't have a pally. They only went up to 2100+. Chances are you'd have a T-bred "A". These tend to run hotter and overclock worse than T-bred "B" or Bartons.

    You'll find that upgrading to a 2500+ (or any other Barton cored CPU, or T-bred "B"), would find your Akasa to be an adequate cooler. Hell, I cooled my 2500+ @ 2.2Ghz with a Volcano 6Cu before I got a Volcano 12. But if you can get a CPU that can overclock to 2.4Ghz+, start looking for a new cooler. The Akasa won't cut it.
    Previous System
    ||3DMark01 - 18,533|3DMark03 - 6,501|Aqua Mark 3 - 43,912|[AthonXP 2500+@ 2.4Ghz - 12*200, Radeon 9800SE (unlocked) 440/369]||

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    VTECmeous Vimeous's Avatar
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    Thanks for the note on the Tbred, pally bit. It's something I've previously investigated but quite some time ago. It's certainly not a B.
    I'm left wondering if it's worth shuffling the XP2200 into my second rig with a different cooler. As the second rig crunches all day I need it to be cool but the Delta is way to noisy.
    Suggestions? What can successfully cool the XP2200 without the need for the Delta FFB0812SHE and SLK-800? (the slk can stay if needed). Or should I sell the XP2200 to help fund the XP2500?
    1 : i5 4670K | 8Gb | ASUS Maximus VI Genie | HD6890 | MX100 512GB | TX650W | CM Black Widow | Dell U2713H | 8.1 Pro
    2 : Q9450 | 4Gb | ASUS P5E-WS Pro | HD4650 | M4 256GB | 2 x 750Gb (RAID1) | Enermax 525W MODU 82+ | CM RC-590 | 17" | 7 Pro
    3 : i7 3570K | 16Gb | ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe | GTX 660 TI | 2x 1TB 840EVO | Sugo SG05BB-450 | Dell U2713H + 17" | 8.1 Pro
    Svr : X2 4200+ | 2Gb | ASUS A8N-SLI Premium | HD6870 | SonicFury | 8x 250Gb (2x RAID10) | 3Ware 9650SE-8LPML | Seasonic 700W | CM Stacker 830 | XP Pro
    NAS : DS1511+ | DX513
    W1 : Dell Precision 690 | X5355 | 4Gb FBDIMM | Quadro FX3450 | 2x 146Gb 15k SAS (RAID1) | 2x 500GB (RAID1) | Dell SAS 5/iR | 2x U2412M | XP Pro
    W2 : Dell Precision T3610 | E5-1650 V2 | 16GB | Quadro K2000 | 256GB SSD | 1TB HDD | 8.1 Pro


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    Official Member luke313's Avatar
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    As stated above your XP2200+ is most likely a TbredA, which runs substantially hotter than TbredB and Barton. You could investigate some of the silent 80mm fans to put on the SLK-800 by Papst and Vantec. They have slightly lower cfm than the Delta's, but are much much quieter. Any XP you buy now is likely to be either TbredB or Barton, but you could go for XP2500+, XP3000+ or XP3200+ to be guaranteed to get Barton.

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    You might not be able to get a good price out of your 2200+. If you're keeping the CPU, keep the SLK as well, but buy a quiet fan as suggested by luke313 and keep your side panel off if you don't mind getting dust in there. Assuming you're from the northern hemisphere, winter is soon approaching, so that'll mean cooler ambient temp = cooler CPU.

    It's really difficult to time when to buy new hardware, but if you still want to keep your Socket A setup, wait a month or two. Best bang for your pound would still be the 2500+ and it should be cheaper. Also the 2600+ Bartons would be more readily available and could possibly be the new overclocking champs.
    Previous System
    ||3DMark01 - 18,533|3DMark03 - 6,501|Aqua Mark 3 - 43,912|[AthonXP 2500+@ 2.4Ghz - 12*200, Radeon 9800SE (unlocked) 440/369]||

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    TiG
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    Apart from the fact that sadly Vimeous's computer room is like 15°C warmer than the rest of the ambient temperature of the rest of the world

    TiG
    -- Hexus Meets Rock! --

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    To get such high temps is very strange fo an XP2200+ which surely is a TbredA, AFAIK all XP2200+ are TbredA. It might not be a true XP2200+, poosibly an o/c'ed Pally which would account for massive temps. TbredB and Barton don't run that much cooler than TbredA but they do o/c MUCH better, Pally's are the REALLY hot ones and you're lucky to get one to XP2200+ speed if that is the case. I would check your case for a sign it's the heat culprit (or part of), it should have good ventilation and case fan mounts (fans located optimally and piinting correct way). The gfx card can be the next big heat producer, a passively cooled one often gives off more heat, esp bad as it rises directly to where the CPU is located.

    Anyway you should try an XP2500+ as that way you don't have to battel to verify TbredB as you'll always get Barton and stepping codes etc make no real diff for Barton. At stock it's a cool runner esp if you undervolt it, I'd certainly expect your Akasa to be up to it (without actually checking its stats). If you do get probs then as said try the SLK with a quiet or adjustable fan (like Smart Fan II?) as that should certainly cope ... you could also 7V mod or add a controller to that screaming Delta.

    To o/c the XP2500+ all you ideally need is a mobo supporting 400FSB or 333FSB with multiplier control. Of course for 333FSB you'd want PC2700+ and for 400FSB PC3200+.

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    Originally posted by Austin
    To get such high temps is very strange fo an XP2200+ which surely is a TbredA, AFAIK all XP2200+ are TbredA. It might not be a true XP2200+, poosibly an o/c'ed Pally which would account for massive temps.
    "Thortons" (Bartons with half of their level 2 cache disabled) are being produced to replace lower end T-bred "B" (2000+ to 2400+). Before the Thortons, T-bred "B" were produced from 1700+ speeds to cater for demand.
    Anyway you should try an XP2500+ as that way you don't have to battel to verify TbredB as you'll always get Barton and stepping codes etc make no real diff for Barton.
    Not true. All retail AMD XP CPUs are T-bred "B" (applicable to non-Bartons of course). The only time you really have to worry that it isn't a T-bred "B" is if you're buying it second hand or the shop you're buying it from has not seen a customer in 8 months and just so happen to have a 'fresh' batch of AthlonXPs for you to choose from.

    ...Pally's are the REALLY hot ones and you're lucky to get one to XP2200+ speed if that is the case.
    AGOGA anyone? What about the AGOIA? With the AGOIA stepping, it was the rave 'back then'. People hit 1.75Ghz easy with these chips. Myself, I was able to clock my AGOIA to 1.85Ghz, but I've seen them go up to 1.95Ghz on air cooling. I also had a AGOGA stepping that did not do as well, and could only handle 1.75Ghz.
    Last edited by Rod911; 29-10-2003 at 11:59 AM.
    Previous System
    ||3DMark01 - 18,533|3DMark03 - 6,501|Aqua Mark 3 - 43,912|[AthonXP 2500+@ 2.4Ghz - 12*200, Radeon 9800SE (unlocked) 440/369]||

    Current System
    ||3DMark01 - 30,949|3DMark03 - 18,122|3DMark05 - 8,483|3DMark06 - 4,222|||

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    I didn't think the Thorton were there to replace the TbredB but simply to use up the otherwise binned faulty Barton (where some of the cache was faulty). Perhaps AMD only wish to produce Barton now but I doubt they'd be enough CPUs produced with faulty L2 cache to fill demand. Who knows?

    As for, "All retail AMD XP CPUs are T-bredB" there were a bunch of people posting here that had ended up with TbredA after assuming all were now TbredB. Probably a large batch from the US where most sites stipulate the core so would be harder to sell. In the UK it's very uncommon for retailers to tell you the core so easy to flog off unwanted (or cheap) TbredA. It still involves an element of work to guarantee a TbedB so as I said just buying an XP2500+ potentially saves you a lot of work and you get ...

    * Better stock perf (generally).
    * Roughly 5% faster speed per clock.
    * Nice default multiplier.
    * Nice default voltage.
    * The chance of getting 'AthlonXP3200+' shown at boot if you run 400FSB for example (small point I know).

    Regarding stepping codes AGOGA and AGOIA, they are both TbredA not Pally, check the quote you give and you'll see I'm addressing Pally CPUs which are always locked and notoriuosly hot runners. Just because you could get an XP1600+ to XP2100+ does not mean it's a good o/c nowadays esp when you consider prices, TbredB and Barton offerings. What you say about the AGOGA and AGOIA steppings illustrates just how poor the TbredA are at o/c'ing as they rarely can do 2.0ghz (XP2400+), the 8 layer design simply has too much cross-talk.

  10. #10
    Senior Member SilentDeath's Avatar
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    AGOIA is a PALLY!!!

    i had an a XP2000+, which was agoia. multis were locked, so i unlocked the L1. max i got stable was 1.72ghz, which wasnt really worth the effort.

    imo just run the cpu slower, either unlock it (if it needs it, cant remember for tbred A), or just reduce the fsb. asssuming 2200+ is 1.8ghz, try running it at 1.6ghz, and reduce the voltage as far as you can keeping it stable. test with prim95 and memtest86

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    Well I didn't know you guys in the UK still had some TBredA stock in. LoL. My bad.

    Now, if you will please, go to this site:
    http://mp3.zonebg.com/cpu/cpu.php#

    Now in the spaces provided, enter the following:
    AX1700DMT3C
    AGOGA0206CPFW
    Y7763060475

    Now, tell me, what do you get?

    That batch code is from my 1700+ Pally. My AGOIA is in my bro's computer. TBredA started with "AXDA" as shown here by one of the earliest TBredA 2200+ reviews done by HardOCP. Also to note, TBredB start with "AXDA", again showed by the good folks over at HardOCP.

    Just because you could get an XP1600+ to XP2100+ does not mean it's a good o/c nowadays esp when you consider prices, TbredB and Barton offerings.
    I had a 1700+ Pally. That was 1466Mhz. I had overclocked that chip to 1850Mhz. Roughly a 400Mhz oc or 26%. You don't consider that a good oc considering it was a Palomino core? The highest the pally were produced to was 2100+ or 1.73Ghz.
    Previous System
    ||3DMark01 - 18,533|3DMark03 - 6,501|Aqua Mark 3 - 43,912|[AthonXP 2500+@ 2.4Ghz - 12*200, Radeon 9800SE (unlocked) 440/369]||

    Current System
    ||3DMark01 - 30,949|3DMark03 - 18,122|3DMark05 - 8,483|3DMark06 - 4,222|||

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    That site used to tell you what your CPU was clocked own from although most of the time it made no sense and rarely proved accurate when the CPU was o/c'ed. Nice site but I wouldn't bank too much on it myself. I didn't realise AGOIA was a Pally, kind of forgot all those ancient stepping codes.

    Since the days of TbredB the last letter has been the telling point as to whether the CPU is TbredA or TbredB, so naturally jumped to the conclusion it was TbredA due to AGOIA. Thanks for refreshing my memory, AXDA does mean 0.13mu (Tbred) while AX meant 0.18mu (Pally). The code that follows AXDA+model number relates to the package, voltage, die temp, cache and FSB.

    As for locking, ALL TbredB and Barton are unlocked, some TbredA were unlocked (the locked ones were easy to unlock) but the hot Pally's were always locked and right pigs to unlock ... with > 1.7ghz being a good o/c for one of those it didn't make much diff to unlock them though. Sure a Pally at 1.8ghz+ is a great achievement but I dread to think of the heat it would give off or the noisy cooling it would require ... it would most likely run hotter than a stock XP3200+. TbredB redefined the term 'good o/c' since practically all of them (even the lowly XP1700+) could achieve XP2600+ speeds with many managing > 2.2ghz on air. Being unlocked allowed a lot more flexibility too, esp when 400FSB came about. Sorry for getting it wrong guys, we're only human

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    VTECmeous Vimeous's Avatar
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    I've had the side off the case for some time. The case is a Coolermaster ATC-201B-BXT with an 80mm for each harddrive (manual speed control), one rear 80mm and a twin 80mm PSU. Ambient case temp is usually low to mid twenties with or without the side panel in place. With or without the side off made no difference when the Akasa was fitted.

    I double checked the CPU, it's a TbredA and locked.
    1 : i5 4670K | 8Gb | ASUS Maximus VI Genie | HD6890 | MX100 512GB | TX650W | CM Black Widow | Dell U2713H | 8.1 Pro
    2 : Q9450 | 4Gb | ASUS P5E-WS Pro | HD4650 | M4 256GB | 2 x 750Gb (RAID1) | Enermax 525W MODU 82+ | CM RC-590 | 17" | 7 Pro
    3 : i7 3570K | 16Gb | ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe | GTX 660 TI | 2x 1TB 840EVO | Sugo SG05BB-450 | Dell U2713H + 17" | 8.1 Pro
    Svr : X2 4200+ | 2Gb | ASUS A8N-SLI Premium | HD6870 | SonicFury | 8x 250Gb (2x RAID10) | 3Ware 9650SE-8LPML | Seasonic 700W | CM Stacker 830 | XP Pro
    NAS : DS1511+ | DX513
    W1 : Dell Precision 690 | X5355 | 4Gb FBDIMM | Quadro FX3450 | 2x 146Gb 15k SAS (RAID1) | 2x 500GB (RAID1) | Dell SAS 5/iR | 2x U2412M | XP Pro
    W2 : Dell Precision T3610 | E5-1650 V2 | 16GB | Quadro K2000 | 256GB SSD | 1TB HDD | 8.1 Pro


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