Do you get an 'XP rating' applied when you o/c?

[CrapshoT]

Austin m8 the serious hexus fans take your advice and i for one read all of your posts with great care as i know that you wouldnt say anything without having knowledge on it first im really sorry to hear of your troubles and i wish you and your family all the best
my son was knocked down in august and was very luckt to be alive he was touch and go for a few days but thank goodness he is doing well now my wife has also had another suicide attempt this year as well so that hasnt helped me in anyway and as you say when you look at things theres always someone worse off than you so take no notice of these unexperienced youngings m8
the real dudes know you are worth your weight in gold too many of the decent posters are starting to die out cos of these sort of issues so please dont stop giving us your piece m8
sorry for totally changing the thread tho as well

Austin m8 you have my upmost respect m8 and im sure im not the only one

[Austin]

Thanks. I managed to have a quick look around (much to the understandable annoyance of my wife). The AthlonXP tends to fair a little better in 3D stuff while the P4 equivilent to the XP rating tends to retake the lead in encoding and apps. In Athlon vs AthlonXP it seems it's mostly the SSE of the XP that makes the most diff, is that alone enough to suggest the XP1500+ is faster than the Athlon 1.4ghz (let alone fast enough to be equivilent to an Athlon 1.5ghz / 1500mhz)? Any IMHO when you average it all out you find the XP rating is as close to a perfect match (vs the equivilent P4) as you can get all things considered but you certainly need more imagination if the 'XP rating based on Athlon' thing is to be believed.

Mostly looking at P4 vs AthlonXP:

Note this was at the time of the new P4's arriving (denoted A=NW so 512k & B=NW+533FSB) os bear in mind it's the original P4 that I believe the XP rating was actually derived on:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1615&p=7

Note grey are from o/c'ed systems. Esp note how the XP1500+ fares against the Athlon 1.4ghz (which should be a fair bit slower according to AMD). Again this is the time of the new A & B P4's:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020506/p4b-06.html

Doesn't show many CPUs (again note the new A & B P4):
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/p42533/page4.asp

New P4-A CPUs:
http://www.techreport.com/reviews/20...4/index.x?pg=4

Mostly looking at Athlon vs AthlonXP:

Seems the A-1.4ghz is virtually neck and neck excpet in encoding where the XP's SSE lends a hand, still I'd hardly say the XP1500+ can justify it being equivilent to an A-1.5ghz:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20011031/xpvsp4-06.html

X-Bits' take (scroll half way down):
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...n-xp-1800.html

Info on AMD's 'True Perf Initiative' (XP rating was only meant to be a temp thing):
http://www.techreport.com/etc/2002q4/tpi/index.x?pg=1

[Saracen]

Austin, following your last post and your accusations, I have left this until now to respond for two reasons. Firstly, to let you think better of your remarks and to withdraw the personal remarks. Secondly, to refer this entire thread to the rest of the Admin team for them to reach a conclusion - as I was not prepared to act alone. That, they have now done, so this message comes from the team.

I am not prepared to sit here and be accused of being closed minded, or of going on a rant, or rampage, simply because I diagree with you. I will leave it to anybody that has read this far to make what they will of my comments, and the evidence supplied, and your comments and the evidence supplied.

But your accusations and insinuations I will not sit still for. You remind me there that there are people worse off than myself. That is true, but you have NO IDEA what my situation is, because I don't choose to publicise it on a bulletin board. Nor will I talk about my medical matters here. I'm also sorry to hear of your family troubles, but just because I don't choose to publicise my problems, don't assume they don't exist.

That notwithstanding, what I am NOT prepared to tolerate, however, is your accusations.

As you have chosen to let your accusations stand, and have made them publicly, my response is coming to you publicly.

Anyone can disagree with me. Any member here is entitled to argue with anyone else. Disagree by all means. But insults and accusations are not on.

Should you feel this is me being unfair, feel free to take it up with the other Admins. or with David. But I warn you, this post comes having already referred to the matter to them for their opinion, so I doubt the response you'll get will any different.

If you wish to continue posting at Hexus, I suggest to reconsider those remarks and apologise for them.

[Austin]

Sorry you feel I made personal comments but I feel you should consider who appeared to get personal and edgy first. I didn't (certainly didn't intend to) accuse you of being close minded, I thought my previous comments were simply pointing out how little you seemed to listen to what I was saying, that was all. "insults and accusations"? I apologise any time I remotely feel it is warranted, in this case I think it is NOT. Lets go back to the start of thread shall we?

I begin the thread by enquiring whether peple get the 'XP rating' applied when they o/c to which I get at least 27 on topic replies, well certianly not off-topic LOL! I make a small side-point in response to "How does the XP rating work ... does it mean to take, The Pentium 4 equivalent in mhz?". I simply state my belief which is "The XP rating in reality does indicate the AthlonXP's perf relative to P4 although to avoid any legal strifes AMD claim it's all to do with the Thunderbird Athlons LOL!" You say "And presumably they fake all the benchmark figures that they derive the PR ratings from as well, then?" Perhaps that's where it began? I assumed you were kidding when saying that the XP rating is ALL about the original Athlon and nothing to do with the P4 ... while you (obviously missing my earlier posts) seem to think I believe AMD did 'officially' derive it from the P4. I've never said that, I know and have often stated where AMD claim it is derived from, I just don't believe it and had never met anyone who did.

So anyway I state "Please show us any figures that show how much faster the AthlonXP is compared to the original Athlon. Then show how the AthlonXP fairs against the P4's out at that time (400FSB P4 to early AthlonXP and then 533FSB P4 to the rest). Which would you say is closer?" You supply good info albeit from AMD and state your case. I then say "I stand by my guns as my research is what I've done independently from many INDEPENDENT sources from a neutral's point of view" I was simply trying to emphasise I used many sources to come to my conclusion ... I was NOT trying to say you are biased. At worst I was pointing out that the figures came from AMD which is hardly an independent source, I don't think that was even a factor in my comment.

Unfortunately you miss "I'd say watch this space but we are kind of off topic now, I'll start another thread ASAP when I check that PDF and gather my evidence a little." However you choose to go on (at great length) so I then respond. Firstly by stating AGAIN that it is off topic so please allow me to get my evidence and begin a new thread. However (again at great length) you obviously choose to ignore my requests. You say "I figure if I can't argue you into agreement, I can at least try to bore you to death. " Seems to be friendly and in the spirit of things, no worries about slander etc at this point it seems.

I reply then you reply, but this time I'd have to say it seems to be you who is the first to become unreasonable. Here's your comments ...

"it's totally daft to suggest that the PR rating compares XPxxxx to P4 running at xxxxGHz"

"Now, this is my last post on the subject."

"You've made repeated remarks ... but they are all vague statements. No cold, hard figures, no benchmark results, no independent auditing. All assertions and statements, no supporting evidence."

"I don't propose to spend any more time going round in circles."

"If this post comes across as fed up, Austin it's not aimed at you (nice to know). It's due to the headache I've got, and have had for about a week now, and that I feel I'm batting my head against a brick wall here."

Then nearly a whole week later you decide to post saying you've been offended, that I've made insults and accusations (where?) and that you felt the mods should be involved . "If you wish to continue posting at Hexus" seems like a clear threat to me and aimed directly at me ... then you go on to request an apology? Come on grow up!

[Zak33]

MY TURN.....

Saracen is a top bloke...he sat down, shut up and waited until we had convinced him that he wasn't in the wrong. He was madder than a mad thing on mad juice but he waited and asked what to do.

Admin's here have an easy time...you lot are all nice people, you Austin included. BUT when an admin and a member start on a proper debate and it turns personal a long way in, the Admin must decide if he should let the public have their say, and get out while the professional status is still good.....

Thankfully he did

If you worked as closely as we do, with the team, you'd feel the same. We believe him leaving it at that point, even though he heartilty disagreed and was offended, he left it, swallowed it down, for trhe good of the community.

I would like you to say sorry. I am not Saracen, I dont live in his life, but he's offended, and he only ever says what he means. He is not a trouble stirrer, he is a very accurate and professional bloke. I respect him greatly. If he's offended, maybe something was typed badly, or whatever, but he doesn't invent things. He's accurate.

I would like you two to be in this forum together helping the masses. I just think we can avoid the XP rating debate

I think that its time to shake hands and leave it....BUT only if you both feel you can.

Saracen is integral to Hexus.....and you have a following of loyal readers. NEITHER of you should be here in the first place, at this point where a debate runs into a big falling out.

If I can ask Austin to swallow it down and say a simple sorry, please, then its back to normal. I think you will find that Saracen would be greatfull.....I think it would mean a lot to him

What do ya say, Austin? Can you be as helpfull here as in any other thread? Can you do as I ask?

Down to you bloke......hope its possible cos there's stuff to be getting on with.

[Saracen]

Originally posted by Austin
Then nearly a whole week later you decide to post saying you've been offended, that I've made insults and accusations (where?) and that you felt the mods should be involved . "If you wish to continue posting at Hexus" seems like a clear threat to me and aimed directly at me ... then you go on to request an apology? Come on grow up!

Not a threat. A warning.

Why a week? As I said

Originally posted by Saracen
Austin, following your last post and your accusations, I have left this until now to respond for two reasons. Firstly, to let you think better of your remarks and to withdraw the personal remarks. Secondly, to refer this entire thread to the rest of the Admin team for them to reach a conclusion - as I was not prepared to act alone. That, they have now done, so this message comes from the team.

The delay was because I REFERRED THIS TO THE OTHER ADMINS.

Still, that notwithstanding, you've made your position quite clear so I've now banned you. If you want to take it further, take it up with David. Good luck.

[TiG]

Sorry to say but I think you've made a bad decision banning Austin here. I don't agree with his insulting you, far from it, I've had my own set of set to's with Austin, mainly for his 5% performance difference claims that just have no grounding, which you also appear to have issue with, quite rightly.

I'm sorry but the offense that you suffered does not balance against the usually helpful nature of Austin. He's well respected on here and other places.

If you had both agreed to differ in view then we probably wouldn't have got to this situation.

So i'll apologise for Austin on his behalf, but I truely think that the ban is wrong.

I hope that some compromise can be reached here and soon, as otherwise this could blow out of all proportion.

TiG

[[GSV]Trig]

My XP2500 is shown as an XP3200 on my NF7S btw...

[Saracen]

I appreciate the effort, Tig, but this is not just my decision. As I said, I referred it to the other Admins precisely because I was directly involved. I have unanimous support for this action.

I have no problem with Austin, or anybody else, holding whatever view he wants. I'm more than happy for people to disagree with me. As witness to that, DaBeenster has just been made Mod for Question Time, despite the fact that both here and on previous forums, Ben and I disagree about just about anything and everything. Despite that, this appointment was my idea, though everybody else agreed it was a good move.

But I will not sit still for the remarks made, and the inferences in some others. And that self-serving final post was the last straw. Look back at the thread. Austin ASKED for the figures to support my assertion, and HE raised the subject of PR rating being based on P4 or T'Bird in the first place. Yet look at the remarks in that last post, suggesting I'd taken the thread off-topic. His original question had been asked and answered, including a long and detailed reply from me. Threads evolve, things change. I post, he posts. Yet all of a sudden, everything is supposed to stop because he wants to post a different thread. All he had to do was stop posting replies to my post, but no, it's all my fault. And it seems Austin even has a problem with this waiting a week before being dealt with DESPITE the fact that I'd already said the reason for that was that I had referred it to the other Admins, and to David. I did that because I was not prepared to take this sort of action of my own back.

The thread is there for anyone to look back at, to see what order things occurred in. Nothing is being hidden. Everyone is welcome to their opinion of this, and no doubt some people won't agree with it.

Austin has made it clear that he feels no apology is necessary. Fair enough. His choice. He's chosen to stand on his principle, and I admire him for that. But so have I. I made it pretty clear what action would follow.

It's a shame that it has come to this, but it has, and so far as I'm concerned, it's now finished with. Case closed.

I'm also closing this thread now as the subject of the thread has been done to death.