Looking to build an HTPC

[hotpurple]

Hi all,

I'd like to get some opinions if I may. At the moment I have a shuttle SN45GV2 with a 9800pro AIW and a wireless card (belkin 54G). It works quite well and feeds into my 28" 100hz Panasonic TV.

As a system it works quite nicely but does have a few drawbacks, namely:

• It still looks like a PC. Yes, a very nice PC but a PC none the less.
• It's noisy, the noise is mainly coming from the GFX card, which can be replaced, but I like the gaming performance.
• It only accepts analogue TV inputs, I really want freeview or freesat.
• The TV image is very low res (800x440 from memory, NTSC widescreen res) and not much use for web browsig etc. I can run 1024x768 but it's illegible and distorted as my TV just expands it to 16:9

Ok, so I've decided to upgrade, essentially I want to do the following:

• TV out. I would like to have S-video for now, or RGB scart preferably (I did make a cable for this but it appears to not work through a DVI adaptor as used by my 9800pro AIW). In the future, I would like HDMI connectivity to connect to a flat panel, although I guess I could do this with DVI at a push, although I am worried about the possibility of this not being HDCP compatible.
  
• TV in. Freeview preferably, but have the ability to talk to sky boxes (I believe windows MCE can do this with appropriate hardware).
  
• Remote control. I use an ATI Remote wonder at the moment, which works well, but the drivers are very unreliable. I've looked at the MCE remotes but they don't offer the same functionality as the TV wonder. Any recommendations?
  
• Instant on/off. I guess that I would just use suspend for this, but the Intel VIIV stuff looks good with it's low power mode.
  
• Games console. I want to play games on it. On a CRT tv this is not a problem as even a fairly simple card can push the res I would use, but when moving to a plasma or LCD the res will get much higher so I will need performance to match. Ideally I would like X1600xt spec at least, preferably faster.
  
• Quiet. Probably a bit of a mismatch with the above, but I'd like it to be very quet, almost silent. I don't mind doing a bit of modding to get this done, just nothing too extreme.
  
• Small. I'd like it to be as small as possible, and as non-pc like as possible. If at all possible I'd like it to look more like a playstation or something.
  
• As low cost as possible. I know it's going to cost a fair whack, but I'd like to keep costs in realistic limits

Ok, so a pretty difficult spec to meet you would think. I have come up with the following rough spec, but I'd like some advice on possible upgrades/ better choices.

Hypermedia chassis
Asus P5B-VM without using integrated gfx (does anyone know of a similar board without integrated gfx)
Core 2 duo E6300
X1600xt
Ati theatre 650pro (when they finally appear)
USB wireless (possibly connected internally?)
ATI Remote wonder elite
400gb Seagate barrcuda 7200.10 SATA 2
Slimline DVD/RW (doesn't really matter which one I guess)

Now I know the Hypermedia is pretty tight on space internally so what sort of cooling do people recommend in there, remembering quietness is very important?

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Chris

[BigBry]

I think the Hipermedia has NO suitable CPU cooler that works on a s775 CPU. You'd need a 1u cooler unit and the only s775 ones are NOISY.

The best quiet cooler I've seen for a Hiper is this one;
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=396321
It's obviously s939 but they are bringing out an AM2 version soon.

With the Hiper unit you have to be driven by the parts that fit, not really by the spec you want.

If you're not using integrated graphics where are you planning on fitting a graphics card?
Where are you planning on fitting a wireless USB?

You can only fit 1 card in total into the Hiper and that has to be either low profile or normal to thin in terms of width, nothing else will fit.

I'd suggest picking a difefrent case!

[jamena]

I've built my computer into a silverstone lc11m case. it's only about 10cm high so about the same size as a VCR. takes uATX motherboards and can take up to 3 single slot expansion cards including the gfx (comes with AGP but PCIE is available as an extra purchase. Only caveat is that you need to make sure the PCI-E and PCI slots on your motherboard are in the right places if you want to use them. This allows for a larger HSF, though still have to be careful with height. I'm using a Zalman 7000 AlCu or something. Noisiest thing ifs the 9800pro AIW, but there aren't any good single slot cooling solutions and I'm using all 3 slots. You have to be careful with fanless graphics if they use a heatsink on both sides of the card as this might not fit - small cases are CRAMPED!

Water-cooling might be an option - if you could run the pipes out the back of your little case to an external radiator to cool the cpu and gpu? (Zalman reserator maybe?) You'd just have to either hide the radiator or get one that is decorative

[mallett]

The new antec fusion case looks very nice and theres a fair bit of room in there too, although this does mean its quite lagre but thats the price to pay if you want to get all the bits you want and make it quite, the larger the case the easier it is.

Saying this though, its not over powering and looks like a very stylish piece of hi-fi equipment, i might be building a system in there at some point in the future...

Heres a linky to a review on it from our lovely friends at Hexus.

[hotpurple]

Thanks for the opinions guys. I hadn't realised that the hypermedia chassis was limited to 1 expansion card, saying that, if I use an all in wonder card that may not be a problem. I may get one anyway to have a look at it. If I don't like it there is always e-bay. I like the idea of as small as possible, the smaller the better!

Chris

[jamena]

Thanks for the opinions guys. I hadn't realised that the hypermedia chassis was limited to 1 expansion card, saying that, if I use an all in wonder card that may not be a problem. I may get one anyway to have a look at it. If I don't like it there is always e-bay. I like the idea of as small as possible, the smaller the better!

Chris

if you don't like the look of it and can pack it back up neatly you can always return it to the place you bought it from within 7 days - costs you postage but probably no worse loss than going via ebay?

[kevpuk]

Regards remote, I use an iMon Soundgraph remote with VFD in my MCE PC.....which, incidentally, is based in a Aspire Q-Pack case which has been excellent !

[FatalSaviour]

[*]Instant on/off. I guess that I would just use suspend for this, but the Intel VIIV stuff looks good with it's low power mode.

Just a very quick one, as I don't have much time at the moment, but I believe the Instant On/Off in it's current state just pretty much mutes the sound, and turns off the display..i.e there's no low-power mode going on in the base unit itself (although I may be wrong...I haven't looked into it for some time).

Vista's sleep mode is now pretty efficient, which pretty much does S3 Suspend...so this may be your best bet.

[jamena]

Regards remote, I use an iMon Soundgraph remote with VFD in my MCE PC.....which, incidentally, is based in a Aspire Q-Pack case which has been excellent !

My lc11m silverstone case came with an iMon soundgraph remote+VFD built in

[jamena]

Just a very quick one, as I don't have much time at the moment, but I believe the Instant On/Off in it's current state just pretty much mutes the sound, and turns off the display..i.e there's no low-power mode going on in the base unit itself (although I may be wrong...I haven't looked into it for some time).

Vista's sleep mode is now pretty efficient, which pretty much does S3 Suspend...so this may be your best bet.

unless your HTPC is actually doing something useful while "suspended" you should really consider turning it off and just aiming for a quick boot-up time. The iMon remote/vfd has a power button - the receiver detects the signal and boots up the pc, I imagine other manufacturers have similar functions. If you put on a decent, htpc-centric OS and don't load it with lots of unnecessary startup services, programs, drivers, etc, then you're talking seconds to turn on. You can, I believe, run specially designed "light" (linux?) frontends and stuff to get you into the menus even quicker, couple of seconds. Having a pc running just for the sake of it is like leaving a couple of 100W light bulbs burning all day ... not exactly environmentally friendly

[blue73]

TV out. I would like to have S-video for now.

Stay away from S-Video its only marginally better than composite. DVI/HDMI is the way forward but component out is still as good. But please stay away from S-Video.

[kevpuk]

TV out. I would like to have S-video for now.

Stay away from S-Video its only marginally better than composite. DVI/HDMI is the way forward but component out is still as good. But please stay away from S-Video.

Agreed, S-Video is not too pretty.....there are 'boards out there with integrated DVI (my s939 K8NGM2-FID being a case in point), but not sure where to look for Intel equivalents......my MCE PC is plugged into our 32" LCD TV over DVI and is a marked improvement over earlier S-Video implementations

[blue73]

You can buy converters from the likes of Lektropaks or Keene Electronics that convert a DVI output to RGB for SCART, component to VGA and other combos. Though they can vary considerably in price.

I was wondering why S-video is still available on so many bits of kit as nearly all TVs in Europe have SCART or Euro Connector I think they call them abroad. I dont ever remember anyone connecting anything to a TV over here via S-video unless it was a Camcorder or a Laserdisc. I'm pro.bably wrong though

[hotpurple]

You can buy converters from the likes of Lektropaks or Keene Electronics that convert a DVI output to RGB for SCART, component to VGA and other combos. Though they can vary considerably in price.

This sounds interesting, do you have a link?

Chris

[stud]

Agree with some of the points above. S video is v bad, go for DVI as a minimum for quality. And as for VIIV - it's suspend thingy is rubbish.

I have a SFF with MCE, and I can turn the unit on and off with the MCE remote into S3 within a few seconds either way. You need a reghack for this, but it's easy to do. So, the only power being used is that which is going to the mem modules (I believe), to keep data info alive. Same level of energy than when switched off, but still plugged into wall. Great stuff. The PC can also wake itself from this state, when a programme needs recording.

Isn't the Core 2 a bit overwelming for this build?

[blue73]

This sounds interesting, do you have a link?

Chris

Just google 'em and register. But like I said the different converters can vary in price. It all depends on what TV or display panel Yer usin. Some have upscalers some don't, some convert composite to S-video some don't, some will take 1080i and upscale to 1080p but wont take any thing else but an HD signal. It's bloody confusing and it's very good of the industry big wigs to give us a symbol to look for when we're after an HDTV (ie HD Ready) but means nowt when it comes to screen/panel resolution. Many PC users have had the ability to view HD material for some years. I guess we're all in for the **** we all went through with VHS vs Beta, DVD A vs SACD and we will all go through the same **** with HD DVD and Blueray. Its a God send that these forums exist to stop us from going insane. If We aren't already......

To the site masters I apologise for the swearing..