German kill counts?

[Sailor]

So I take if you shoot down a plane from the ground then that doesn't count as a kill>?

[Dakaras]

So I take if you shoot down a plane from the ground then that doesn't count as a kill>?

Depends

The RAF didnt count planes destroyed by fighters on the ground as kills. Some airforces did. If you mean anti aircraft fire then yes they were awarded when they could be

[3dcandy]

So surely, someone like Erich Hartmann with something like 352 kills had some exaggerated. As far as my memory serves me, he had the most kills ever? I could be wrong....and I'm sure he had double figure kill sorties!!!

[Dakaras]

So surely, someone like Erich Hartmann with something like 352 kills had some exaggerated. As far as my memory serves me, he had the most kills ever? I could be wrong....and I'm sure he had double figure kill sorties!!!

With out a doubt Hartman was a skilled pilot, and he was on Eastern Front from start in a cutting edge fighter (ME109) against basically souped up WW1 planes for a lot of the time

[3dcandy]

Yeah....reading a bit more about him though, he quite often flew 3 - 5 sorties in a day, and a lot of his kills were against IL2's... his tactics meant he used his wingman as a decoy, and then "snuck in" and shot the IL2 from below and behind where it was vulnerable. He always said to wait until the enemy filled the canopy before shooting, as you're sure of hitting it. 352 sure is a hell of a kill count....

[DrewsObsession]

I remember reading somewhere that Hartmann never engaged a target that knew he was coming. Smart....but still 300+ kills is hard to beleive....

[3dcandy]

Hartmann had it easy. 352 kills IS a huge amount, but Russian forces just threw IL2's into battle at stupid rates, with pilots to match those stupid totals. All the really high scoring aces from the reich spent time on the eastern front, and most of them scored in Bf-109's against much worse opposition. If you wanna look them up, google for some of the best ie. Gunther Rall, Walter Nowotny, Erich Hartmann etc. and see that most of them spent time fighting russians. Thus, it just became a numbers game, and with the numbers of Russian planes they were simply coming across, then it's easy to see why Hartmann for example could pick and choose his victims. Hartmann NEVER lost a wingman in combat, well maybe they crashed etc. but none were killed. That is an enviable record during WWII. He also flew very large amounts of sorties, and was lucky to escape major injury during his combat period. Also, he was a late starter, and also escaped being sent to an "elite" squadron (JG400 anyone, flying ME-162B's - good chance of just exploding there boys). He did eventually get a posting to convert to ME-262's, but it was so late he never had the chance to find out that they flew like a lead balloon after an engine flame-out or 2!!!