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Thread: War of Rights

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    War of Rights

    Is anyone in on this? Last week they released the final early-backer steam keys, for the low-paying scrubs like myself. I backed it last year, and had actually got sick of reading updates about it to the point where I wasn't interested, but when I played it...wow. Well worth the wait.

    https://warofrights.com/

    For the uninitiated:

    FPS set in the American Civil War. Early access, but very playable. Has a bunch of cool stuff that other FPS games don't go for, including:

    - no scoreboard. No place here for leety-mcleetleet and his e-peen.
    - teamwork is essential. Penalties for dying out of formation and lone-wolfing. Can skirmish but death leads to a greater morale hit for the team (there's a team-wide morale system which is pretty essential).
    - takes time to steady the aim. No spinning 360 headshots, as the big ol' rifled muskets take a few seconds after raising to become aimable. And even then, chances are the shot won't hit. But a line of 20 soldiers firing a coordinated volley might do some damage.
    - nco's, officers, and flag-bearers. They get to draw the lines where the grunts go and die, and the flagman doesn't get a weapon, but can act as a mobile spawnpoint.
    - fog of war. The smoke from the muskets lingers and obscures vision, and gives an indication of wind direction for when firing downrange. Saw a wave of our own reinforcements mercilessly (and somewhat hilariously) gunned down by a volley from our own disorientated line, despite cries over the positional VOIP.

    Tends to favour the slower, methodical playstyles that don't lend themselves to modern FPS/twitch games. They're aiming for an educational element as well as slaughter, and it works well. Currently goes up to 75 players a side.

    Here's some screenies of some action from last night. The Union boys were assaulting a rebel bridge. We formed up behind a wall, popping up in unison to fire a volley, then hunkering back down to reload. And then a comical bayonet charge over the bridge. Have a look at all the people working together, not seen that level of teamwork in any other FPS:

    To my right...



    To my left...



    ...with the officers and flag-bearers behind us. Here's what you get at the end of the round, no K/D, no individual score, just who capped that point and a breakdown of the team deaths:



    Charging across a pontoon into the yankee lines:



    Didn't end well. I led the next one, and under heavy suppression got within 50 yds:



    We tried a different bridge:



    Which also failed, landing us back at deployment - showing off the tasty maps which they've put some work into:



    Shaping up to be a real nice game. Those are on high settings @1440p. Frames are 30-70, mostly all over the place with it being alpha, but they don't dip too low for me.
    Last edited by Mr_Jon; 12-12-2018 at 11:31 PM.

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    Re: War of Rights

    Very interested!

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    Re: War of Rights

    I've been looking at this game for a while. Havn't quite managed to pull the trigger on it yet.

    There's some comments about it having poor optimisation. Kneeling effecting the team? (i don't know what that's about??? Any clues? )

    I wonder if it's quite ready for public consumption yet.
    With an average player base in the last 30 days of <500 people, i think there's a genuine concern on my part about getting available servers in the EU/UK aswell.
    Considering it's a 150 player game, and i'd be playing outside of the most popular time zone for the game. (Assuming given the subject that is that it's most popular in the US)

    The visuals of it look pretty impressive though and many of the mechanics encouraging team work appeal.
    I'm certainly going to follow the game, but at the moment. I think it's just watch from a distance.

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    Re: War of Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    - teamwork is essential. Penalties for dying out of formation and lone-wolfing.
    I'll be interested to see how they make this work, as I've heard the same said about several other games but it never held true. Rising Storm Vietnam was the last to make such claims, but even I could Lone Wolf a lot of that... and indeed, it was the only way to play in the end, as so many others were doing likewise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    the big ol' rifled muskets take a few seconds after raising
    Not my favourite period of history - Are they actually rifled muskets, or just rifles?
    Also not sure that's especially accurate, assuming these guys had at least some target practice, and skirmishers especially I would expect to have some snap-shooting experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    fog of war. The smoke from the muskets lingers and obscures vision, and gives an indication of wind direction for when firing downrange.
    ^This sounds good!!

    If this takes off (and I hope it does) I'd be really interested in a Napoleonic Wars version!!

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    Re: War of Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by AC81 View Post
    I've been looking at this game for a while. Havn't quite managed to pull the trigger on it yet.

    There's some comments about it having poor optimisation. Kneeling effecting the team? (i don't know what that's about??? Any clues? )

    I wonder if it's quite ready for public consumption yet.
    With an average player base in the last 30 days of <500 people, i think there's a genuine concern on my part about getting available servers in the EU/UK aswell.
    Considering it's a 150 player game, and i'd be playing outside of the most popular time zone for the game. (Assuming given the subject that is that it's most popular in the US)

    The visuals of it look pretty impressive though and many of the mechanics encouraging team work appeal.
    I'm certainly going to follow the game, but at the moment. I think it's just watch from a distance.
    Yeah, with it being alpha the optimisation is ongoing. It's stable, but leans quite heavily on the cpu. Although it's 150 max players (with plans for more), it's just as much fun in smaller servers - only needs around a dozen or so for a good game. Plus, bear in mind it's only come into early acces on steam less than a week ago, so the numbers will likely pick up. There's generally two full servers and a smaller one or two. Ping is playable (less than 150) when playing on the US servers too, and there's a good spread between the EU and US ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    I'll be interested to see how they make this work, as I've heard the same said about several other games but it never held true. Rising Storm Vietnam was the last to make such claims, but even I could Lone Wolf a lot of that... and indeed, it was the only way to play in the end, as so many others were doing likewise.


    Not my favourite period of history - Are they actually rifled muskets, or just rifles?
    Also not sure that's especially accurate, assuming these guys had at least some target practice, and skirmishers especially I would expect to have some snap-shooting experience.


    ^This sounds good!!

    If this takes off (and I hope it does) I'd be really interested in a Napoleonic Wars version!!
    The penalty system is based on army morale. Three individual stances/states of being: dying "in formation" (i.e. in line, or at least a big group of friendlies) doesn't penalise morale as much as "skirmishing" (kneeling, 40% morale hit) or "out of line" (lone-wolfing, being nowhere near any friendlies, 80% hit). Someone explained it as you lose 1 ticket for dying in formation, 5 for skirmishing, and 10 for out of line - but from what I can gather there's no tickets, just the army morale in stages of ready, engaged, taking loses, breaking (and then loss). Being in line gives suppression reduction and less sway - if one is lone-wolfing and under fire, it's nearly impossible to get the bead on the enemy, whereas the buff from being in line negates that.

    They're rifled muskets mainly (~3 shots per minute), with a few oddities like smoothbore muskets, the hex-bullet Whitworth, and the Spencer Carbine (7 shots per minute). Plus bayonets, using the muskets as a club, and officers get revolvers and sabres. Takes time to aim, with it all geared towards massed volleys.

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    Re: War of Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    but from what I can gather there's no tickets, just the army morale in stages of ready, engaged, taking loses, breaking (and then loss).
    How does that actually affect gameplay, though?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    Being in line gives suppression reduction and less sway - if one is lone-wolfing and under fire, it's nearly impossible to get the bead on the enemy, whereas the buff from being in line negates that.
    You mean you cannot actually aim and shoot?
    Cor, that'd be nice.

    My biggest criticism of the 'realism' in online shooty things is how easily players can, with absolutely no fear, just get up and charge me when I'm laying down strings of fire with a BAR, SAW, LSW, etc... If it were real life, that kind of fire would have them filling their pants and cowering as flat on the floor as they can get, which is kinda the point of such weapons anyway.
    It'll be real nice to have a game mechanic where supressing fire does actually supress the enemy!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    They're rifled muskets mainly (~3 shots per minute), with a few oddities like smoothbore muskets
    I understood all muskets were smoothbore, with only those made smooth and later rifled actually being termed 'rifled muskets'... whereas if they're made with rifling to begin with, they're simply rifles. This difference may seem minor, but rifles usually take longer to load, as they either had to be rammed harder/more to make the ball fit past the rifling, or required a patch wrapped around the ball to make the same tight fit, both of which took (apparently) up to 20 seconds longer per shot. While this is great for skirmishing sharpshooters, whose every shot should count and who specialise in hitting high value targets, they're more of a liability in formation volleys and the like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    the hex-bullet Whitworth
    Now that was an oddity - Technically a smoothbore musket, but made with a hexagonal bore as a decent working alternative to rifling, but still with the twist like rifling, and made by the Whitworth Rifle Company, and actually called a rifle by its makers...

    This may be of interest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-S_horZGk

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    and the Spencer Carbine (7 shots per minute).
    7 rounds per magazine tube. RoF should be 14-20rpm sustainable, according to period accounts of battles like Gettysburg. Pretty awesome weapon, though possibly a game-unbalancer if made too realistic!

    Then again, I understand (third hand) that tabletop wargames make things ultra-realistic and players still don't complain about lack of balance...

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    Re: War of Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post

    My biggest criticism of the 'realism' in online shooty things is how easily players can, with absolutely no fear, just get up and charge me when I'm laying down strings of fire with a BAR, SAW, LSW, etc... If it were real life, that kind of fire would have them filling their pants and cowering as flat on the floor as they can get, which is kinda the point of such weapons anyway.
    It'll be real nice to have a game mechanic where supressing fire does actually supress the enemy!!
    Might be worth you looking at Hell Let Loose.
    It has a really tough surpression mechanic which is tougher than i've experienced in any other game. What it does more than anything is create shooting for the sake of supression a very viable tactic. And create long drawn out fighfights. Where in most games there's no real reason to shoot unless you have LOS.

    That games not out yet, (closed beta about to start) so might be worth you keeping an eye out for but don't know what the finished product will be like yet.
    There are some vids from the closed Alpha on youtube.

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    Re: War of Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    How does that actually affect gameplay, though?
    The various morale stages act as a barometer as opposed to a definitive "100 tickets left" - when the enemy is breaking, the order tends to be push up on them to finish them off, before they can reform, thereby cutting them down with volleys as they're on their way back to the action and out of line. It also guides where the officers draw the battle lines, conservatively/aggressively etc.. Leads to the emphasis being more on getting onto the point-of-contention and staying in line, reducing the chance of the morale dropping.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    You mean you cannot actually aim and shoot?
    Cor, that'd be nice.
    Aye, if skirmishing/out of line and under fire the screen gets pretty blurry and the weapon judders around. Staying in formation negates the worst of it, but there's still a bit of blur when a volley comes in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    My biggest criticism of the 'realism' in online shooty things is how easily players can, with absolutely no fear, just get up and charge me when I'm laying down strings of fire with a BAR, SAW, LSW, etc... If it were real life, that kind of fire would have them filling their pants and cowering as flat on the floor as they can get, which is kinda the point of such weapons anyway.
    It'll be real nice to have a game mechanic where supressing fire does actually supress the enemy!!
    Charges only work if the enemy is outnumbered here, and then it's quite effective. Charging a firing line ends up in death, as even if one makes it to the line, the effects of suppression and fatigue turn the player into a big ol' sitting duck.

    This video is a pretty good representation of all the above aspects. It was made last week, with the vast majority of participants being utter noobs with a handful of experienced high-tier early backers. In spite of all the freshness, they stick together - which is pretty much my experience of the game so far, the teamwork is fantastic. So to, the rebel yells:

    Last edited by Mr_Jon; 13-12-2018 at 05:33 PM.

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    Re: War of Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    I understood all muskets were smoothbore, with only those made smooth and later rifled actually being termed 'rifled muskets'... whereas if they're made with rifling to begin with, they're simply rifles. This difference may seem minor, but rifles usually take longer to load, as they either had to be rammed harder/more to make the ball fit past the rifling, or required a patch wrapped around the ball to make the same tight fit, both of which took (apparently) up to 20 seconds longer per shot. While this is great for skirmishing sharpshooters, whose every shot should count and who specialise in hitting high value targets, they're more of a liability in formation volleys and the like.

    I know this one!

    So you're right that 'rifled-muskets' is a very strange phrase, and it's used to describe a very small group of firearms from the mid-1800s. Early rifles, such as the British issued Baker did use a patch around a round ball that was designed to grip the rifling in the barrel. It's replacement, the Brunswick rifle, also used a round ball, but this was cast with a solid lead band around the ball which slid in to wide rifling grooves in the barrel. Both of these were slow to reload and required special training to use. They were only issued to specialized regiments.

    The first British rifles that were issued to regular troops were the 1853 patter Enfield 'Rifled Muskets'. These were originally designed to be smoothbore muskets, but manufactured and issued with rifled barrels thanks to the development of the MiniƩ ball. This wasn't a round ball at all, but a round nosed cylinder similar to a modern bullet, which had a concave base. The pressure of the powder charge against the base would deform the edges to push the ball against the rifling of the barrel. As such, no patch was required. This gave them the reloading speed of a muzzle loading rifle with accuracy that was better than the patch wrapped balls of their predecessors. The P1853 Enfield and 1861 Springfield rifled muskets that were most commonly used during the US Civil War were both manufactured almost exclusively with rifled barrels and used MiniƩ balls. The Enfield Rifles in British service were mainly converted into Snider Breech loading rifles after 1866. Military service rifles of the time period were technologically far behind those used by civilians. Lever-action rifles using metal cartridges, such as the Henry Rifle, were in common use in the 1860's, but saw very limited military service.



    On the left is an 1834 Brunswick Rifle, second from left a Snider conversion on an 1853 pattern Enfield Rifle-musket.

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    Re: War of Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    The various morale stages act as a barometer as opposed to a definitive "100 tickets left" - when the enemy is breaking....
    But does low morale actually impact how well/badly you can then play the game itself?
    As in, if it's low is your aim or vision then all blurry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    Aye, if skirmishing/out of line and under fire the screen gets pretty blurry and the weapon judders around. Staying in formation negates the worst of it, but there's still a bit of blur when a volley comes in.
    I didn't notice much of that in the video, although I did spot things like the smoke and the status changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Jon View Post
    In spite of all the freshness, they stick together - which is pretty much my experience of the game so far, the teamwork is fantastic.
    I find the American Civil War a little boring, usually, but once this got started I was pretty well engaged. It does look like fun, at least to try.

    I still want some Napoleonics, though!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee View Post
    On the left is an 1834 Brunswick Rifle, second from left a Snider conversion on an 1853 pattern Enfield Rifle-musket.
    Yeah, no, I'll take what looks like a No 4 and the FAL, thanks...!!

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    Re: War of Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    But does low morale actually impact how well/badly you can then play the game itself?
    As in, if it's low is your aim or vision then all blurry?
    Ah, no: the morale status is the games version of tickets, but not as a definitive number - it doesn't affect an individuals gameplay. That's all in the formation stances.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    I didn't notice much of that in the video, although I did spot things like the smoke and the status changes.
    Yeah he didn't actually do much shooting in the video. The shots he took looked very steady (certainly when compared to mine), so without checking the video I'd hazard a guess that he was either in the "in formation" stance (due to being so close to a large number of people), or that the formation stances don't apply to nco's and officers (which would make sense, but I've never tried them out).

    In addition to the firing smoke, there's river smoke too (for want of a better word). This is both powder and river smoke, and in combination with the foliage made for a pretty atmospheric slaughter:



    Wasn't much wind in this one, which came in handy as the smoke obscured the position we were defending...an open field:



    Whereas in this one, there was a stronger breeze with all the smoke from the yankee line quickly blowing out to the right:




    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    I find the American Civil War a little boring, usually, but once this got started I was pretty well engaged. It does look like fun, at least to try.

    I still want some Napoleonics, though!!
    I'm sure someone will do it judging by how much of a hoot this game is. Line, columns, squares, frenchies, and all sorts of shenanigans for that. The roadmap for WoR says cavalry and manned arty is planned, but I don't hold out much hope as they're only a small team. As it stands, it's a very good game even without it.

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    Re: War of Rights

    Bit of an update. It's been in Steam Early Access for around five months now and is progressing nicely. Performance has improved remarkably over that time - I've gone from 15-40 fps to a more consistent 35-50fps (during which time my gpu has been downgraded from a Vega 56 to a 1070) with big frames drops virtually eliminated. It's the kind of game that really only needs a stable framerate of ~25 for it not to be noticeable, as it's not a twitch shooter and the graphics are realistic as opposed to razer-sharp.

    One of the more major recent developments is they've been stress-testing the servers for a 200 player limit. I've taken part in a couple and they've been superb. It seems that the more players there are, the better the game becomes, unlike the majority of fps games where more players = more clustertruck. There's a rare phenomenon coming to light too, where the more players there are, the higher the level of teamwork. Here's some scenes of one yesterdays 200 player rounds, featuring coordination that still makes me chuckle. Never seen anything like it in an online game:

    Objective on this map is the white church over to the left. Just visible behind the smoke is a confederate flag and one end of their main line. There's a smaller force along a fence to the right of the church, behind the smoke, which was moving to outflank us. The union boys were using the small rocky hill as cover, but were getting torn apart by the massed fire. Tactical retreat was ordered, and we all legged it. I think it's the only shooter game I've played where retreats actually occur:



    We regrouped, reinforced, and somewhat covertly (using the terrain as cover) made our way around their far left to pour fire into their flank:



    With time of the essence, and morale of both sides breaking, we moved again to our left - advancing through the woods behind the church (just visible centre, through the trees) - with the smoke generated from the firing line concealing our sneaky move towards their rear:



    The game is a real blast. Thoroughly recommended still. I play solo, but there are tons of clans/regiments available for people wanting a sim experience.

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    Re: War of Rights

    I'll keep an eye out for final release!
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    Re: War of Rights

    Bought it but disappointed that the two main mouse buttons are hard coded and I cannot allocate them to the actions I want. Have logged a bug report.

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    bios curious
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    Mar 2013
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
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    Thanks
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    Thanked
    46 times in 38 posts
    • Mr_Jon's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASRock AB350 Pro4
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 3800x
      • Memory:
      • 48GB
      • Storage:
      • Samsung 970 EVO NVME
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 6750XT
      • PSU:
      • EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define XL R2
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 11 Pro
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      • Samsung C32JG50 WQHD @ 144hz

    Re: War of Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by blueball View Post
    Bought it but disappointed that the two main mouse buttons are hard coded and I cannot allocate them to the actions I want. Have logged a bug report.
    Yeah that's odd. It's likely an oversight, plus with them having stayed in closed alpha for so long, no-one picked up on it or just got used to it. Posted it in their bug report section.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    I'll keep an eye out for final release!
    Could be a while! From what I can gather, the crowdfunding and early access sales has pretty much done the job - and with all the stuff they'll be (slowly) adding, an actual final release date is anyone's guess. Their bumph: "War of Rights is a vision that keeps expanding its scale. The project is entirely crowdfunded and has been developed on for the past 6 years. We consider it more of an ever evolving artistic piece rather than a final product with a targeted release deadline with set features." Artillery is being done at the moment (there's some first iteration screenies of it, I'd guess it'll be heavy sim), and then cavalry - can't see them going final before at least the arty. Edit: there's quite a bit planned before release.

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  18. #16
    bios curious
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    333
    Thanks
    206
    Thanked
    46 times in 38 posts
    • Mr_Jon's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASRock AB350 Pro4
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 3800x
      • Memory:
      • 48GB
      • Storage:
      • Samsung 970 EVO NVME
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 6750XT
      • PSU:
      • EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define XL R2
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 11 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung C32JG50 WQHD @ 144hz

    Re: War of Rights

    @blueball - the last patch added in rebinding the mouse buttons. Checked it out and they work. Performance has improved again too.

    Join the carnage

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