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Thread: P51 v Bf109

  1. #1
    'ave it. Skii's Avatar
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    P51 v Bf109

    I lifted this straight from the simHQ boards - its a good read

    .....the second example is very different. It starts as a four-versus-four and ends up as a one-vs-one between 16-kill Mustang ace Bud Anderson (who had five kills at the time of this encounter) and a Bf-109 pilot that was probably very experienced as well. The engagement takes place at high altitude, around 10.000 metres. This engagement has much more of the mental chess game that we as simmers tend to associate with air combat, with moves and countermoves:


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As we take up the chase again, two against two now, the trailing 109 peels away and dives for home, and the leader pulls up into a sharp climbing turn to the left. This one can fly, and he obviously has no thought of running. I'm thinking this one could be trouble.

    We turn inside him, my wingman and I, still at long range, and he pulls around harder, passing in front of us right-to-left at an impossible angle. I want to swing in behind him, but I'm going too fast, and figure I would only go skidding on past. A Mustang at speed simply can't make a square corner. And in a dogfight you don't want to surrender your airspeed. I decide to overshoot him and climb.

    He reverses his turn, trying to fall in behind us. My wingman is vulnerable now. I tell Skara, "Break off!" and he peels away. The German goes after him, and I go after the German, closing on his tail before he can close on my wingman. He sees me coming and dives away with me after him, then makes a climbing left turn. I go screaming by, pull up, and he's reversing his turn - man, he can fly! - and he comes crawling right up behind me, close enough that I can see him distinctly. He's bringing his nose up for a shot, and I haul back on the stick and climb even harder. I keep going up, because I'm out of alternatives.

    This is what I see all these years later. If I were the sort to be troubled with nightmares, this is what would shock me awake. I am in this steep climb, pulling the stick into my navel, making it steeper, steeper...and I am looking back down, over my shoulder, at this classic gray Me 109 with black crosses that is pulling up, too, steeper, steeper, the pilot trying to get his nose up just a little bit more and bring me into his sights.

    [...]

    So I'm looking back, almost straight down now, and I can see this 20-millimeter cannon sticking through the middle of the fighter's propeller hub. In the theater of my memory, it is enormous. An elephant gun. And that isn't far wrong. It is a gun designed to bring down a bomber, one that fires shells as long as your hand, shells that explode and tear big holes in metal. It is the single most frightening thing I have seen in my life, then and now.

    But I'm too busy to be frightened. Later on, you might sit back and perspire about it, maybe 40-50 years later, say, sitting on your porch 7,000 miles away, but while it is happening you are just too damn busy. And I am extremely busy up here, hanging by my propeller, going almost straight up, full emergency power, which a Mustang could do for only so long before losing speed, shuddering, stalling, and falling back down; and I am thinking that if the Mustang stalls before the Messerschmitt stalls, I have had it.

    I look back, and I can see that he's shuddering, on the verge of a stall. He hasn't been able to get his nose up enough, hasn't been able to bring that big gun to bear. Almost, but not quite. I'm a fallen-down-dead man almost, but not quite. His nose begins dropping just as my airplane, too, begins shuddering. He stalls a second or two before I stall, drops away before I do.

    Good old Mustang.

    He is falling away now, and I flop the nose over and go after him hard. We are very high by this time, six miles and then some, and falling very, very fast. The Messerschmitt had a head start, plummeting out of my range, but I'm closing up quickly. Then he flattens out and comes around hard to the left and starts climbing again, as if he wants to come at me head on. Suddenly we're right back where we started.

    A lot of this is just instinct now. Things are happening too fast to think everything out. You steer with your right hand and feet. The right hand also triggers the guns. With your left, you work the throttle, and keep the airplane in trim, which is easier to do than describe.

    Any airplane with a single propeller produces torque. The more horsepower you have, the more the prop will pull you off to one side. The Mustangs I flew used a 12-cylinder Packard Merlin engine that displaced 1,649 cubic inches. That is 10 times the size of the engine that powers an Indy car. It developed power enough that you never applied full power sitting still on the ground because it would pull the plane's tail up off the runway and the propeller would chew up the concrete. With so much power, you were continually making minor adjustments on the controls to keep the Mustang and its wing-mounted guns pointed straight.

    There were three little palm-sized wheels you had to keep fiddling with. They trimmed you up for hands-off level flight. One was for the little trim tab on the tail's rudder, the vertical slab which moves the plane left or right. Another adjusted the tab on the tail's horizontal elevators that raise or lower the nose and help reduce the force you had to apply for hard turning. The third was for aileron trim, to keep your wings level, although you didn't have to fuss much with that one. Your left hand was down there a lot if you were changing speeds, as in combat...while at the same time you were making minor adjustments with your feet on the rudder pedals and your hand on the stick. At first it was awkward. But, with experience, it was something you did without thinking, like driving a car and twirling the radio dial.

    It's a little unnerving to think about how many things you have to deal with all at once to fly combat.

    So the Messerschmitt is coming around again, climbing hard to his left, and I've had about enough of this. My angle is a little bit better this time. So I roll the dice. Instead of cobbing it like before and sailing on by him, I decide to turn hard left inside him, knowing that if I lose speed and don't make it I probably won't get home. I pull back on the throttle slightly, put down 10 degrees of flaps, and haul back on the stick just as hard as I can. And the nose begins coming up and around, slowly, slowly...

    Hot damn! I'm going to make it! I'm inside him, pulling my sights up to him. And the German pilot can see this. This time, it's the Messerschmitt that breaks away and goes zooming straight up, engine at maximum power, without much alternative. I come in with full power and follow him up, and the gap narrows swiftly. He is hanging by his prop, not quite vertically, and I am right there behind him, and it is terribly clear, having tested the theory less than a minute ago, that he is going to stall and fall away before I do.

    I have him. He must know that I have him.

    I bring my nose up, he comes into my sights, and from less than 300 yards I trigger a long, merciless burst from my Brownings. Every fifth bullet or so is a tracer, leaving a thin trail of smoke, marking the path of the bullet stream. The tracers race upward and find him. The bullets chew at the wing root, the cockpit, the engine, making bright little flashes. I hose the Messerschmitt down the way you'd hose down a campfire, methodically, from one end to the other, not wanting to make a mistake here. The 109 shakes like a retriever coming out of the water, throwing off pieces. He slows, almost stops, as if parked in the sky, his propeller just windmilling, and he begins smoking heavily.

    My momentum carries me to him. I throttle back to ease my plane alongside, just off his right wing. Have I killed him? I do not particularly want to fight this man again. I am coming up even with the cockpit, and although I figure the less I know about him the better, I find myself looking in spite of myself. There is smoke in the cockpit. I can see that, nothing more. Another few feet...

    And then he falls away suddenly, left wing down, right wing rising up, obscuring my view. I am looking at the 109's sky blue belly, the wheel wells, twin radiators, grease marks, streaks from the guns, the black crosses. I am close enough to make out the rivets. The Messerschmitt is right there and then it is gone, just like that, rolling away and dropping its nose and falling (flying?) almost straight down, leaking coolant and trailing flame and smoke so black and thick that it has to be oil smoke. It simply plunges, heading straight for the deck. No spin, not even a wobble, no parachute, and now I am wondering. His ship seems a death ship - but is it?

    Undecided, I peel off and begin chasing him down. Did I squander a chance here? Have I let him escape? He is diving hard enough to be shedding his wings, harder than anyone designed those airplanes to dive, 500 miles an hour [800 kph] and more, and if 109s will stall sooner than Mustangs going straight up, now I am worrying that maybe their wings stay on longer. At 25,000 [7500 m] feet I begin to grow nervous. I pull back on the throttle, ease out of the dive, and watch him go down. I have no more stomach for this kind of thing, not right now, not with this guy. Enough. Let him go and to hell with him.

    Straight down he plunges, from as high as 35,000 feet [10.500 m], through this beautiful, crystal clear May morning toward the green-on-green checkerboard fields, leaving a wake of black smoke. From four miles straight up I watch as the Messerschmitt and the shadow it makes on the ground rush toward one another...

    ...and then, finally, silently, merge.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tumble's Avatar
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    is that in a book? If it is, can I borrow it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Quentos
    "My udder is growing. Quick pass me the parsely sauce." Said Oliver.

  3. #3
    HEXUS.Metal Knoxville's Avatar
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    Thats awesome dude

    whats it an extract from?

  4. #4
    'ave it. Skii's Avatar
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    I believe the book is called 'To Fly and Fight' and if I ever see a copy, I'll bite the shopkeepers arm off

    More on him here

    http://www.cebudanderson.com/budanderson.htm

  5. #5
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Skii......frankly that scares me half to death......every now and then i think "what if it was WW2 now? would I wanna be a fighter pilot? Damn right...but I feel now that I aint got it, I cant cut it, so would I have died? Probably."

    And that says it all to me....DEAD.

    *shudders*

    That belongs in a place in my head from now on. Space reserved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Makes you wonder if we were fighter pilots would the roles be changed or would the likes of me and Dak be dead instead?

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    Senior Member Tumble's Avatar
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    Dunno.. I often think about what would have happened if I was actually around then... I'd probably end up like the green P/O fresh from OTU, who gets waxed on his first scramble.... makes me kinda glad that I'm only flying a game tbh..

    Quote Originally Posted by The Quentos
    "My udder is growing. Quick pass me the parsely sauce." Said Oliver.

  8. #8
    adamspestcontrol.co.uk
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    Awesome read, I read a lot and I mean a lot (Just ask Skii about the heaving bookshelves) and it takes a special author to be able to involve you like that, when suddenly your in the cockpit with them.

    If id been round in WW2 I like to think id have been able to hack it, BUT as nearly every ace found out on the day there is usually somebody better.

    To list them as they occur in my head

    Molders KIA
    Galland
    Deere
    Hartmann
    Bader
    Pattle KIA
    Goodson
    Stanford Tuck

    To mention just 8 of the best were all shot down at some stage in thier careers sometimes ending there career in the case of Bader, Goodson, Molder,Tuck and Pattle either KIA or POW

    In fact the only guy I can think of that barely took a bullet through out the war was Jonnie Johnson, not sure about Malan.

    Gawd its threads like this see me loose whole weekends in books.

    One off split second was the difference between life or death and very very few were as reckless as we are able to be in a game.

    Edit $40 US for autographed copy...Its nearly christmas..hmmm thats a plan me thinks

    Edit no2 OMG he flew Old Crow!!!!!! Only one of THE MOST FAMOUS STANGS EVER
    Last edited by Dakaras; 07-11-2003 at 08:14 PM.

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