Low-budget PC with FX 6100 or i5-3300

[Steph~]

I am looking to buy a cheap and cheerful desktop computer that is able to run the latest generation of speech recognition smoothly. The absolute budget version seems to be the "Reaper AMD Bulldozer FX 6100 3.3Ghz Desktop PC 500gb HDD 4gb DDR3 DVD Writer" from FreshTech Solutions for about £220. I don't think it is possible to build it myself for less cash.

It is possible to upgrade the motherboard to Gigabyte 78LMT USB 3.0 and Asus M5A78L-M USB 3.0 for some extra cash. Of course, it is also possible to upgrade the RAM.

The competition is the Dell Inspirion 660 with i5-3300. It is currently just under £350 but comes with 1TB HDD.

I would like to hear your qualified advice about both system, in particular if you are using speech recognition software.

Is there any way of finding out what motherboard is used by Dell?

[Willzzz]

The FreshTech system certainly is cheap, although I think you could save a little on the Intel system if you did build it yourself. The CPU/HDD upgrades should only add about £80.

[scaryjim]

I personally wouldn't pay anyone for a computer with an FX6100 in it - they're old, and inferior, technology.

Dell generally use their own design motherboards, which are then made by companies like ASUS and MSI (it varies from system to system). They're pretty good quality and well built, generally.

What speech recognition software are you looking to use? AFAIK Speech Recognition isn't that resource intensive, so you can probably go with something fairly low-end and still get an acceptable performance. With the price of DDR3 memory and the fact that all processors come with built in graphics now, it's possible to build a decent entry-level system for ~ £200 (of course, if you need to buy a Windows license that pushes the price up considerably ).

[Steph~]

Willzzz, the FreshTech system is so well priced that I could not find the components for a similar price. FreshTech does not come with an OS. The Dell, however, comes with Windows 8. It seems to be compulsory. I guess that possibly explains the missing £80.

scaryjim, the FX6100 is not the latest AMD generation but it is certainly value for money. I have ordered Dragon NaturallySpeaking (DNS) 12 Premium. Although the requirements mentioned by Nuance are almost met by my T61, power users mention that it is actually fairly resource intensive. DNS 12 uses two cores simultaneously to process the recordings before calculating and selecting the result with the highest probability. I certainly think I need to have a quad-core processor so that there is no bottleneck when I use other programs at the same time.

What would you recommend for a decent entry-level system that is capable of processing speech without delay? It would be ace if you can provide links to recommended configurations. Cheers!

[scaryjim]

Again, it depends on if you need windows or not. I'm going to assume that you do

64bit Windows 7 Home Premium OEM: http://www.ebuyer.com/259863-microso...ia-1-gfc-02050
£65

Easy option

Acer Aspire with AMD quad core APU: http://www.ebuyer.com/389414-acer-as...c-dt-shjek-021 - £229
Comes with FreeDOS, so you'd need to buy & install Windows yourself.

Possible build it yourself option:

A6-3670K: http://www.ebuyer.com/322110-amd-367...-ad3670wngxbox
ASUS FM1 motherboard: http://www.ebuyer.com/388886-asus-f1...55-m-lk-rev2-0
4GB Kingston HyperX Blu Red: http://www.ebuyer.com/394106-kingsto...hx16c9b1rk2-4x
Cheap Case: http://www.ebuyer.com/278340-casecom...91-black-grey-
BeQuiet 300W PSU: http://www.ebuyer.com/247713-be-quie...300w-psu-bn103
1TB Toshiba HDD: http://www.ebuyer.com/393828-toshiba...ive-dt01aca100
Basic DVD writer: http://www.ebuyer.com/410561-liteon-...ive-ihas120-04

Total Cost: £229!

The whole lot together costs exactly the same as the Acer, but with a better CPU and larger hard drive, but slightly less memory. Add the Windows license, and it'll be £295, which is pretty good for the specs.


You could build cheaper than that by replacing the CPU and mobo with:

Athlon II X3 (triple core): http://www.ebuyer.com/238326-amd-ath...-adx450wfgmbox
MSI AM3+ Motherboard: http://www.ebuyer.com/290071-msi-760...-760gm-p23-fx-

which would be £20 cheaper over all, and you could also move down to a 500GB hard drive to save another £10ish.

[Steph~]

Thank you pointing out the options. Building a system myself is quite tempting but I have not too much time at hand and discovering that pre-built budget system can actually be cheaper is not encouraging me to go down that route.

Is there any advantage of the A6-3670K over the FX-6100? Isn't the A6-3670K even older than the FX-6100 and has been discontinued by AMD. Furthermore, I could get the FX-6100 system for £220 already.

[scaryjim]

The A6 and FX CPUs are very different architectures. For some tasks, the A6 may be faster, particularly lightly threaded tasks (one of the big problems with the first gen FX CPUs was they were good with lots of thread but bad with only a few). You suggest that NaturallySpeaking is in fact lightly threaded (if it only uses 2 cores) so the A6 may be better for that task! If that is the case, the Athlon II X3 would be faster still, and is a cheaper option.

The other thing with the A6 is that it will be a better balanced system (the A6 has a pretty good integrated graphics chip - much better than on the cheap motherboards for the FX), so it should be better for general use. It will also use less power (the A6 is more energy efficient than the FX series), and the ASUS motherboard I've suggested in the self-build is probably of higher quality than the one FreshTech are using

I couldn't find the details for that FreshTech system on their website, but if they're including an FX6100 and are only charging £220 it means they've cut corners elsewhere - I imagine they're using a cheap no-brand PSU, which is frankly asking for trouble. The big advantage of building yourself is that you know *exactly* what's gone into the rig - buying a pre-built, particularly from a smaller company, you can never be sure that they've used the best quality components. If it was possible to build a high quality rig like that for £220 (or even £300 including Windows license), don't you think Dell, HP, Lenovo etc. would all be doing it? Particularly when they can bulk-buy Windows lisences and get them cheaper? If it was possible every big name system integrator would be offering hex-core units at £300 or less!

[very deli reef]

I imagine they're using a cheap no-brand PSU, which is frankly asking for trouble.

Could you explain some of the risks of going with a cheap no-brand PSU? I think it would encourage the OP to think carefully about buying the FreshTech system.

[MrJim]

I would like to hear your qualified advice about both system, in particular if you are using speech recognition software.

In my experience with Naturally Speaking, the quality of the sound card (particularly signal to noise ratio), & the headset / mic used most notably affect recognition accuracy. The problem with going with a very cheap motherboard, is that you tend to get a very cheap audio system. You could of course add a better quality sound card, I know many of the Asus range are well reviewed. Nuance publish a list of recommended headsets & mics on their website, which is a useful guide when selecting an appropriate one.

[scaryjim]

Could you explain some of the risks of going with a cheap no-brand PSU? I think it would encourage the OP to think carefully about buying the FreshTech system.

Well, a quick forum search for "cheap PSU" will turn up plenty of threads highlighting the dangers of cheap PSUs.

Basically, a cheap no-brand PSU will probably advertise itself as providing 600W+ and with lots of safety features, but cost £20 or less. Such a PSU will typically only provide 300W or less safely, will have bad voltage regulation (i.e. the voltages on the PSU will be significantly above or below the intended value), show high "ripple" (basically the voltages high a small but noticable wave), have poor efficiency, and often skimp on safety features like over-current and over-voltage protection. Cheap PSUs tend to break down more often, are more likely to damage the rest of your PC when they do break down, and can also cause personal injury risks like electric shock and fire. Plus high ripple and poor voltage regulation can cause damage to your PC even if the PSU doesn't go pop. The PSU is absolutely the last component in your computer you should skimp on (my general rule of thumb is to spend around £10 per 100W).

In my experience with Naturally Speaking, the quality of the sound card (particularly signal to noise ratio), & the headset / mic used most notably affect recognition accuracy. The problem with going with a very cheap motherboard, is that you tend to get a very cheap audio system. You could of course add a better quality sound card, I know many of the Asus range are well reviewed. Nuance publish a list of recommended headsets & mics on their website, which is a useful guide when selecting an appropriate one.

Hmmm, that's a really good point. There are some cheap motherboards with decent audio chips, and tbh most onboard sound nowadays is of a reasonable standard - the days of absolutely awful onboard sound seem to have gone. But it's an important consideration if voice recognition is the primary use of this computer.

[Steph~]

I couldn't find the details for that FreshTech system on their website

Here it is: Reaper AMD Bulldozer FX 6100 3.3Ghz Desktop PC 500gb HDD 4gb DDR3 DVD Writer

It certainly comes with a cheap generic PSU. A YouTube review mentioned WinPower.

The system comes with one year warranty. Probably it could work as long as I would replace the PSU after one year.

Of course, it is not high quality. Otherwise it wouldn't be budget. I want it to be solid, i.e. not give up the ghost in a couple of month.

I'm still undecided though. Thanks for your advice.

[scaryjim]

OK, here's my concern - it's listed as having a CIT Reaper case, and a "branded" 500W PSU.

Googling "CIT Reaper" turns up this: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/cit-r...oogle+shopping

That's a case and 500W power supply for £24. Don't touch it.

Or, if you do touch it, throw the nasty cheap PSU away before you turn the system on and replace with with a decent branded 300W PSU, like the BeQuiet I recommended. That'd still only cost you £250, but it'd be far less likely to blow up on you

AFAICT they're desperately trying to clear old hardware out of their warehouse with that offer (I note their initial price was £310 - I reckon £220 is just about break even). The self-build system I suggested is better in pretty much every way - bigger hard drive, better graphics, potentially better CPU depending on workload ... I'm also concerned about what is actually in the FreshTech system: both motherboard and memory have different marketing descriptions compared to the listed specification. That system's cheap because they've taken a moderately priced CPU and put *VERY* cheap components around it. If £220 is about as far as your budget will stretch then you won't get a decent system with an FX 6-core CPU in it. Then again, I'm pretty sure you don't need a 6-Core CPU, and I've given you several options you could go for at a very similar price that will meet your needs and last a lot longer.

If you do go for the FreshTech system, I'm serious about replacing the PSU before you turn the system on. A cheap PSU can take out other components when it blows, and the original FX CPUs could be quite power hungry, putting a lot of strain on a cheap PSU. Plus, even if the PSU does last a year, if the ripple and regulation are bad they will be continually damaging the other components, reducing their lifespan - and that's something that a warranty won't protect you against. As I say, adding on the cost of a decent PSU still leaves you at around £250, which is a decent price for an FX-6100 rig. That'd be a much better option than hoping it'll be OK and dealing with any fallout when it happens

[Steph~]

I have asked FreshTech about the option to modify the configurations including upgrading the PSU. I am waiting already more than 48 hours for response. This is probably indicates that I should stay away from this company.

I am still undecided about the processing power that I should aim for. scaryjim, you might be right that a FX-6100 is too much but I guess it is better to have too much than too little. I have an old Intel Core 2 Duo and will check whether speech recognition works on that one first. If it is not unbearable than also one of the older processors might suffice.

[MrJim]

I have an old Intel Core 2 Duo and will check whether speech recognition works on that one first. If it is not unbearable than also one of the older processors might suffice.

I've used Naturally Speaking 11 on my Core 2 Duo E8400 (3Ghz, 6Mb cache), and it worked very well. I expect you could use your old C2D CPU without problems.

[Steph~]

My Core 2 Duo T8100 is with 2.1Ghz and 3Mb cache a bit weaker but will give it a try see how it goes.

It seems that you are not using DNS11 anymore? How did you go along and if, why did you stop?

[g8ina]

I used to use Dragon Naturally on my old Dell Inspiron 8100 laptop and it was fine.