Be Quiet! Pure Power L8 630W

[Mistrical]

Hey all

I'm considering buying this PSU as it's £63 on Scan (but cheaper on the dreaded ebuyer)
Does anyone have this PSU? I am wondering if they've had any problems. It seems to have a good review on kitguru. Suggestions for a similar product?

I will be using it to power a micro ATX board, core i5 3570K, 1 HDD, 1 SSD and eventually a mid-range graphics card. It shouldn't have any issues with this, 630W is enough, right?

Also, a bit of a noob question - Do these standard size PSUs fit inside micro ATX cases? I am looking to buy the Antec Mini P180.

[WillRock]

It's a somewhat mediocre HEC unit. Not bad, but not good either. Integration quality isn't likeable as you'd expect from HEC, who's been famous over the years for making crappy units (though, they've leveled up with the Cougar GX series, which are solid units).

Spending the extra on a Dark Power Pro 550 (which is a customized FSP Aurum Xilencer) would be much better off.

As for that setup, well, a 450W unit can easily power it.

And yeah, the size of the case doesn't mess with the size of the PSU area.

[Fjo]

As above, you don't need that high a wattage for that system, and Be Quiet! PSUs are just ok.
You don't need to spend so much as a Dark Power model (as good as they are), where a decent Seasonic built supply will be nice and reliable.
I'd suggest:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/550w-...12v-fan-atx-v2
It's enough for what you need, XFX sold but Seasonic internally, and saves you a bit of cash from the Be Quiet!
There are some power supplies longer than others, but if you see one you'll notice it at the time from the image. A standard size ATX PSU will fit in any case.

[Mistrical]

As for that setup, well, a 450W unit can easily power it.

Thankyou for your help. Unfortunately that PSU is slightly out of my price range. Can you suggest anything better than the Pure Power L8 that's around the £70 mark and is semi or fully modular?

I know not to skimp on a decent power supply, but a budget's a budget

[Fjo]

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/520w-...et-fan-atx-psu
Better than the Be Quiet!, Seasonic - so very reliable, hybrid-modular, enough power for what you need, £71.42.

It's got a fantastic review on JonnyGuru too, which is one of THE sites for PSU reviews.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory5&reid=185 (Page 5 of 5)

[WillRock]

Be Quiet! PSUs are just ok.

It comes down on model. High wattage DPP 10 series are customized SeaSonic Platinum units, which are great PSU's. While Pure Powers are, as I mentioned before, not so good HEC units.

You don't need to spend so much as a Dark Power model (as good as they are), where a decent Seasonic built supply will be nice and reliable.

Yes, however the fan grill, fit and finish etc. are the reason why it's expensive.

It's enough for what you need, XFX sold but Seasonic internally, and saves you a bit of cash from the Be Quiet!

The units you suggested are both based on S12/M12-II, which is, while decent, a pretty old platform with no DC-DC converters.

Thankyou for your help. Unfortunately that PSU is slightly out of my price range. Can you suggest anything better than the Pure Power L8 that's around the £70 mark and is semi or fully modular?

I know not to skimp on a decent power supply, but a budget's a budget

You can go with a True Power New 750 which is built on a superior platform to the S12/M12-II units. You don't need that much power though it sells for £70 on Scan. If you can find it's 550W version in stock somewhere, it'd be better off as it's a more balanced unit (but has been discontinued).

I'd still say spend a bit more and get a better unit from the ground up. The XFX XXX 750 would be a solid choice. It's based on the same platform as the PC P&C Silencer 760/910 units, and would be a good long term choice (not that you'd need more wattage, but because it's a more robust, more efficient unit).

[Fjo]

It comes down on model. High wattage DPP 10 series are customized SeaSonic Platinum units, which are great PSU's. While Pure Powers are, as I mentioned before, not so good HEC units.

They are, and they're much more expensive for it. At this level, and this budget, they don't come into it and we're left with the HEC units.

Yes, however the fan grill, fit and finish etc. are the reason why it's expensive.

As is much the case with the majority of units that use Seasonic internals. It's not cheap and nasty PSUs that use Seasonic, and typically that's reflected in the external design. For £50+, between 400W and 750W you'd expect it to be.

The units you suggested are both based on S12/M12-II, which is, while decent, a pretty old platform with no DC-DC converters.

It's still better than most on the market, even more so at this price point. Assuming OP wants to buy from Scan too, they're also in stock - maybe this will be confirmed. Some of the higher wattage models based on this platform do use DC-DC as well, but it's like your DPP 10 point above - not at this level. However, DC-DC circuitry is not the be all and end all of quality, and in an otherwise decent build at ~550W, not having it isn't a problem. The platform is very stable, efficient and reliable, as the reviews attest.

You can go with a True Power New 750 which is built on a superior platform to the S12/M12-II units. You don't need that much power though it sells for £70 on Scan. If you can find it's 550W version in stock somewhere, it'd be better off as it's a more balanced unit (but has been discontinued).

I'd still say spend a bit more and get a better unit from the ground up. The XFX XXX 750 would be a solid choice. It's based on the same platform as the PC P&C Silencer 760/910 units, and would be a good long term choice (not that you'd need more wattage, but because it's a more robust, more efficient unit).

Afaik, the XFX 750W XXX Edition is based on the Seasonic M12D.

The True Power 750W (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/750w-...eps-12v-atx-v2) is very good, and i've recommended it before. Unless there are hefty upgrades already planned though, it's overkill - Same for any 750W supply, including the XFX models.

As WillRock mentioned above, the current system as outlined is unlikely to draw more than ~400-450W. PSUs typically peak in efficiency around the 75% region. Thus, a 750W partially negates its bonuses elsewhere if it's barely half used at system load. Without a planned necessity in the near future, i wouldn't recommend less than a 450W supply and no more than a 600W (tops). Sticking to the 500-550W mark is ideal in this case.

I'd still suggest:
Modular:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/520w-...et-fan-atx-psu
Fixed cabling:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/550w-...12v-fan-atx-v2
If you want what's in stock at Scan now. Let us know otherwise and you can be better helped, Mistrical.

[dacads]

The OCZ ZT 550w would be fit for the bill and yes it is fully modular

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/550w-...r-warranty-psu

[WillRock]

They are, and they're much more expensive for it.

At this level, and this budget, they don't come into it and we're left with the HEC units.

Well obviously as he isn't looking for that kind of unit, I was giving an example.

The DPP 550 is only a few quids more and would be a greater choice as I said before.

As is much the case with the majority of units that use Seasonic internals. It's not cheap and nasty PSUs that use Seasonic, and typically that's reflected in the external design. For £50+, between 400W and 750W you'd expect it to be.

Being SeaSonic made doesn't make every unit worthwhile. You need to look at the SMPS topology, not the brand or external looks.

It's still better than most on the market, even more so at this price point.

Yes, but the units it's better than aren't in the same class.

Some of the higher wattage models based on this platform do use DC-DC as well

There's no DC-DC on M12/S12-II. It's the M12D and S12D that have it, which is a more modern, vastly superior platform.

Afaik, the XFX 750W XXX Edition is based on the Seasonic M12D

It is. It's based on the same platform as the Silencer 760/910 units, which are also M12D.

However, DC-DC circuitry is not the be all and end all of quality, and in an otherwise decent build at ~550W, not having it isn't a problem. The platform is very stable, efficient and reliable, as the reviews attest.

The True Power 750W (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/750w-...eps-12v-atx-v2) is very good, and i've recommended it before. Unless there are hefty upgrades already planned though, it's overkill - Same for any 750W supply, including the XFX models.

I'd still suggest:
Modular:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/520w-...et-fan-atx-psu

As WillRock mentioned above, the current system as outlined is unlikely to draw more than ~400-450W. PSUs typically peak in efficiency around the 75% region. Thus, a 750W partially negates its bonuses elsewhere if it's barely half used at system load. Without a planned necessity in the near future, i wouldn't recommend less than a 450W supply and no more than a 600W (tops). Sticking to the 500-550W mark is ideal in this case.

Those reviews are old, and the M12 is selling at the same price as the True Power New. It'd be silly to get the M12-520 over the TPN. The M12 is group regulated, not independant like the TPN. It's less efficient, built weaker on a single layer PCB (the TPN is obviously multi) and performs worse.

While it's more power than he needs, it won't be significantly less efficient due to the more modern topology with DC-DC. And idle efficiency is what matters. Most the time machines idle. They don't always work at full load.

Also, the efficiency difference between each is so little that it won't dissipate a sigfinicant amount of less heat.

You aren't really saving anything in this case.

Also;

http://hardocp.com/article/2011/10/0...n_buying_psu/2

The True Power New is easily a better choice. The much more robust topology speaks for itself, so does the higher performance.

This is a much newer review of the same old M12/S12-II. Look at the topology and the results.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/P...K3_400W/4.html

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/P...3_400W/10.html

And this one is the TPN:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory3&reid=140

And well, you know it's pointless to just go to the last page and look at the score. Like I said, look at the design and performance. It's the better PSU and choice. Don't make the guy do a worse decision.

[Fjo]

You seem to be taking it as a bit of an attack, and "Don't make the guy do a worse decision", isn't very pleasant - reads at best as an insistence that you're the only one who could possibly be right, and worse as an accusation that i've anything other than the best interests when offering help or recommendations. I don't appreciate it, just so you know.
I wasn't actually disagreeing with you on most points, i just don't think recommending a PSU rated far higher than is needed is such a good idea, unless it provides reason for purchase elsewhere. And if you look around here, that's the way many people think (that in itself doesn't make it right, but it is actually valid).
We're also starting to stray a bit. Regardless of what's on the market elsewhere for whatever price (as we've both highlighted), Mistrical has given us a few pieces of pertinent info, namely:
There's a budget - ~£70.
His system isn't likely to draw any more than ~450W.
He'd like it modular.
He may or may not want to only buy from Scan (and maybe doesn't want to wait for stock), but until he comes back to us we can't be sure. For now, i'll assume this is the preferred case as i've found it often is on these forums.

The budget - as is often the case - is potentially limiting, more so if Scan is the only option.
For ~£70, i agree that the Antec True Power New is one of the best PSUs Scan has in stock atm, but only where 750W is needed, and 750W is far more than is needed here. On the other hand, the Seasonic M12II-520 may not be quite as high build-quality wise, but at this price it's still better than most, and it is in pretty much the perfect wattage region for what's needed in this case.

Different sites are going to review at different times, have slightly varying experiences and end with slightly varying results for the same hardware (or similar hardware / base designs) - that's a given, and can make it difficult to properly compare models that only certain sites have looked at. For now, if we just look at JonnyGuru (known to be particularly reliable for PSU reviews) for a degree of consistency, we can see that both the Antec 750W and the Seasonic M211 rate very highly. There's not a huge time difference between reviews (so the market won't have changed a whole lot and influenced opinion / requirement) - the Antec in Mar '09, the Seasonic in Apr '10, and each PSU gets looked at in much the same way. JonnyGuru also has reviews for the exact models in and out that we're each respectively recommending.
Antec: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=140
Seasonic: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=185

While it's more power than he needs, it won't be significantly less efficient due to the more modern topology with DC-DC. And idle efficiency is what matters. Most the time machines idle. They don't always work at full load.

You're absolutely right about the difference in circuitry design, and the True Power is slightly more modern at that, but when we look at the tests:
The Antec averages between 83.4% and 83.6% efficiency across a range of loads, including minimal and maximum.
The Seasonic averages between 85% and 85.3% efficiency across a range of loads, including minimal and maximum. And even maintains 82.3% efficiency at very low load, which many supplies don't quite as well.

The True Power New is easily a better choice. The much more robust topology speaks for itself, so does the higher performance.

Not necessarily. It doesn't even though you might expect it to, and the Seasonic performs just as well, if not slightly better.

Both reviews state that each PSU is well built and to a high standard, internally and externally, even if the Antec uses a slightly newer design - but as i said, you can't just point at one or another difference in design and insist that it automatically makes it better (in fact, even though the Antec is a slightly newer design, JonnyGuru reviews the Seasonic more recently than the Antec, and still comes to these conclusions).
The efficiency ratings speak for themselves. Both supplies are built well, provide reliable, stable power, and both are around the same price.
But the Seasonic does perform slightly better, it fits nicely with the OP's requirements (750W is simply more than he needs, and even if that does only make it marginally less efficient in this particular case, the Antec already performs slightly less well of the two).

Like I said, look at the design and performance. It's the better PSU and choice. Don't make the guy do a worse decision.

Its internal design is a bit better than another design that's better than most on the market below £100, yes. It's not the better PSU though, even more so for the requirements in this particular case.
If Mistrical needed anywhere close to 750W, it would of course be the better of the two, and i wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Antec too. He doesn't though, and they're both basically the same price (lower wattage and slightly older design doesn't mean it's overpriced if it performs better in other ways).

He could go for either and be quite happy. He could go for dacads' suggested OCZ and likely feel much the same. In fact, he could just get the Be Quiet! he found. But if you're going to argue the toss, WillRock, and suggest other people are trying to be misleading, you ought to have something solid to back it up.

I look forward to Mistrical's next input And half expect him to have just bought pre-built system after all this.

[Mistrical]

Oh dear, I hope I haven't started an argument. All your comments and opinions are greatly appreciated and are very useful, so please don't be offensive or offended.

Just to confirm, I am looking for a modular or semi-modular unit. I've been doing a bit of my own research and understand a lot more about PSUs now. I have read up about how different rail configurations favor different systems and how most PSUs are just rebranded or customized units from the likes of FSP, Delta, Seasonic, HEC and CWT. This website is awesome btw: http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page541.htm

At the moment, I have my eyes on the Antec True Power New. I am not limited to buying from Scan, and I could stretch my budget a little if convinced. One of the main reasons I went for the Be Quiet Pure Power in the first place is that it was recommended in CustomPC magazine and Be Quiet are known for their quiet PSUs.

[D1DM]

How about:
Seasonic G-550 (£77 @ OCUK)
http://skinflint.co.uk/830688
Apparently a cost reduced version of the X series, so a modern internal design, only a semi-modular design (vs fully modular), budget dual ball bearing fan rather than a high end DBB, probably as quiet as the S12II/M12II Bronze though.

[Fjo]

Oh dear, I hope I haven't started an argument. All your comments and opinions are greatly appreciated and are very useful, so please don't be offensive or offended.

Not at all, we're all here trying to be helpful in our suggestions and there's often a bit of debate. I just don't appreciate anyone implying i'm being intentionally misleading for any reason. It rubs me up the wrong way a little is all.

Just to confirm, I am looking for a modular or semi-modular unit. I've been doing a bit of my own research and understand a lot more about PSUs now. I have read up about how different rail configurations favor different systems and how most PSUs are just rebranded or customized units from the likes of FSP, Delta, Seasonic, HEC and CWT. This website is awesome btw: http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page541.htm

You're going about this in entirely the right way. By looking around and taking in various sources, it's by far the best way for you learn what you can, so that now and later you can better make your own informed decision. That site is indeed very good, as a lot of people don't always realise just what's inside their PC really. "The more you know", you know?

At the moment, I have my eyes on the Antec True Power New. I am not limited to buying from Scan, and I could stretch my budget a little if convinced. One of the main reasons I went for the Be Quiet Pure Power in the first place is that it was recommended in CustomPC magazine and Be Quiet are known for their quiet PSUs.

That Antec is a very good PSU - as we've said, it is a little more power than you need to start with but that's not the end of the world and gives you plenty of room for expansion/upgrades in the future. It also has a reasonable warranty according to Scan, which is something you should always consider. The Be Quiet! was never a bad possibility, but for around the same price it's always worth looking into it a bit and comparing what's around. As another example, the G-Series Seasonic D1DM has suggested above is another very capable PSU that would serve you well.
Seasonic G-550: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...23&subcat=2383

Now that we know you don't necessarily require purchase from Scan, i've had a quick look at a few of the other sites i happily enough use for components. Ebuyer's range according to your spec. is a little slim though, but OcUK do indeed have the G-Series suggested by D1DM that i've linked above, and they've also got an Antec High Current Gamer 520W Modular that's very good too:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...23&subcat=1088

[WillRock]

I have read up about how different rail configurations favor different systems

FYI, different rail configs don't favor different systems. Whether a unit is single or multi rail doesn't matter since OCP set points are set up so high you can't shut a modern multi rail unit down. You'd find a lot of incorrect info on the net on this subject. Have a look at this:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3990/

At the moment, I have my eyes on the Antec True Power New. I am not limited to buying from Scan, and I could stretch my budget a little if convinced. One of the main reasons I went for the Be Quiet Pure Power in the first place is that it was recommended in CustomPC magazine and Be Quiet are known for their quiet PSUs.

Any of these units are going to be so silent that you won't be able to hear them over any other part in your machine.

You can either get the TPN, or a Dark Power Pro 550

or...

How about:
Seasonic G-550 (£77 @ OCUK)
http://skinflint.co.uk/830688
Apparently a cost reduced version of the X series, so a modern internal design, only a semi-modular design (vs fully modular), budget dual ball bearing fan rather than a high end DBB, probably as quiet as the S12II/M12II Bronze though.

The G-450 would be better off though they aren't on sale yet. Also, they have a small single layer PCB (which doesn't mean much, but still).

He won't be able to hear it at those kinds of low loads. PSU noise in general isn't an issue with modern units (even if the fan is sleeve bearing).

You seem to be taking it as a bit of an attack, and "Don't make the guy do a worse decision", isn't very pleasant - reads at best as an insistence that you're the only one who could possibly be right, and worse as an accusation that i've anything other than the best interests when offering help or recommendations. I don't appreciate it, just so you know.

No, I'm not. And "Don't make the guy do a worse decision" was a polite way of saying that you're giving him worse advice, not that I'm the only one who's right. Don't know where you got that from. I don't care whether you appreciate it or not. I don't agree with your suggestion because it's clearly INFERIOR. Period. This will be my last waste of time on discussing with you because it doesn't get anywhere. You just keep on changing the subject to something else and don't understand that the TPN is a better choice than M12/S12 II.

i just don't think recommending a PSU rated far higher than is needed is such a good idea, unless it provides reason for purchase elsewhere. And if you look around here, that's the way many people think (that in itself doesn't make it right, but it is actually valid).

It does because the TPN is selling AT THE SAME PRICE as the M12 II. A better 750W unit over a worse 450W PSU.

I'm not stupid or ignorant. I'm not telling him to overkill on PSU, but rather giving him a better option. Having more power than he needs isn't an issue, and I'll repeat, the TPN is built better.

For ~£70, i agree that the Antec True Power New is one of the best PSUs Scan has in stock atm, but only where 750W is needed, and 750W is far more than is needed here. On the other hand, the Seasonic M12II-520 may not be quite as high build-quality wise, but at this price it's still better than most, and it is in pretty much the perfect wattage region for what's needed in this case.

No, the TPN isn't one of the best units on Scan ONLY FOR WHERE 750W is needed. Also for when there isn't an another option, which is why I suggested it.

The M12-520 is old and weaker built, and it's being replaced by G Series. You're beating an OLD and WRONG horse. Just get it this time, please. You're giving him bad advice and offering to spend his money in poor fashion. Don't make both of us tired anymore.

For Not necessarily. It doesn't even though you might expect it to, and the Seasonic performs just as well, if not slightly better.

You don't understand PSU design or know what a double forward topology is. You're just looking at irrelevant things like review scores or when the reviews are done.

Both reviews state that each PSU is well built and to a high standard, internally and externally, even if the Antec uses a slightly newer design - but as i said, you can't just point at one or another difference in design and insist that it automatically makes it better (in fact, even though the Antec is a slightly newer design, JonnyGuru reviews the Seasonic more recently than the Antec, and still comes to these conclusions)

Yes, I can point out a difference and state that the TPN is better because it IS built better. JGuru didn't review the SeaSonic nor the Antec. Oklahoma Wolf did. Do you even know who he is? Or do you just think every review on JGuru.com is done by JGuru himself? These all show that you don't know what you're talking about.

The efficiency ratings speak for themselves. Both supplies are built well, provide reliable, stable power, and both are around the same price.

Efficiency ratings don't mean **** in this case (as I pointed nicely before).

But the Seasonic does perform slightly better

M12-II doesn't perform better than the TPN. At any load the TPN has lower ripple and better cross loading performance. You don't actually look and get the performance charts. You're blindly reading the review and just looking at the points the reviewer points out at the end of the page.

Its internal design is a bit better than another design that's better than most on the market below £100, yes. It's not the better PSU though, even more so for the requirements in this particular case.

It IS the better PSU. How many times do I need to repeat?

If Mistrical needed anywhere close to 750W, it would of course be the better of the two, and i wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Antec too. He doesn't though, and they're both basically the same price (lower wattage and slightly older design doesn't mean it's overpriced if it performs better in other ways).

You have to be silly to think the TPN would be a better choice only if he needed 750W.

More so, M12-II doesn't perform better than the TPN (except for %1-2 better efficiency which doesn't make a significant difference). The TPN regulates better and has better transient/dynamic response.

He could go for either and be quite happy. He could go for dacads' suggested OCZ and likely feel much the same. In fact, he could just get the Be Quiet! he found. But if you're going to argue the toss, WillRock, and suggest other people are trying to be misleading, you ought to have something solid to back it up.

He could, but then he'd have made a worse choice, which I wouldn't like since I'm spending my time trying to help the OP out.

I'm wasn't discussing (now arguing) "the toss". I was pointing out that you're wrong.

And you're not trying to be misleading either. You're being ignorant and giving him worse advice while you don't have a grasp idea on the subject you're on about.

they've got an Antec High Current Gamer 520W Modular that's very good too:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...23&subcat=1088

Which is also an M12-II, you've suggested him the exact same unit in 3 different PSU's.

[Mistrical]

I went with the Antec True Power 750W. I decided that the unit's design and longer warranty made it worthwhile. Admittedly it's overpowered for what I need, but oh well Thanks for your debate and help guys - it has taught me a lot.

/Thread

[technodean]

Custom pc this month has 31 power supplies tested with the Be quiet 530w highly recommended only really being beaten by the seasonic x series @ double the price.