Bush calls for gay marriage ban - WTF?

[malfunction]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3518117.stm

Hopefully this will be another warning sign to anyone that isn't on the far right and will help ensure the Bush is out of office next time around.

On a side note - a 'bit' of bashing for the bit-tech forums is in order - I can't believe some of the comments there and I've totally lost respect for some of their members.

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=52575

(and read the first thread linked in that one too)

It brought out a right rant from me... Hopefully we're a little less frantic here... (Mods - if I shouldn't be bashing the bit-tech forums - or rather some of their members - just remove the offending bits or ask me to and I will... Note that I have expressed my views over on bit-tech so I'm not trying to be two faced here)

Anyway... For my 2p I see absolutely nothing wrong with same sex marriage. If any church (either via the head of that church or the local minister) doesn't want to marry two people of the same sex then that's up to them - it's a private matter - but as for a civil ceremony - why not? Surely it's discrimination to say that gay people cannot marry?

[Slick]

why? I think gay marriages should be banned tbh. It's a religious ceremony to unite a man and a woman, as religion disagrees with homosexuality I'm not sure same sex marriages should be allowed.

By all means allow cival partnerships etc for gay people, which give all the same legal rights as a marriage but I think it should be a seperate thing which both straight and gay people could do.

[floppybootstomp]

I think it's up to the individual Church and Vicar/Priest whether they choose to bless a Gay wedding with a religious ceremony. It wouldn't bother me. Depends on how closely they want to follow the Bible I suppose. I don't know much about any religions except Christianity and Buddhism, and I know precious little about them. I'm wondering how the Jewish and Muslim Faiths would deal with it.

Apart from a religious ceremony, I think a legal type of bonding should be allowed, so that each partner would at least have the same legal rights as within a straight marriage.

[malfunction]

why? I think gay marriages should be banned tbh. It's a religious ceremony to unite a man and a woman, as religion disagrees with homosexuality I'm not sure same sex marriages should be allowed.

By all means allow cival partnerships etc for gay people, which give all the same legal rights as a marriage but I think it should be a seperate thing which both straight and gay people could do.

Have you never heard of civil marriages? It's not just about legal rights... It's about equality. It might be only a concept, an ideal, but denying anyone that is still treating them as a lesser person.

I don't believe that any religon has to condone it or indeed any individual church or minister within that religon even if the religon itself does. But to deny anyone a civil marriage is to enforce inequality... And the right to be married and to call that 'civil union' a marriage is only fair. As for anyone that wants a religous cerimony that's up to them and their religon.

[blockers]

I have to say, im with slick on this one....

Doesnt the catholic church not allow gays?

[malfunction]

I have to say, im with slick on this one....

Doesnt the catholic church not allow gays?

I'm sure the catholic church is against it. It's not the point though. I don't think anyone would be looking for every church (and person) in the land to accept and perform gay marriages. But I do believe that they should be legal - civil cermony as a right and religous ceremony by agreement. Also - why should Bush change the constitution to explicitly prevent them? My (limited) understanding is that the constitution is supposed to be separate from religous beliefs (and is supposed to prevent discrimination of any kind)

[malfunction]

Also - read the bit-tech threads - suprised me to see a lot people actually saying things like homosexuality isn't natural, is against god, etc. Like it's a choice that people make and not a part of who you are... As I said over on bit-tech - why would anyone choose to be homosexual in such a prejudiced world?

[directhex]

on a more serious note, the issue of homosexuality being wrong is mentionned pretty much in only one section of the bible (i.e. Leviticus 18:22) - and is considered almost as dirty and sinful as sewing your fields with 2 types of grain, or wearing underpants with 1% lycra in them (Leviticus 19:19).

It's purely a fear issue - as more civil liberties are granted to real people, the idea of the Church's stranglehold over governmental policy is lost.

Separation of church and state? Pah. The US is one of the most confused fundementalist governments of all.

[Scott]

It's a person's choice who he or she wants to marry. If its the same sex, i dont see who has the right to take that away from anyone.

Not one person, especially Bush should be given the power to do that... ok he makes decisions for the good of the country, but since when does Mr and Mr Smith make the world a bad place?

[DaBeeeenster]

why? I think gay marriages should be banned tbh. It's a religious ceremony to unite a man and a woman, as religion disagrees with homosexuality I'm not sure same sex marriages should be allowed.

By all means allow cival partnerships etc for gay people, which give all the same legal rights as a marriage but I think it should be a seperate thing which both straight and gay people could do.

Ah yes, that great religious ceremony that often takes place...in a registry office.

Doesn't sound very religious to me...

[Rave]

I'm married, although TBH I don't really have any great belief in it as a concept. Nowadays, being married doesn't do much for you, you don't get any tax breaks anymore I don't think, maybe it decreases your car insurance premiums (married = responsible)?

Anyway, before we go and slag off the Americans, I didn't think there was any such thing as a legal gay marriage in Britain. Why aren't we all getting upset about that? I hate Bush as much as anyone, but we should put our own house in order befor we start on anyone else.

Edit: Slick, my wife and I are both atheists, we got married in a Registry Office, religion had precisely zilch to do with our wedding.

Rich :¬)

[directhex]

the point isn't so much that we can't have gay marriage in the uk, but that bush wants to change the constitution to deciseively and permanently ban it from ever taking place - and to place "thou shall not be a fag" next to us ideas such as the right to free speech, to remain silent, and to shoot people.

[Ravens Nest]

I personally think that Gay people should be able to marry each other and have equal rights to straight couples but i do think that it is wrong for them to be allowed to marry in a church.

I dont see a problem with gay people marrying in a registry office though..

But i dont understand G.W.Bush poking his nose in, seems he want to be seen as being holier than thou.

(Slightly off-topic) I find it immensely annoying when religion is altered to suit the times, if it is the word of god it should not be altered to please people that live outside of those laws.

[Elmo]

as has already been said, a wedding can be religious in so many ways, as is practiced by christians, jews, muslims etc all around the world, but it doesn't HAVE to be religious. It's purely a declairation of love for the other person, when you get to the bottom of it, that really is all it is! so why deny 2 people of this declairation just because they're the same sex and something written in a made up, over exaggerated, ancient book somwhere that 2 people of the same sex being together is a "sin" still decide what happens in the world when a large percentage of people dont "believe" in any god or religion, yet simply want to dedicate themselves to someone else?

would you really deny someone that piece of paper with a few signatures on it? Is it REALLY worth all the hooha that people are making? and bush, of all the people in the world does not have that right. Oh, he can try to do it, yeah, but it wont happened.

I dont care how homophobic you are, there's no reason why anyone should deny anyone else in the world of the happiness they seek.

[Punky]

if 2 people love each other, they should be allowed to wed. the fact that the bible or whatever says its wrong is no valid reason to ban same-sex marriage. the US is a mainly christian country, with some far-right bible-bashers right at the top. anything like this really doesn't stand a chance with the current religion-guided government. then again, i somehow doubt this will ever change, which is an awful shame. the running of a country shouldn't be controlled by some book, it should be controlled by the masses.

[Slick]

Ah yes, that great religious ceremony that often takes place...in a registry office.

Doesn't sound very religious to me...

That's why I said civil partnerships should be open to both gay and straight couples so those who are not religious can choose to have that instead of a marriage.