Deporting undesirables

[Brucelles]

Recently France has taken to deporting it’s Roma inhabitants back to Romania and Hungary, where they came from.

The justification is simple. They are a pain in the arse, and most of us in France are sick of them.

French statistics show that crime committed by Roma has risen by around 260% in the past 18 months, and that Roma are disproportionately represented in the criminal classes, with petty theft seemingly occupying the majority.

The other reason they are disliked is that they seem to represent around 90% of the beggars in France. In Paris you can hardly walk without stepping over a Roma beggar with either a small child or an animal as a begging aid. Stories that they simply kill puppies as they lose that cuteness don’t help their case either.

The law is that Roma, as with any of Europes citizens, may freely travel throughout the Eurozone without a visa, but must obtain work or residency permits to stay longer than three months. With work permits hard to come by, most of the estimated 12,000 Roma from eastern Europe are therefore living illegally in unauthorised camps in France. Most earn a living by begging or collecting scrap metals and other goods. As noted, though, a significant number steal or con for a living. I must have seen the found gold ring scam tried dozens of times. Nowadays I point and laugh and the scammers just wander off.
Opinion polls have shown that most French voters consider the Roma a nuisance, so despite public protests from some sections of French society, the government feels it has the backing of the majority to deport the Roma from illegal camps. Mass deportations began after a group of French Roma attacked a police station in July, following an incident where a 22-year-old Roma man was shot driving through a checkpoint. As a response to the violence, 300 Roma camps have been shut down and nearly 1,000 Roma sent back to Romania and Bulgaria.
For me, the government isn’t going far enough. I really, really dislike the filth, the constant attempts to con or steal from me, the fact that it was two Roma women who stole my daughter’s (Gucci) handbag, the cute puppies used as beggar’s bait, the bums who sleep in Dolce & Gabbana’s shop doorway, so that my dog feels the need to investigate every time we pass. I know it’s selfish, but these people ruin Paris by being generally ugly (if not as individuals, then as an eyesore, begging in the wrong place), irritating and frequently criminal. I think deporting them is a good idea.

If they can get a job in 3 months they can stay, but otherwise, why should we keep them?

[kalniel]

So you don't think it's a political cheap shot to try and boost flagging support for Sarkozy?

[TheAnimus]

Ah yes the race card.

He will be banning gay marrage next.

[Brucelles]

So you don't think it's a political cheap shot to try and boost flagging support for Sarkozy?

Yes. I do.

It doesn't change the fact though, that many thousands of immigrants with no work skills have moved to France and set up shop as beggars, thieves and scavengers.

[kalniel]

Yes. I do.

It doesn't change the fact though, that many thousands of immigrants with no work skills have moved to France and set up shop as beggars, thieves and scavengers.

So introduce laws that make thieving etc illegal and enforce them. No need to single out Roma people, if something is illegal it should be illegal no matter who is doing it.

[Sputnik]

I think the UK is the same if not worse, We have these undesirables from all around the globe, Who come here and bring a crimewave with them.
Unless of course they are Russians in which case they are not allowed entry unless they stole huge sums of money from the Russian state and are allowed to stay here for their safety.

I read something recently that said in London there are now 300 spoken languages! I didn't even know there was that many languages or variants of languages.

I would much rather people were allowed in on skill shortage or for good personal reasons like they were married to an English person in their own country for many years(I'm talking Genuine cases and not scam marriages).

[Brucelles]

So introduce laws that make thieving etc illegal and enforce them. No need to single out Roma people, if something is illegal it should be illegal no matter who is doing it.

That would suit me too. Though thieving is already illegal. The problems related to the Roma and theft, though, are unusual:

The kids do a lot of the stealing, and they can't be punished. If caught they are usually released the same day.

I have also seen adults do the stealing and hand off the purse to a kid. Who can't be punished....

They also do the mobbing thing, if a kid gets caught. I have seen around 15 Roma mobbing an American guy who caught a Roma girl with her hand in his pocket. He got away with his wallet, but was pretty shocked. A minute later they had all scattered and were invisible again.

There just aren't enough police to stop this happening, and the kids are just a waste of police resources.

I really don't have a serious issue with beggars. Sometime people have some tough luck, and need even that small level of help, c'est la vie. However, I don't like the idea of people emigrating to somewhere just to avail themselves of a better begging environment. These people knew that they would be homeless in Paris, and sleeping in shop doorways and under bridges and begging by day, and there are literally thousands of them. They are here illegally, so why shouldn't they be sent back?

[Brucelles]

I freely admit that I am motivated by irritation. These people are like flies on your picnic. There are probably loads of quiet industrious ones who never pee in the doorway to my apartment, but I never see them; just hundreds a day getting up my nose.

[oolon]

The problem there did seem quite bad when I visited Paris last year, I lost count the number of times I was asked "Do you speak english", in the Guard Du Nord. The was as organised pack there of 6 girls being run by an elderly lady. Eventally I took to ironically saying "No".

Within 5 minutes of each other while walking along the river, we were hit up by the "gold" ring trick twice, thanks to Terry Pratchet (Going postal) I realised what was happening so played along to look at the ring and then declared it was not gold and sent the person on their way, when it happened the second time, with a parting comment, someone is dropping alot of gold rings today! someone just found one 5 minutes ago.

The people do have right to be there though, its the cheating and begging that is the problem, The use of underage children to beg should have the controlling adults in court and the children in care. I expect that would stop them, as soon as they start losing their slaves^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hchildren.

[Sputnik]

So introduce laws that make thieving etc illegal and enforce them. No need to single out Roma people, if something is illegal it should be illegal no matter who is doing it.

I entirely agree but, The softly softly punishments are not doing anything to stop crime. Often crimes are dismissed as minor but, to the victims it is not such a trivial matter and everytime these people get off with a small crime the next crime they commit gets a bit worse until they are doing major crimes.

[kalniel]

I entirely agree but, The softly softly punishments are not doing anything to stop crime. Often crimes are dismissed as minor but, to the victims it is not such a trivial matter and everytime these people get off with a small crime the next crime they commit gets a bit worse until they are doing major crimes.

Finding the right way to tackle crime is another discussion - deportation could even be the best way of dealing with it.. but you deport the criminals, not a whole people for the crimes of a sub-portion.

[Sputnik]

Finding the right way to tackle crime is another discussion - deportation could even be the best way of dealing with it.. but you deport the criminals, not a whole people for the crimes of a sub-portion.

I agree with that.

The problem is, When a certain nationality is seen as a criminal race. It starts a racial hatred towards people of that nationality.

Propaganda is a very powerful and dangerous tool.

[TheAnimus]

If the situation with the pick pocketing and mugging is so sevire, which it must be to merrit deportation on grounds of race, then how about some kind of task force?

Maybe the police could enforce the laws already on the books?

[Lucio]

I'm sorry but racism is racism, even when you have evidence to support your facts, and mass deportation of a single ethnic group is wrong.

If the law's are applied fairly to *everyone* regardless of race or origin (e.g. all immigrants can only stay if they get work permits and there's a major investigation into all people within a geographic area), then that's different.

As you've written it, it's morally wrong IMO

[Brucelles]

The point that Sarkozy was making was that police resources are limited and we know where most of the worst suspects are gathered together. It makes sense to check the Roma camps first.

It's not racism, but it is profiling.

Think about it; Roma compose less than 0.8% of France's population at any one time, yet they perpetrate over 20% of the crime. This makes them overwhelmingly more likely to be a criminal than any other easily identifiable group. It would be almost irresponsible not to take those figures into account.

If you were going mushroom picking would you head for Heathrow's long-term car park or the nearest grassy field?

[Lee H]

If you were going mushroom picking would you head for Heathrow's long-term car park or the nearest grassy field?

My back garden - there are loads of mushrooms growing all over it at the moment

Anyway back on topic, I reckon he's right about what he's doing but he's going about it the wrong way. it's like taking a sledge-hammer to open a walnut. It works but it's gonna be messy.

Profiling is all part and parcel of policing todays society and we see it all the time in the UK and I expect that the UK will start to use it more once there are the planned cutbacks for the police forces as it helps to tackle crime with a limited amount of resources.